Ordinary signs

[Bluthy]

In a weird way it may be long term positive that it is obvious to all that we are pretty ordinary and will probably be for at least a 2-3 years. We will have no illusions where we are at. It lets the club focus on a full long term rebuild rather than "we could make the eight...who knows how far we could go..lets try to patch together a winning team" etc pipe dreams. Generational change needs time. If done right it lets you stay up for quite a while to have multiple stabs at the holy grail.

[kosifantutti]

Pollanna is a better man than me. What I saw tonight was our best players being best and we lost by 8 goals. Most of our best players wont be around in 3 years time so where does it leave us. Some kids look OK but none really ever get in the best.

I hope pollanna understands the game better than me. Every chance of that.

You said today we'd be lucky to get within 10 goals. We get within 8 and you're disappointed. Please explain.

[Wayne42]

This site borders on idiotic purely because 90% of the posters hang on pluggers every word.
The choice is yours, but, it does reflect on your knowledge of AFL football, undermanned style

[plugger66]

Pollanna is a better man than me. What I saw tonight was our best players being best and we lost by 8 goals. Most of our best players wont be around in 3 years time so where does it leave us. Some kids look OK but none really ever get in the best.

I hope pollanna understands the game better than me. Every chance of that.

You said today we'd be lucky to get within 10 goals. We get within 8 and you're disappointed. Please explain.

I thought I had. Our best players were all the experienced players. Sorry that IMO i cant see much coming through. I actually like comparing us to other side who are struggling and none have the stars we have so they have excuses to lose by big amounts. So there you go I was happy to get withn 10 goals but actually thought a young kid or two would be in or close to our best. IMO none were close. Im sorry to think that way. I will hang myself later in the night.

[plugger66]

This site borders on idiotic purely because 90% of the posters hang on pluggers every word.
The choice is yours, but, it does reflect on your knowledge of AFL football, undermanned style

Can I suggest not many care what I say but clearly no one gives a rats what you say because you have no abilty to say anything. Im happy to debate footy with you when you eventually attend school.

[Con Gorozidis]

plugger you have a short memory
in your world lenny joey and nds came out of the womb as good players.
they all took 3-5 years to get any good.

in any case dempster gwilt were terrible and lenny did bugger all.
but next year will be hard for us!

[whiskers3614]

plugger you have a short memory
in your world lenny joey and nds came out of the womb as good players.
they all took 3-5 years to get any good.

in any case dempster gwilt were terrible and lenny did bugger all.
but next year will be hard for us!

Bugger all???
Plugger gave him 4 votes!!

[plugger66]

plugger you have a short memory
in your world lenny joey and nds came out of the womb as good players.
they all took 3-5 years to get any good.

in any case dempster gwilt were terrible and lenny did bugger all.
but next year will be hard for us!

I actually said that Con but reading has never been your strong point. Well not in English anyway.

[bergholt]

I said last week i think Saunders can play and again tonight he showed a bit. I am not arguing any of that. Where are the young guys getting in our best 6 or 8 though. I want to be proved wrong and will happy to say it. I worry that we were so easily beaten tonight when our best players were clearly our best.

The kids are miles away and as a result we're miles away. But that shouldn't be surprising. You keep talking about Tom Liberatore - he's played 51 games. The two players we have around that mark are Roberton (55 games) and Steven (70 games). It's no coincidence that they've had breakout years this year.

Tonight we had 7 players who in total have only just got Libba covered for games:

Minchington 0 games
Curren 3 games
Murdoch 6 games
Lee 7 games
Saunders 8 games
Webster 10 games
Newnes 22 games

Our emergencies were Hickey (21 games) and Ross (11 games). Also in the team this year have been Siposs (25 games), Stanley (39 games), Simpkin (26 games), Milera (25 games), Ferguson (1 game), Dennis-Lane (28 games), Wright (8 games), Dunell (9 games).

Unless they're superstars, none of these guys are going to get consistently good until they get to 40 or 50 games. You know that. So why are you so surprised that we're a few years away from success?

