Attack

[rodgerfox]

Heard a conversation on the radio the other day in regards to Carlton's small forward line.

I think it was King and someone else, and they basically said that it doesn't work for them, and that they need to change it. They used the Saints as an example - we went with the small forward line but then had to shelve it.


I wasn't so sure about that comment as I recalled that we were scoring better early.


So I checked the stats....

Rounds 1 - 11
Ave. Points for: 84


Rounds 12 - 22
Ave. Points for: 64


So I'm not sure you could say that 'we had to shelve it'. Based on the above, we certainly didn't have to shelve it due to low scores. Or if we did, we clearly didn't replace it with a better solution!

[rodgerfox]

In defence, it's even more alarming..


Rounds 1 - 11
Ave. Points Against: 92
Times 100 Points Have Been Conceded: 3


Rounds 12 - 22
Ave. Points Against: 107
Times 100 Points Have Been Conceded: 8

[dragit]

More small forwards… it's the only way out of this mess.

[plugger66]

Think that proves how poorly we have played since the middle of the year. If it was only the forward line you may have a point but being both suggests it is the whole side.

[rodgerfox]

Often, a team will sacrifice attack for defence, or vice versa. That is to say, they will increase their Points For but in return will concede more as result, or they will tighter their defence and reduce the Points Against, but won't be able to score as freely themselves.

We've not only reduced our Points For significantly, we've also reduced our Points For at the same time!

[bergsone]

IMO 2/3 small forwards are ok as long as they can rotate through midfield as well,ours dont

[plugger66]

Often, a team will sacrifice attack for defence, or vice versa. That is to say, they will increase their Points For but in return will concede more as result, or they will tighter their defence and reduce the Points Against, but won't be able to score as freely themselves.

We've not only reduced our Points For significantly, we've also reduced our Points For at the same time!

Yep it means we are playing worse than we were earlier in the year.

[dragit]

We've played the top 3 sides over the last 4 weeks… where we've kicked 5,7 & 8 goals for 3 beltings…

Also, Riewoldt seems to have around 12 weeks of form stellar form these days before his knee flares up…

[rodgerfox]

My theory is that by 'shelving' the small forwards, we also lost a signficant amount of forward pressure.

As most teams build their attack from defence, this has directly resulted in our opponents scoring more against us. Once they get the break from defence, they just split us open and score at will.

Since the small forward line has been canned, we've been very vulnerable in this regard.

[plugger66]

My theory is that by 'shelving' the small forwards, we also lost a signficant amount of forward pressure.

As most teams build their attack from defence, this has directly resulted in our opponents scoring more against us. Once they get the break from defence, they just split us open and score at will.

Since the small forward line has been canned, we've been very vulnerable in this regard.

Interesting but its more likely we arent playing as well, a younger team that is tired and playing better sides.

[Kickit]

It seems clear that specialist small forwards are useless for all the times when the ball is in the backline.
It also seems clear that we need a full back for all the times when the ball is in the backline.

[rodgerfox]

It seems clear that specialist small forwards are useless for all the times when the ball is in the backline.

But small forwards can dictate how well the ball is delivered into the backline by the opposition, and also how quickly.

[Mr Magic]

I reckon the stat is directly attributable to who we played in the first 11 games vs who we've played since.

[spert]

Roo was in great form early and was kicking goals, but has tapered off as the season has gone on, plus Maister then got injured and the small forwards just haven't worked. That's a forward line with a CHF not really kicking many goals, no effective FF, and no effective smalls, so it's a wonder we are scoring at all.

[rodgerfox]

Roo was in great form early and was kicking goals, but has tapered off as the season has gone on, plus Maister then got injured and the small forwards just haven't worked. That's a forward line with a CHF not really kicking many goals, no effective FF, and no effective smalls, so it's a wonder we are scoring at all.

I'm in this camp a bit, I must say.

Call it 'rose coloured glasses' if you will, but I'm of the belief that we're overperforming.


As per above, our forward line is chronically undermanned and has no continuity in terms of available personnel. But it pales into insignificance when compared to the situation in the backline!


So you do sometimes sit back and think to yourself - maybe we're overperforming to not be being beaten by 100 points every week.

[plugger66]

Roo was in great form early and was kicking goals, but has tapered off as the season has gone on, plus Maister then got injured and the small forwards just haven't worked. That's a forward line with a CHF not really kicking many goals, no effective FF, and no effective smalls, so it's a wonder we are scoring at all.

