We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
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We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
There is no point in peaking between 2015 - 2017 imo.
This is when GC and GWS will be dominant.
We need to be competing for the finals during 2015-17 but not peaking, there's no point.
A couple of years of top 10 draft picks are required to build a core around Big Mac, Jack, Armo, Tom Hickey, Wright, Newnes, Roberton and a few others.
The biggest challenge is to stay afloat financially during this time, but if we can make it through we'll be ready to reload around about then.
I'd be surprised if Scotty will survive that long without success, so it will give Harves, Rooey or Lenny time to get their resumes up to scratch for the top job.
Right now the clubs future is more than ever in the hands of the board...
They'll be under a lot of pressure in the next couple of years, the media and supporters will come for them, patience and a good five year plan is crucial for our club to survive and then contend again.
This is when GC and GWS will be dominant.
We need to be competing for the finals during 2015-17 but not peaking, there's no point.
A couple of years of top 10 draft picks are required to build a core around Big Mac, Jack, Armo, Tom Hickey, Wright, Newnes, Roberton and a few others.
The biggest challenge is to stay afloat financially during this time, but if we can make it through we'll be ready to reload around about then.
I'd be surprised if Scotty will survive that long without success, so it will give Harves, Rooey or Lenny time to get their resumes up to scratch for the top job.
Right now the clubs future is more than ever in the hands of the board...
They'll be under a lot of pressure in the next couple of years, the media and supporters will come for them, patience and a good five year plan is crucial for our club to survive and then contend again.
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
i'm not sacred of GWS or GC... they will be good teams but great? no one knows.
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- mad saint guy
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
I agree that we need to finish bottom four for at least another two years after this season. Some teams are able to regenerate the bottom of their list while enjoying success and don't bottom out, but we neglected youth so badly while contending that we need a full-scale rebuild - we need the next few years of high picks to be the core of our next good team. We have some good support players coming through but I don't see the next Roo, Lenny, Dal, Fisher, Joey etc coming through. Steven is A-grade but no one else that we've seen so far looks like they'll become elite.
There's no danger of us shooting up the ladder too fast though, we're still relying on the 29+ guys to keep us mildly competitive. At least that means we shouldn't end up a regular mid-ladder team like North/Freo/Richmond have been for the past decade or so.
There's no danger of us shooting up the ladder too fast though, we're still relying on the 29+ guys to keep us mildly competitive. At least that means we shouldn't end up a regular mid-ladder team like North/Freo/Richmond have been for the past decade or so.
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
How were we ever going to peak in that period?Leo.J wrote:There is no point in peaking between 2015 - 2017 imo.
in.
I stopped reading your post after that statement.
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
Good.saintspremiers wrote:How were we ever going to peak in that period?Leo.J wrote:There is no point in peaking between 2015 - 2017 imo.
in.
I stopped reading your post after that statement.
Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
good post. .....makes sense to meLeo.J wrote:There is no point in peaking between 2015 - 2017 imo.
This is when GC and GWS will be dominant.
We need to be competing for the finals during 2015-17 but not peaking, there's no point.
A couple of years of top 10 draft picks are required to build a core around Big Mac, Jack, Armo, Tom Hickey, Wright, Newnes, Roberton and a few others.
The biggest challenge is to stay afloat financially during this time, but if we can make it through we'll be ready to reload around about then.
I'd be surprised if Scotty will survive that long without success, so it will give Harves, Rooey or Lenny time to get their resumes up to scratch for the top job.
Right now the clubs future is more than ever in the hands of the board...
They'll be under a lot of pressure in the next couple of years, the media and supporters will come for them, patience and a good five year plan is crucial for our club to survive and then contend again.
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
I reckon we will be bad next year. If we get 6-8 wins in 2015 ill be very pleased.
10-12 in 2016 ill be pumped!
12-14 in 2017 ecstatic.
Contend in 2018.
10-12 in 2016 ill be pumped!
12-14 in 2017 ecstatic.
Contend in 2018.
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
Thats what I'm hoping for.Con Gorozidis wrote:I reckon we will be bad next year. If we get 6-8 wins in 2015 ill be very pleased.
10-12 in 2016 ill be pumped!
12-14 in 2017 ecstatic.
