We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.

[Leo.J]

There is no point in peaking between 2015 - 2017 imo.

This is when GC and GWS will be dominant.

We need to be competing for the finals during 2015-17 but not peaking, there's no point.

A couple of years of top 10 draft picks are required to build a core around Big Mac, Jack, Armo, Tom Hickey, Wright, Newnes, Roberton and a few others.

The biggest challenge is to stay afloat financially during this time, but if we can make it through we'll be ready to reload around about then.

I'd be surprised if Scotty will survive that long without success, so it will give Harves, Rooey or Lenny time to get their resumes up to scratch for the top job.

Right now the clubs future is more than ever in the hands of the board...

They'll be under a lot of pressure in the next couple of years, the media and supporters will come for them, patience and a good five year plan is crucial for our club to survive and then contend again.

[ShanghaiSaint]

i'm not sacred of GWS or GC... they will be good teams but great? no one knows.

[Leo.J]

I'll be surprised if they're not almost unstoppable for a couple of years with all their 1st rounders.

[mad saint guy]

I agree that we need to finish bottom four for at least another two years after this season. Some teams are able to regenerate the bottom of their list while enjoying success and don't bottom out, but we neglected youth so badly while contending that we need a full-scale rebuild - we need the next few years of high picks to be the core of our next good team. We have some good support players coming through but I don't see the next Roo, Lenny, Dal, Fisher, Joey etc coming through. Steven is A-grade but no one else that we've seen so far looks like they'll become elite.

There's no danger of us shooting up the ladder too fast though, we're still relying on the 29+ guys to keep us mildly competitive. At least that means we shouldn't end up a regular mid-ladder team like North/Freo/Richmond have been for the past decade or so.

[saintspremiers]

There is no point in peaking between 2015 - 2017 imo.

in.

How were we ever going to peak in that period?

I stopped reading your post after that statement.

[Leo.J]

There is no point in peaking between 2015 - 2017 imo.

in.

How were we ever going to peak in that period?

I stopped reading your post after that statement.

Good.

[stinger]

There is no point in peaking between 2015 - 2017 imo.

This is when GC and GWS will be dominant.

We need to be competing for the finals during 2015-17 but not peaking, there's no point.

A couple of years of top 10 draft picks are required to build a core around Big Mac, Jack, Armo, Tom Hickey, Wright, Newnes, Roberton and a few others.

The biggest challenge is to stay afloat financially during this time, but if we can make it through we'll be ready to reload around about then.

I'd be surprised if Scotty will survive that long without success, so it will give Harves, Rooey or Lenny time to get their resumes up to scratch for the top job.

Right now the clubs future is more than ever in the hands of the board...

They'll be under a lot of pressure in the next couple of years, the media and supporters will come for them, patience and a good five year plan is crucial for our club to survive and then contend again.

good post. .....makes sense to me

[Con Gorozidis]

I reckon we will be bad next year. If we get 6-8 wins in 2015 ill be very pleased.
10-12 in 2016 ill be pumped!
12-14 in 2017 ecstatic.
Contend in 2018.

[Leo.J]

I reckon we will be bad next year. If we get 6-8 wins in 2015 ill be very pleased.
10-12 in 2016 ill be pumped!
12-14 in 2017 ecstatic.
Contend in 2018.

Thats what I'm hoping for.

[Con Gorozidis]

We should have a close look at what Port Power did.
Built up from basket case to competitive on a low budget in 4 years.

[R. Harvey 3 votes!]

There is no point in peaking between 2015 - 2017 imo.

in.

How were we ever going to peak in that period?

I stopped reading your post after that statement.

I second this. We won't be doing anything anyway until at least 2018

[gringo]

You just have to make your team better every year no matter what. We were up for 10 years are we going to wait that long?

[saintspremiers]

You just have to make your team better every year no matter what. We were up for 10 years are we going to wait that long?

Look at the Hawks. Prelims in 2001 then crap until about 2006, GF and flag in 2008.

7 years minimum, more likely 10.

[Leo.J]

There is no point in peaking between 2015 - 2017 imo.

in.

How were we ever going to peak in that period?

I stopped reading your post after that statement.

I second this. We won't be doing anything anyway until at least 2018

If we are tracking as we are now in 5 years we'll be gone or relocated.

We can't afford to stay down for that long.

The Club needs to be showing promise like we did in 2003 in 4-5 years time.

Btw the peaking around 2015 was a general statement, not necessarily talking about us peaking, just that there would be no point in aiming to win a flag during that time... Like the Tigers would be.

My main point is we can't afford to be down for too long, but not panick and try for a short term fix.

We need hold our nerve.

[whiskers3614]

a flag anytime before 2066 would be great!

[Kickit]

I don't like the idea of orchestrated rebuilds. Too much can go wrong ( 05-06 ) then your out for the next rebuild period.
Better off to try to be in a position to make the best of it if things start going your way.

