Saints in disarray

[BigMart]

Geelong, Collingwood and Geelong have all changed senior coaches since the first flag, all had significant changes in their coaching depts and

I'm not just talking onfield management here....

I believe our entire football department... From CEO to Manager, to recruitment and development, media and marketing, player leadership, coaching (not just senior position), welfare and list/Salary Cap management has had serious aspects of mismanagement.

We are an unstable club, indicating a lack of leadership through a failure to deliver a successful product.

[maverick]

Did I imagine Clarkson say he had to completely rebuild the list when he got there, did they not win 5 games in his first year at the club, 4 games the year before? Did they not get two priority picks?

Did the Pies not rebuild their list in 2004/05?

Or is history being re-written here?

[BigMart]

Didn't answer the question

Again....

Why did they not bottom out after winning a GF in 2008?! We played them in the 2008 prelim....

What have hey done better.... I would say a lot of things....

Same with Geelong

Carlton were a shambles
3 number one picks in a row....and a number two pick
Why haven't they automatically won a GF?

[Cairnsman]

Geelong and Swans had coaching changes however it was part of a very well managed succession plan and both of the incoming coaches did not make wholesale changes as is the case with the old system of sacking coaches and the new coach wanting to change so much that it usually takes up to 2 to know if the new way of doing business is going to take hold and bring the ultimate success. I am not ready to say the club is unstable based on some media events, I am prepared to say that there are some unstable supporters who will think every coach we have is useless after a loss.

[Richter]

No one answered the question....

Why haven't Geelong (GF 2007, 8, 9, 11), Sydney (GF 2005, 6, 12), Hawthorn (GF 2008, 2012, 2013), Collingwood (GF 2010, 11)

Why hasen't those clubs have to rebuild?! Didn't ask how they got there? Asked why they have NOT bottomed out within THREE years of making a GF

Not sure what point you are making? It's pretty well known that we have been a club whose management has not been as good as those that you mention. We have more in common with the likes of Brisbane, Melbourne, Port Adelaide and the Bulldogs.

The first two have had sustained periods of bottoming out, but the latter two shallow ones.

Our challenge is to ensure we are more like Port (GFs in 2004, 2007 ----> bottom 4 in 2008, 2011 ----> finals in 2013) than Melbourne (finals in 2006 -----> none since) or Brisbane (triple premiers 2001-3 -----> no finals appearances for a decade since 2004).

[maverick]

Flawed question.
Hawks won in their first year of contending 2008, (2004 for us)
Contended again in 2011 (2008 for us)
Made GF in 2012 (2009 for us)
GF and premiership in 2013 (2010 for us).
They just snagged a couple and

In 2-3 years they will be like us...toast...look at their list...

The Pies are on the same track....

[BigMart]

You don't need the media to report problems, they are pretty evident....

You are admitting Geelong and Sydney were well managed.... Do you consider our CEO sitting in his office at 9pm wondering HTF a coach who is amongst the highest rated in the industry had quit unexpectedly to relocate to Freo??

Good management? Could list a dozen stuff ups

One.... Posted in 2009

In 2009 the basic swapping (forget the somantics) of Ball for Lovett.... Was farcical for me, I posted it at the time.... I can't believe
We traded pick 16 for a 27yo drunken knob on a 1M contract who was despised at Essendon
Gave up
A former captain B&F and intelligent, articulate and respected figure and received NOTHING!!!

Ironically he opposed us and defeated us 12 months later

A decision that will haunt the club for years IMO.

[Cairnsman]

Flawed question.
Hawks won in their first year of contending 2008, (2004 for us)
Contended again in 2011 (2008 for us)
Made GF in 2012 (2009 for us)
GF and premiership in 2013 (2010 for us).
They just snagged a couple and

In 2-3 years they will be like us...toast...look at their list...

The Pies are on the same track....

Absolutely this!

And what will happen to everyone's argument next year if say Geelong slide down the ladder significantly?