Contend in 2018.
- Con Gorozidis
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
We should have a close look at what Port Power did.
Built up from basket case to competitive on a low budget in 4 years.
Built up from basket case to competitive on a low budget in 4 years.
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
I second this. We won't be doing anything anyway until at least 2018saintspremiers wrote:How were we ever going to peak in that period?Leo.J wrote:There is no point in peaking between 2015 - 2017 imo.
in.
I stopped reading your post after that statement.
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
You just have to make your team better every year no matter what. We were up for 10 years are we going to wait that long?
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
Look at the Hawks. Prelims in 2001 then crap until about 2006, GF and flag in 2008.gringo wrote:You just have to make your team better every year no matter what. We were up for 10 years are we going to wait that long?
7 years minimum, more likely 10.
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
If we are tracking as we are now in 5 years we'll be gone or relocated.R. Harvey 3 votes! wrote:I second this. We won't be doing anything anyway until at least 2018saintspremiers wrote:How were we ever going to peak in that period?Leo.J wrote:There is no point in peaking between 2015 - 2017 imo.
in.
I stopped reading your post after that statement.
We can't afford to stay down for that long.
The Club needs to be showing promise like we did in 2003 in 4-5 years time.
Btw the peaking around 2015 was a general statement, not necessarily talking about us peaking, just that there would be no point in aiming to win a flag during that time... Like the Tigers would be.
My main point is we can't afford to be down for too long, but not panick and try for a short term fix.
We need hold our nerve.
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
I don't like the idea of orchestrated rebuilds. Too much can go wrong ( 05-06 ) then your out for the next rebuild period.
Better off to try to be in a position to make the best of it if things start going your way.
Better off to try to be in a position to make the best of it if things start going your way.
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
I would agree if we were one of the wealthy teams.Kickit wrote:I don't like the idea of orchestrated rebuilds. Too much can go wrong ( 05-06 ) then your out for the next rebuild period.
Better off to try to be in a position to make the best of it if things start going your way.
But we aren't, good players aren't going to come to us unless they are from the draft.
The differences between the haves and have nots is more apparent than ever.
If we had of been able to retain Goddard (and Ball) and recruit like Collingwood, Geelong, and Hawthorn have over the last 3 years we'd be looking at finals right now, while regenerating the list.
We don't have that luxury, we need to do what the Dogs are doing now unfortunately, the long slow rebuild, starting at the bottom.
Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
saintspremiers wrote:How were we ever going to peak in that period?Leo.J wrote:There is no point in peaking between 2015 - 2017 imo.
in.
I stopped reading your post after that statement.
You should have kept reading to see what he called you.
- Munga
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
2000: 1 Riewoldt, 2 Koschitzke, 1PS Voss, TR Gehrig, TR Hamill
2001: 2 Ball, 5 Clarke, 13 Dal Santo, 21 Maguire, 37 Montagna, TR Black
2002: 1 Goddard, 1PS Powell, TR Penny
13 quality players in three drafts to get us going. Late 2003 we're smashing teams and 2004 win the pre season, 10 in a row and make the prelims.
We didn't have high picks in the last few years, but they look like quality guys at the moment and give us a head start.
2011: 25 Ross, 35 Markworth, 37 Newnes, 42 Webster, RK Dunell, RK Shenton, RK Minchington, TR Milera, TR Saad
2012: 24 Wright, 25 White, 40 Murdoch, 43 Saunders, 75 Pierce, FA Roberton, TR Lee, TR Hickey, TR Dennis-Lane
So far so good. We really need to nail the next draft and grab one or two out and out stars (think O'Meara, Cameron, Talia). Add one or two smart trades, maybe a free agent and we'll continue to improve. Another year of development and recruiting in 2014 and I think we'll be just about set for a ten year crack at the flag. Sounds easy huh?
2001: 2 Ball, 5 Clarke, 13 Dal Santo, 21 Maguire, 37 Montagna, TR Black
2002: 1 Goddard, 1PS Powell, TR Penny
13 quality players in three drafts to get us going. Late 2003 we're smashing teams and 2004 win the pre season, 10 in a row and make the prelims.
We didn't have high picks in the last few years, but they look like quality guys at the moment and give us a head start.