[kosifantutti]

Pollanna is a better man than me. What I saw tonight was our best players being best and we lost by 8 goals. Most of our best players wont be around in 3 years time so where does it leave us. Some kids look OK but none really ever get in the best.

I hope pollanna understands the game better than me. Every chance of that.

You said today we'd be lucky to get within 10 goals. We get within 8 and you're disappointed. Please explain.

I thought I had. Our best players were all the experienced players. Sorry that IMO i cant see much coming through. I actually like comparing us to other side who are struggling and none have the stars we have so they have excuses to lose by big amounts. So there you go I was happy to get withn 10 goals but actually thought a young kid or two would be in or close to our best. IMO none were close. Im sorry to think that way. I will hang myself later in the night.

No need to be so melodramatic.

Lots saw promising signs tonight.

[Con Gorozidis]

i reckon next year we will bad
2015 improvement and 2016 decent and 2017 challenging
problem is gws will be scary in 2016-18

[Greg T]

Hard to gauge when your experienced players always stand up.
Aas they should?
One wonders as they retire if these younger players will ever reach there full potential as they
Need the older heads around them.
Next year will certainly tell if there got what it takes.
Don't forget each other club will also improve...

[ljpoyz]

To be fair, I reckon more people leave this site due to you, Sir Plugger, than Wayne42...

This site borders on idiotic purely because 90% of the posters hang on pluggers every word.
The choice is yours, but, it does reflect on your knowledge of AFL football, undermanned style

Can I suggest not many care what I say but clearly no one gives a rats what you say because you have no abilty to say anything. Im happy to debate footy with you when you eventually attend school.

[The OtherThommo]

2013 was done about 2 months ago. In that context I thought we went OK.

[Trev from the Bush]

The most ordinary sign was the piss-poor crowd - 24,746 at our home game against a top club that boasts 50,000+ members. We were still well outnumbered in the stands. It seems too many are content to sit home in front of the idiot box, listen to oracles-in-their-own-mind like BT and pass judgement on the team they support.

I've just got home, 12 hours and several hundred kilometres after leaving for the game. For what its worth I thought we would cop a walloping but 46 points was really pretty good. We were wasteful and it wasn't a case of Hawthorn mucking around. Anybody who thinks that are discrediting StKilda's pressure it applied for most of the night. There were lapses in concentration that proved costly but generally we had the Hawks going backwards and sideways most of the night. In case some of you haven't noticed Hawthorn is an elite team.

Of the first year players Tom Lee disappointed me tonight due to his ordinary application of defensive skills. The rest gave us reason to keep paying up our membership. Gwilt was clearly not right and we tend to forget that he, Roberton and Dempster are back pockets or flankers at best. Some on this site question Gwilt's value to the team when he clearly sacrifices himself every week taking on monster forwards. He always fights out of his weight division. That is the crux of our woes, the lack of any key defenders. Sammy Fisher was never right for this season and we are desperately missing Gilbert's run and long kicking out of defence (wherever his kicks land!). We also miss BJ's class and we tend to undervalue Gram's run out of defence but they are the past. Any injury has just compounds the situation.

A real plus tonight was the return of Schnieder, who has now completed 4 quarters for the season, and Blake. Now Blakey might be at the end of the line but he was very good tonight and did well on Roughead in the second half. Leaving him out of the team just makes chopping blocks out of the younger blokes.

You get a far better perspective of our progress (or lack of) looking down on the game from Level 3 than you ever will watching the TV or listening to half-interested commentators. We have two home games left, our supporters need to make an effort to get to them.

We might end up with only 3 wins for the season but will be vastly better for it next year. Anyway, I enjoyed it and my daughter loved her pre-match dinner and shopping spree in the city. That far outweighed any negatives.

[Cairnsman]

The most ordinary sign was the piss-poor crowd - 24,746 at our home game against a top club that boasts 50,000+ members. We were still well outnumbered in the stands. It seems too many are content to sit home in front of the idiot box, listen to oracles-in-their-own-mind like BT and pass judgement on the team they support.