Where will the hindsighters stand then?

Where will the hindsighers stand when Hawthorn race backwards down the ladder?

Equalisation gets everyone eventually one way or the other. We had 10 years of success without a flag and that will always provide doomsayers and hindsighters with a vehicle to push their agendas.

[FQF]

Flawed question.
Hawks won in their first year of contending 2008, (2004 for us)
Contended again in 2011 (2008 for us)
Made GF in 2012 (2009 for us)
GF and premiership in 2013 (2010 for us).
They just snagged a couple and

In 2-3 years they will be like us...toast...look at their list...

The Pies are on the same track....

Absolutely this!

And what will happen to everyone's argument next year if say Geelong slide down the ladder significantly?

Where will the hindsighters stand then?

Where will the hindsighers stand when Hawthorn race backwards down the ladder?

Equalisation gets everyone eventually one way or the other. We had 10 years of success without a flag and that will always provide doomsayers and hindsighters with a vehicle to push their agendas.

Not Sydney

[chook23]

Development coach and welfare......................jaymie Graham has resigned

[BigMart]

I call it

Being a realist

Why not address the Carlton equalised yet, Richmond, Melbourne.... They bottomed ot years ago?

Why are Geelong go into slide?

They have lost Ablett, Thompson, Scarlett, Ling, Ottens, Harley.... Coach, legends, captains..

Prelims, VFL team full of kids flying.... They have kids coming through annually..... They will NOT slide

That was predicted in 2011... When they won

Hawthorn ditto....

[Kickit]

Development coach and welfare......................jaymie Graham has resigned

resigned or re-signed?

[Scollop]

What is the one thing that Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood and Swans all have in common regarding their recent flags..?

Stability and consistency in their coaching departments.

The don't have a d1ckhead fringe that want to sack the coach every couple of years.

The model for coaching structures and succession plans implemented by said clubs is progressive and the new paradigm.

So yes, good management wins flags.

+1 Gazillion

[plugger66]

I call it

Being a realist

Why not address the Carlton equalised yet, Richmond, Melbourne.... They bottomed ot years ago?

Why are Geelong go into slide?

They have lost Ablett, Thompson, Scarlett, Ling, Ottens, Harley.... Coach, legends, captains..

Prelims, VFL team full of kids flying.... They have kids coming through annually..... They will NOT slide

That was predicted in 2011... When they won

Hawthorn ditto....

What is your point apart from telling all of us you called something. Your ego is amazing. You keep mentioning sides that won flags. We didnt. It causes issues. Players dont play for less to stay together. Supporters arent as happy. We are like the WB. They dropped down the ladder quickly. It happens. it happened to the Hawks and the Pies as well but you want to pick dates that suit some point which I am yet to get.

[Dave McNamara]

Well said Beno88 that is the system

As for the negative on Seaford look around people .

Flightplan -Essendon Industrial wasteland /Airport wind out there unreal nothing around it

Lexus Centre /Gosch's paddock_collingwood that's what it is guys a paddock nothing but concrete around Lexus Centre

Waverley Park -Mirvacvil- Hawthorn surrounded by boxes of houses can't have closed training sessions there

Give me a break they are what they are training facilities not restaurants

How about some positive posts I think there will be a lot of smiles shortly in "Pelchen I trust"

and don't forget Richmond out at Craigieburn

What they said!!!


And don't forget,
Crones and Nought Power have to drink brown water (belch!).
Teddies are in steamy, cliquey Brisboring.
The Wogans are stuck on some god-forsaken freeway-come-parking-lot hemmed in by Jihardists towing their fishing boats behind their Landcruisers and Zils.
Apparently there's also yet two other irrelevant teams somewhere out there, about half way to Sud Afrika Iast I Hird.



All will be well!

It's the silly season folks. Read slow/ no footy news. No schoolgirls this time. So the media has to latch onto something else Saints-related... and this is the best they can come up with.