I'm in this camp a bit, I must say.

Call it 'rose coloured glasses' if you will, but I'm of the belief that we're overperforming.


As per above, our forward line is chronically undermanned and has no continuity in terms of available personnel. But it pales into insignificance when compared to the situation in the backline!


So you do sometimes sit back and think to yourself - maybe we're overperforming to not be being beaten by 100 points every week.

Yep overforming being 3rd last with 3 wins after winning 12 last year. 1 win ahead of melbourne which is a basket case. 10 players with about 200 games each on the list. about 7 AA on the list.

[spert]

I think the difference between us and Melbourne this season is Roo and Steven

[SainterK]

Roo was in great form early and was kicking goals, but has tapered off as the season has gone on, plus Maister then got injured and the small forwards just haven't worked. That's a forward line with a CHF not really kicking many goals, no effective FF, and no effective smalls, so it's a wonder we are scoring at all.

I'm in this camp a bit, I must say.

Call it 'rose coloured glasses' if you will, but I'm of the belief that we're overperforming.


As per above, our forward line is chronically undermanned and has no continuity in terms of available personnel. But it pales into insignificance when compared to the situation in the backline!


So you do sometimes sit back and think to yourself - maybe we're overperforming to not be being beaten by 100 points every week.

The backline has done well considering once again it went in the opposition's forward half +22 times

[SaintPav]

More forward option the better and a bit like having multiple user names on this site.

[rodgerfox]

Roo was in great form early and was kicking goals, but has tapered off as the season has gone on, plus Maister then got injured and the small forwards just haven't worked. That's a forward line with a CHF not really kicking many goals, no effective FF, and no effective smalls, so it's a wonder we are scoring at all.

I'm in this camp a bit, I must say.

Call it 'rose coloured glasses' if you will, but I'm of the belief that we're overperforming.


As per above, our forward line is chronically undermanned and has no continuity in terms of available personnel. But it pales into insignificance when compared to the situation in the backline!


So you do sometimes sit back and think to yourself - maybe we're overperforming to not be being beaten by 100 points every week.

Yep overforming being 3rd last with 3 wins after winning 12 last year. 1 win ahead of melbourne which is a basket case. 10 players with about 200 games each on the list. about 7 AA on the list.

The 'list' is the most overrated and overused term in footy.

The 'list' doesn't matter. It's what's on the park that matters.

[plugger66]

I'm in this camp a bit, I must say.

Call it 'rose coloured glasses' if you will, but I'm of the belief that we're overperforming.


As per above, our forward line is chronically undermanned and has no continuity in terms of available personnel. But it pales into insignificance when compared to the situation in the backline!


So you do sometimes sit back and think to yourself - maybe we're overperforming to not be being beaten by 100 points every week.

Yep overforming being 3rd last with 3 wins after winning 12 last year. 1 win ahead of melbourne which is a basket case. 10 players with about 200 games each on the list. about 7 AA on the list.

The 'list' is the most overrated and overused term in footy.

The 'list' doesn't matter. It's what's on the park that matters.

Well on the park we have had for most game this year Dal, Joey, Rooy, Jack, Armo, ben, CJ, geary, Roberton, Ray, dempster, Stanley and Milne. Most of those names suggest 3 wins isnt overperforming.

[footynut]

I think with the inclusion of players like Curren & Mintch, who can play as legitimate dangerous small forwards and also rotate through the midfield makes us a lot more diverse and stronger long term

[FQF]

Geelong have plenty of small forwards and they do alright

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

Geelong have plenty of small forwards and they do alright

The difference is that Geelong's "small forwards" (Stokes, Motlop et al) all are able up the ground and play through the midfield (ditto Hawthorn's smalls and Sydney's). Guys like Saad, Milera, Milne, and TDL are all unable to do that. Particularly Milne and Saad are only effective in the forward 30m-40m and that just doesn't wash in today's footy.

[FQF]

Geelong have plenty of small forwards and they do alright

The difference is that Geelong's "small forwards" (Stokes, Motlop et al) all are able up the ground and play through the midfield (ditto Hawthorn's smalls and Sydney's). Guys like Saad, Milera, Milne, and TDL are all unable to do that. Particularly Milne and Saad are only effective in the forward 30m-40m and that just doesn't wash in today's footy.

Harsh on Milne. He often picks up possessions as far back as the last line of defense and is also a decent field kick.