2011: 25 Ross, 35 Markworth, 37 Newnes, 42 Webster, RK Dunell, RK Shenton, RK Minchington, TR Milera, TR Saad
2012: 24 Wright, 25 White, 40 Murdoch, 43 Saunders, 75 Pierce, FA Roberton, TR Lee, TR Hickey, TR Dennis-Lane
So far so good. We really need to nail the next draft and grab one or two out and out stars (think O'Meara, Cameron, Talia). Add one or two smart trades, maybe a free agent and we'll continue to improve. Another year of development and recruiting in 2014 and I think we'll be just about set for a ten year crack at the flag. Sounds easy huh?
Gehrig emerged from scans yesterday saying he was "as sweet as a bun"
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
I'm not convinced 1st rounders are the big deal they are made out to be. Smart recruiting and a good culture brings out the best teams. Talk to bloody Geelong about priority draft picks. Smart recruiting and an eye for talent will see the Cats dominant for quite a few seasons yet.
When they created LENNY HAYES (in the shadow of Harvs) they forgot to break the mold (again)- hence the Supremely Incredible Jack Steven!!
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
They have chosen well when they've had a pick but the father son rule and money have helpedSt. Luke wrote:I'm not convinced 1st rounders are the big deal they are made out to be. Smart recruiting and a good culture brings out the best teams. Talk to bloody Geelong about priority draft picks. Smart recruiting and an eye for talent will see the Cats dominant for quite a few seasons yet.
Scarlet, Ablett, and Hawkins.
And then the ability to lure Ottens, and more recently Caddy.
If you have money and power you can top up and develop while you're still in the mix
Otherwise you start at the bottom, and get picks.
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
Peaking 2015
Unless Fyfe, Dangerfield, Cotchin, Frawley, Wingard & Cameron can't resist the seaford coffee, I think we should be safe on the 2015 peak.
We don't need to orchestrate being s*** for a good few years… it will flow very naturally.
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Unless Fyfe, Dangerfield, Cotchin, Frawley, Wingard & Cameron can't resist the seaford coffee, I think we should be safe on the 2015 peak.
We don't need to orchestrate being s*** for a good few years… it will flow very naturally.
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Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
They could only lure Caddy because of the compensation they got for Ablett, it's not smart, it's the legacy of bung recruiting law. The gift that keeps on giving…Leo.J wrote:They have chosen well when they've had a pick but the father son rule and money have helpedSt. Luke wrote:I'm not convinced 1st rounders are the big deal they are made out to be. Smart recruiting and a good culture brings out the best teams. Talk to bloody Geelong about priority draft picks. Smart recruiting and an eye for talent will see the Cats dominant for quite a few seasons yet.
Scarlet, Ablett, and Hawkins.
And then the ability to lure Ottens, and more recently Caddy.
If you have money and power you can top up and develop while you're still in the mix
Otherwise you start at the bottom, and get picks.
Ablett - pick 40, brownlow, 2 flags - rolled into 2 first round draft picks - Smedts & Caddy… effectively dragging out the benefits of that FS rule for another ten years.
Re: We Need to be Crap For a Few Years.
Exactly - do a benefit of hindsight draft for the Saints and we could have had:St. Luke wrote:I'm not convinced 1st rounders are the big deal they are made out to be. Smart recruiting and a good culture brings out the best teams. Talk to bloody Geelong about priority draft picks. Smart recruiting and an eye for talent will see the Cats dominant for quite a few seasons yet.
Jack Riewoldt instead of Armitage.
Kurt Tippett instead Howard
That would have given us reasonable depth for forwards and rucks from 2008 onward.
Shuey , Swift , Zharakis, hell a veritable smorgasboard instead of Tom Lynch.
Savage instead of Heyne or A Smith ( why did we even draft this guy if Lyon didn't like the way he played ).
Fyfe instead of Lovett. Christenson instead of Winmar.
We wouldn't be bottoming out now if we'd done something like that.
Hindsight is terrific, but you didn't have to be a genius to pick up some good players in a draft like 2008 either.
You would have needed to be clairvoyant to get all the a/m picks , but equally you need to be almost stupid to pick as badly as the Saints did.
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