What I reckon about 2014...

[dragit]

I know you just trying to have a go Dragit.... You're not a fan

Sorry mate, I honestly don't mean to hinder discussion… It's a good topic… I probably got a little caught up in Luke Parker fever…

I think the 'less injuries', 'more development', 'retire 32+'s' and our desperate need for a full back or two is a given…

18 months ago looking at our list, I reckon we pretty much needed to replace every line on the ground except small forwards and medium defenders…

Most pressing was Key backs and another genuine ruck option.

We got the ruck in Hickey, but I think we really should have tried a mature Key defender or two from a lower level if not in a trade… Tippett or similar would have been worth the risk.

Lee was a good get when you look at how long Roo might have left… White looks pretty speculative and years off.

We've added some midfielders, but no genuine stars, maybe Wright? (I think he is exactly what we were hoping for from Cripps)

I agree with Pluggs on keeping only one of CJ & Lenny, really hoping it's Lenny…

Newnes & Ross need to start really getting midfield time into them next year… hopefully Curren has had enough pre-season's now to play in there too.

I am worried about Gwilts pace… and would certainly favour Gilbert out of the two… Geary, Roberton, Fisher, Dempster pick themselves… If we get a FB, how do we get desperately needed experience into Webster, Wright, Dunell? along with Gilbert, Gwilt & Ray… ?

Funny how we've lost 5 or so back flankers (Goddard, Gram, Clarke, Peake, Cripps) and we still have too many.

Riewoldt was so damn good earlier this year but seems to only have 10 - 15 good weeks before his knee really troubles him. I would like to see him managed a little differently… routinely rested before he starts looking proppy… play 3 or 4, miss 1. Would be nice for him to finish a year off strongly rather than hanging on for dear life for the last 6 weeks…

I don't think GWS are genuinely willing to trade pick 1, but if they were I hope we are in the frame… If we could somehow get picks 1 & 3 this year… the future could become very exciting all of a sudden.

TDL I imagine would be given a 2 year deal… Will they hold onto Saad?

(-7) OUTS: Blake, Milne, Kosi, CJ, Lever, Ledger, CJ

(+1)UPGRADE: Curren

(+1)FA: FB

(+5)DRAFT

Trades are anyone's guess with the Pelican floating around.

These guys need to show a bit next year or face the chop - Siposs, TDL, Maister, Dunell, Milera

[rodgerfox]

I reckon 2014 is a tank year.

We need two more good draft picks.

If we don't get 4 of our 2016 'top 6' from this year's and next year's draft we're going to delay our climb further and further.


2014 should be about learning, development, and only winning enough games to show some potential - but not impact the hope of getting 2 high draft picks.

[Middo]

Dal for Conca you're dreaming.....Conca just about passed Dal now and has a great future and Tiges wont let him go .

[joffaboy]

I reckon 2014 is a tank year.

We need two more good draft picks.

If we don't get 4 of our 2016 'top 6' from this year's and next year's draft we're going to delay our climb further and further.


2014 should be about learning, development, and only winning enough games to show some potential - but not impact the hope of getting 2 high draft picks.

Pelcen indicated this at the meeting the other night.

Stated 2014 would be as bad or worse than 2013.

So you are spot on.

[dragit]

I reckon 2014 is a tank year.

We need two more good draft picks.

If we don't get 4 of our 2016 'top 6' from this year's and next year's draft we're going to delay our climb further and further.


2014 should be about learning, development, and only winning enough games to show some potential - but not impact the hope of getting 2 high draft picks.

Pelcen indicated this at the meeting the other night.

Stated 2014 would be as bad or worse than 2013.

So you are spot on.

Except that I don't think we'll need to throw any games to get a top 3 pick… It will be ugly, but not tanking.

[Kickit]

I think its very important to plug the full back hole, now, not in 4 seasons time.
Young players need to get their hands on the ball to develop. Nothing is going to happen if they get 50 games with 5 touches a game.
If our opponents just need to get the ball and torp it to their forward line to kick goals, no-one is developing at all except the poor shortarse playing on the gorilla.

Apart from that I don't want us to go trying for clever Dustin Martin trades or anything. Just draft the best available.

[jonesy]

As a saints supporter it's about copping your medicine for the next three years and building another powerful decade around high end draft picks.
In the meantime no analysis paralysis,pulling out hair, criss crossing each week in differing opinions on kids development stages,etc. Just buy your membership, put some focus back into your forgotten pastimes,and get ready for an assault on the 2017-2024 premierships.

Put your trust into pelican and waters building and developing a squad. Pelican has past form, Watters is unproven but it is a supposed strength of his,so give him his opportunity.