Why?

Because deep down, they (the media) know that we are the only interesting club in the competition. Always have been.

Keep the faith Saintsationalists.

Go you Saintas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

[Scollop]

If players want to be part of a premiership team (assuming teams window is open) maybe they should play for less to stay together

Or...if players have been told that the club needs to plan and rebuild the playing list, and some senior players with massive egos are not happy...maybe the should consider pissing off or just shut up and htfu

[bergholt]

Why haven't Geelong (GF 2007, 8, 9, 11), Sydney (GF 2005, 6, 12), Hawthorn (GF 2008, 2012, 2013), Collingwood (GF 2010, 11)

Why hasen't those clubs have to rebuild?! Didn't ask how they got there? Asked why they have NOT bottomed out within THREE years of making a GF

They have more money than us.

It's not massively complicated. If you have money then you can afford to do better scouting, better recruitment, better player development, better coaching, better injury management, better marketing campaigns, better media relations.

We don't have much money, so any time we spend in one of those areas, we have to take away from another. It sucks but that's the way it is.

[BigMart]

Why do they have more money?!

[maverick]

Their supporters support the club

[Kickit]

Why do they have more money?!

The catering deal at Cardinia Park for starters.
They make more money from the catering than they do at the gate, and they make more at the gate at Cardinia park than they ( and StKilda ) do at Etiahad.

[BigMart]

Club is responsible for selling its brand for membership (how you actually support the club, not defending ineptness)

Club made the Etihad deal

Club hires football dept coaches, recruitment and development staff.... Who then build the list

Club handles indiscretions

Club makes decision to bail on Tassie to play more games (vs Port and Freo) at Etihad... At a cost

Club opposed a high risk (actually low risk) recruitment due to cold feet..... But back flipped on process at huge cost 12 months later....

Club allowed the ridiculous scenario of no compensation for Luke Ball.... A game of chicken Collingwood won and laughed about...

Club could not negotiate an outcome with Kingston and relocated... First to Frankston, then to Seaford....

What they did well

Keep a number of young stars loyal 2002-2009 even though rivals circled numerously to feed off is

Coach selection process in 2006 was very thorough and a good outcome was reached

Hired a very good fitness person Dave Misson (but lost him)

The New Zealand idea was very good.

Put together tw o very good seasons in different circumstances....

[bergholt]

Why do they have more money?!

Serious?

Geelong have a great stadium deal and a massive and focused supporter base, in a one-team town, so sponsorship is easy.

Sydney are in a two-team town with a huge amount of corporate dollars flowing around.

Hawthorn have a large supporter base thanks to past success, and traditionally strong corporate connections.

Collingwood have the largest supporter base in the country.

We are one of the smallest and least successful teams in a ten team state. We're poor and always will be.

[dragit]

Let's face it Marto, you know we're a s*** club, you should just follow someone else, one of the good clubs.

[plugger66]

Let's face it Marto, you know we're a s*** club, you should just follow someone else, one of the good clubs.

To hard to be negative all the time if you do that but he would try. Apparently people not being negative like him are the reason our club has issues even though I doubt any play, any are on the board, many if any sponsor the club but to be a better club you must find faults and say them on here. The amazing thing is he thinks we dont know the club has faults. We are the Saints and everyone over the age of 25 knows the club has issues.

[Austinnn]

Cairnsman, you and might have had political disagreements, but hats off to you for a positive incisive and realistic post. Bang on the money.

The club is going to be fine. As for the folks trying to stir up support for their doomsday moaning, you and people like you have held the club back too long. Grow a pair and be patient. If you want to compare us to the Pies, go out there and recruit an extra 40,000 paid up members.

Don't sit on your arse and moan that the club isn't doing enough; a club is only as strong as its support; if its support is weak, the club will be weak. And supporters publicly crying that the club is a shambles is hardly going to get us more members. In fact it's about the weakest act possible as a supporter.