[Leo.J]

I don't like the idea of orchestrated rebuilds. Too much can go wrong ( 05-06 ) then your out for the next rebuild period.
Better off to try to be in a position to make the best of it if things start going your way.

I would agree if we were one of the wealthy teams.

But we aren't, good players aren't going to come to us unless they are from the draft.

The differences between the haves and have nots is more apparent than ever.

If we had of been able to retain Goddard (and Ball) and recruit like Collingwood, Geelong, and Hawthorn have over the last 3 years we'd be looking at finals right now, while regenerating the list.

We don't have that luxury, we need to do what the Dogs are doing now unfortunately, the long slow rebuild, starting at the bottom.

[plugger66]

There is no point in peaking between 2015 - 2017 imo.

in.

How were we ever going to peak in that period?

I stopped reading your post after that statement.

You should have kept reading to see what he called you.

[Munga]

2000: 1 Riewoldt, 2 Koschitzke, 1PS Voss, TR Gehrig, TR Hamill
2001: 2 Ball, 5 Clarke, 13 Dal Santo, 21 Maguire, 37 Montagna, TR Black
2002: 1 Goddard, 1PS Powell, TR Penny

13 quality players in three drafts to get us going. Late 2003 we're smashing teams and 2004 win the pre season, 10 in a row and make the prelims.
We didn't have high picks in the last few years, but they look like quality guys at the moment and give us a head start.

2011: 25 Ross, 35 Markworth, 37 Newnes, 42 Webster, RK Dunell, RK Shenton, RK Minchington, TR Milera, TR Saad
2012: 24 Wright, 25 White, 40 Murdoch, 43 Saunders, 75 Pierce, FA Roberton, TR Lee, TR Hickey, TR Dennis-Lane

So far so good. We really need to nail the next draft and grab one or two out and out stars (think O'Meara, Cameron, Talia). Add one or two smart trades, maybe a free agent and we'll continue to improve. Another year of development and recruiting in 2014 and I think we'll be just about set for a ten year crack at the flag. Sounds easy huh?

[St. Luke]

I'm not convinced 1st rounders are the big deal they are made out to be. Smart recruiting and a good culture brings out the best teams. Talk to bloody Geelong about priority draft picks. Smart recruiting and an eye for talent will see the Cats dominant for quite a few seasons yet.

[Leo.J]

I'm not convinced 1st rounders are the big deal they are made out to be. Smart recruiting and a good culture brings out the best teams. Talk to bloody Geelong about priority draft picks. Smart recruiting and an eye for talent will see the Cats dominant for quite a few seasons yet.

They have chosen well when they've had a pick but the father son rule and money have helped

Scarlet, Ablett, and Hawkins.

And then the ability to lure Ottens, and more recently Caddy.

If you have money and power you can top up and develop while you're still in the mix

Otherwise you start at the bottom, and get picks.

[dragit]

Peaking 2015

Unless Fyfe, Dangerfield, Cotchin, Frawley, Wingard & Cameron can't resist the seaford coffee, I think we should be safe on the 2015 peak.

We don't need to orchestrate being s*** for a good few years… it will flow very naturally.

[dragit]

I'm not convinced 1st rounders are the big deal they are made out to be. Smart recruiting and a good culture brings out the best teams. Talk to bloody Geelong about priority draft picks. Smart recruiting and an eye for talent will see the Cats dominant for quite a few seasons yet.

They have chosen well when they've had a pick but the father son rule and money have helped

Scarlet, Ablett, and Hawkins.

And then the ability to lure Ottens, and more recently Caddy.

If you have money and power you can top up and develop while you're still in the mix

Otherwise you start at the bottom, and get picks.

They could only lure Caddy because of the compensation they got for Ablett, it's not smart, it's the legacy of bung recruiting law. The gift that keeps on giving…

Ablett - pick 40, brownlow, 2 flags - rolled into 2 first round draft picks - Smedts & Caddy… effectively dragging out the benefits of that FS rule for another ten years.

[Kickit]

I'm not convinced 1st rounders are the big deal they are made out to be. Smart recruiting and a good culture brings out the best teams. Talk to bloody Geelong about priority draft picks. Smart recruiting and an eye for talent will see the Cats dominant for quite a few seasons yet.

Exactly - do a benefit of hindsight draft for the Saints and we could have had:
Jack Riewoldt instead of Armitage.
Kurt Tippett instead Howard

That would have given us reasonable depth for forwards and rucks from 2008 onward.

Shuey , Swift , Zharakis, hell a veritable smorgasboard instead of Tom Lynch.
Savage instead of Heyne or A Smith ( why did we even draft this guy if Lyon didn't like the way he played ).
Fyfe instead of Lovett. Christenson instead of Winmar.

We wouldn't be bottoming out now if we'd done something like that.

Hindsight is terrific, but you didn't have to be a genius to pick up some good players in a draft like 2008 either.
You would have needed to be clairvoyant to get all the a/m picks , but equally you need to be almost stupid to pick as badly as the Saints did.

[borderbarry]

Is this year one or two of our rebuild?