Patience, let's see who's got it

[bergholt]

As a saints supporter it's about copping your medicine for the next three years and building another powerful decade around high end draft picks.
In the meantime no analysis paralysis,pulling out hair, criss crossing each week in differing opinions on kids development stages,etc. Just buy your membership, put some focus back into your forgotten pastimes,and get ready for an assault on the 2017-2024 premierships.

Put your trust into pelican and waters building and developing a squad. Pelican has past form, Watters is unproven but it is a supposed strength of his,so give him his opportunity.

Patience, let's see who's got it

Good post.

[Zed]

Interesting thread. Someone should time-capsule this and bring it back October 2014.

I expect us to win 3 - 6 games in 2014, depending on whether the injury gods smile on us.

Of the 150+ game players , I expect Kosi, Blake, Lenny & Milne will be retired this year, and 2014 will be the last year for Fisher, Roo, - Schneider and CJ will be delisted/retired at the end of 2014

I think Dal will be offered another 1 year contract and retire at the end of 2015

Joey & Dempster will go around again in 2016 just as we start to sniff around the top 8.

[Freebird]

Who is the Parker and Darling of this year BigMart?

Tell us now or will you wait for two years like you did with the above two?

Its too hard explaining logic <edited by MODS for mild abuse / baiting> JB

[BigMart]

Hickey was not worth what we paid.... Brodie Grundy is already better....

Hickey has some major issues for a 200cm player.... He can't take a body grab.... He's light as a feather, can jump a bit at bounces but stoppage ball ups he is pushed aside, is slow, and certainly can't kick... Is not a smart footballer.

Not sure how the hell he was considered a first rounder?!
Especially since we didn't need a #1 Ruckman?

We paid overs, by a fair bit. IMO

[plugger66]

Interesting thread.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

WA person. What arrogance.

That's ok I'm pretty comfortable in the fact that I would have a better grasp of the workings of our club all the way from WA then bignote could ever dream of ... So if he likes to dismiss me cause I'm in WA then that's his prerogative

[plugger66]

WA person. What arrogance.

That's ok I'm pretty comfortable in the fact that I would have a better grasp of the workings of our club all the way from WA then bignote could ever dream of ... So if he likes to dismiss me cause I'm in WA then that's his prerogative

Fair enough WA guy. And thats a joke by the way.I siuppose what can you expect from a guy whose surname is martin and he calls himself Bigmart. By the way how do i change my name to hero66?

[Cairnsman]

I reckon 2014 is a tank year.

We need two more good draft picks.

If we don't get 4 of our 2016 'top 6' from this year's and next year's draft we're going to delay our climb further and further.


2014 should be about learning, development, and only winning enough games to show some potential - but not impact the hope of getting 2 high draft picks.

Pelcen indicated this at the meeting the other night.

Stated 2014 would be as bad or worse than 2013.

So you are spot on.

Yep. And hopefully most supporters realise this fact and just get behind the club and ride it out.

[Con Gorozidis]

Yep. And hopefully most supporters realise this fact and just get behind the club and ride it out.

Amen! Just go to the footy have a beer or a pie and relax and chat with your mates or kids or whoever you go with . Dont get stressed about the score and get enjoyment from watching the kids develop and improve!

[Cairnsman]

Yep. And hopefully most supporters realise this fact and just get behind the club and ride it out.

Amen! Just go to the footy have a beer or a pie and relax and chat with your mates or kids or whoever you go with . Dont get stressed about the score and get enjoyment from watching the kids develop and improve!

You got it Con. We've got some basic building blocks in place and hopefully we can stack those next year.

[gringo]

I know you just trying to have a go Dragit.... You're not a fan

Sorry mate, I honestly don't mean to hinder discussion… It's a good topic… I probably got a little caught up in Luke Parker fever…

I think the 'less injuries', 'more development', 'retire 32+'s' and our desperate need for a full back or two is a given…

18 months ago looking at our list, I reckon we pretty much needed to replace every line on the ground except small forwards and medium defenders…

Most pressing was Key backs and another genuine ruck option.

We got the ruck in Hickey, but I think we really should have tried a mature Key defender or two from a lower level if not in a trade… Tippett or similar would have been worth the risk.

Lee was a good get when you look at how long Roo might have left… White looks pretty speculative and years off.

We've added some midfielders, but no genuine stars, maybe Wright? (I think he is exactly what we were hoping for from Cripps)

I agree with Pluggs on keeping only one of CJ & Lenny, really hoping it's Lenny…

Newnes & Ross need to start really getting midfield time into them next year… hopefully Curren has had enough pre-season's now to play in there too.

I am worried about Gwilts pace… and would certainly favour Gilbert out of the two… Geary, Roberton, Fisher, Dempster pick themselves… If we get a FB, how do we get desperately needed experience into Webster, Wright, Dunell? along with Gilbert, Gwilt & Ray… ?

Funny how we've lost 5 or so back flankers (Goddard, Gram, Clarke, Peake, Cripps) and we still have too many.

Riewoldt was so damn good earlier this year but seems to only have 10 - 15 good weeks before his knee really troubles him. I would like to see him managed a little differently… routinely rested before he starts looking proppy… play 3 or 4, miss 1. Would be nice for him to finish a year off strongly rather than hanging on for dear life for the last 6 weeks…

I don't think GWS are genuinely willing to trade pick 1, but if they were I hope we are in the frame… If we could somehow get picks 1 & 3 this year… the future could become very exciting all of a sudden.

TDL I imagine would be given a 2 year deal… Will they hold onto Saad?

(-7) OUTS: Blake, Milne, Kosi, CJ, Lever, Ledger, CJ

(+1)UPGRADE: Curren

(+1)FA: FB

(+5)DRAFT

Trades are anyone's guess with the Pelican floating around.

These guys need to show a bit next year or face the chop - Siposs, TDL, Maister, Dunell, Milera

Well thought out and sensible. I would actually think Lenny sacrilegiously might have less left in him than CJ. Clint could feasibly play another few years and Lenny's body won't make it through a full season anymore. You don't want your stars to retire but there comes a time when the physical punishment catches up to them.

[noob]

Who would you choose with our first pick out Scharenberg, Billings or Kelly? Assuming those 3 are the most likely with Aish and Boyd gone.

[BackFromUSA]

Dal for Conca you're dreaming.....Conca just about passed Dal now and has a great future and Tiges wont let him go .

Actually ... my whole post is a dream!

However here are my thoughts:

- Richmond have a stated objective of a premiership within 2 years as a part of their 5 year plan
- Richmond have paid overs for getting talent in over the past few years - a few players each year
- Richmond have had to pay Riewoldt and now Martin (assuming they will) a lot more $s
- Richmond will have a MAJOR salary cap squeeze
- Conca also wants more $s (and deserves them) ... but remains unsigned (as far as I know)

If we went to Richmond with a deal where we swapped Dal for Conca or Dal / pick 4 for Conca / Griffiths we can give them something they really need ...

SALARY CAP!

Let's assume Dal is on 450,000 for 2014 (subject to fitness test)

Conca + Griffiths would be combined 350,000 for Richmond currently however Conca is now worth that amount on his own - maybe more and Griffiths is worth $150,000 still.

To keep Conca and Griffiths, Richmond meed $500,000 + of salary cap.

Option 1 for them is to trade out Griffiths alone for a draft pick - which saves them $100,000 (the drfat pick has to be paid $50,000 year 1) but $100,000 saving is not enough!

If the Saints come along and say we will give you Dal (and pay $300,000 of his $450,000 salary for 2014) + a fourth rounder ... suddenly the cost is:

Dal @ $150,000 for 2014 from Richmond's cap
Draft pick for $50,000 for 2014

TOTAL $200,000

Or they can keep Conca + Griffiths and pay $500,000

In a tight cap situation ... saving $300,000 is a big deal.

And they can sell it to their members ... we got Dal ... the class we need ... just the top up we need to have a real tilt at the flag ... not going to be tagged with Cotchin, Deludio etc in our team blah blah ... and to be honest Dal is only being tagged out of games because we lack quality midfielders.

And why would we pay $300,000 in 2014 to secure Conca and Griffiths on top of the $s we will have to pay? Because we have heaps of salary cap for 2014 ... and it has to be spent ... and it will be viewed as a transfer fee to secure a quality young midfielder and a 200cm defensive monster.

Of course that $300,000 is a 1 year payment, which means we have that money opening up again in 2015 for player acquisition / retention.

Dal would love to stay and the Saints would love him to stay but it is a win / win for club and player. Dal gets a chance at finals footy and maybe a premiership while he can still play and the Saints get two key players in their very early 20s (and use up some of our 2014 salary cap) who peak in 2016+

[BackFromUSA]

Who would you choose with our first pick out Scharenberg, Billings or Kelly? Assuming those 3 are the most likely with Aish and Boyd gone.

Kelly at 3 please (I also like Matt Crouch)

[lloyd21]

Scharenburg Scharenburg Sharenburg by the length of the Flemington straight

[BackFromUSA]

In my opinion - Scharenburg is the 2nd or 3rd best player but doesn't fit our midfield needs 2016+ and has the "go home" factor that worries me.

[lloyd21]

So you don't want Luke Hodge Jobe Watson Jaeger Omeara .?

This guy call play everywhere except Full Back.

My not get him though but I would .

Very clear agenda for Saints they will chase only players with high skills that can play many positions

[BackFromUSA]

This is more like a choice between Goddard and Cotchin types. We need a Cotchin. A true midfielder who gets plenty of the pill and is damaging with it.