I've just got home, 12 hours and several hundred kilometres after leaving for the game. For what its worth I thought we would cop a walloping but 46 points was really pretty good. We were wasteful and it wasn't a case of Hawthorn mucking around. Anybody who thinks that are discrediting StKilda's pressure it applied for most of the night. There were lapses in concentration that proved costly but generally we had the Hawks going backwards and sideways most of the night. In case some of you haven't noticed Hawthorn is an elite team.

Of the first year players Tom Lee disappointed me tonight due to his ordinary application of defensive skills. The rest gave us reason to keep paying up our membership. Gwilt was clearly not right and we tend to forget that he, Roberton and Dempster are back pockets or flankers at best. Some on this site question Gwilt's value to the team when he clearly sacrifices himself every week taking on monster forwards. He always fights out of his weight division. That is the crux of our woes, the lack of any key defenders. Sammy Fisher was never right for this season and we are desperately missing Gilbert's run and long kicking out of defence (wherever his kicks land!). We also miss BJ's class and we tend to undervalue Gram's run out of defence but they are the past. Any injury has just compounds the situation.

A real plus tonight was the return of Schnieder, who has now completed 4 quarters for the season, and Blake. Now Blakey might be at the end of the line but he was very good tonight and did well on Roughead in the second half. Leaving him out of the team just makes chopping blocks out of the younger blokes.

You get a far better perspective of our progress (or lack of) looking down on the game from Level 3 than you ever will watching the TV or listening to half-interested commentators. We have two home games left, our supporters need to make an effort to get to them.

We might end up with only 3 wins for the season but will be vastly better for it next year. Anyway, I enjoyed it and my daughter loved her pre-match dinner and shopping spree in the city. That far outweighed any negatives.

Life!....Enjoy it!

[Teflon]

The most ordinary sign was the piss-poor crowd - 24,746 at our home game against a top club that boasts 50,000+ members. We were still well outnumbered in the stands. It seems too many are content to sit home in front of the idiot box, listen to oracles-in-their-own-mind like BT and pass judgement on the team they support.

I've just got home, 12 hours and several hundred kilometres after leaving for the game. For what its worth I thought we would cop a walloping but 46 points was really pretty good. We were wasteful and it wasn't a case of Hawthorn mucking around. Anybody who thinks that are discrediting StKilda's pressure it applied for most of the night. There were lapses in concentration that proved costly but generally we had the Hawks going backwards and sideways most of the night. In case some of you haven't noticed Hawthorn is an elite team.

Of the first year players Tom Lee disappointed me tonight due to his ordinary application of defensive skills. The rest gave us reason to keep paying up our membership. Gwilt was clearly not right and we tend to forget that he, Roberton and Dempster are back pockets or flankers at best. Some on this site question Gwilt's value to the team when he clearly sacrifices himself every week taking on monster forwards. He always fights out of his weight division. That is the crux of our woes, the lack of any key defenders. Sammy Fisher was never right for this season and we are desperately missing Gilbert's run and long kicking out of defence (wherever his kicks land!). We also miss BJ's class and we tend to undervalue Gram's run out of defence but they are the past. Any injury has just compounds the situation.

A real plus tonight was the return of Schnieder, who has now completed 4 quarters for the season, and Blake. Now Blakey might be at the end of the line but he was very good tonight and did well on Roughead in the second half. Leaving him out of the team just makes chopping blocks out of the younger blokes.

You get a far better perspective of our progress (or lack of) looking down on the game from Level 3 than you ever will watching the TV or listening to half-interested commentators. We have two home games left, our supporters need to make an effort to get to them.

We might end up with only 3 wins for the season but will be vastly better for it next year. Anyway, I enjoyed it and my daughter loved her pre-match dinner and shopping spree in the city. That far outweighed any negatives.

Good on you mate - great effort!!

[plugger66]

To be fair, I reckon more people leave this site due to you, Sir Plugger, than Wayne42...

This site borders on idiotic purely because 90% of the posters hang on pluggers every word.
The choice is yours, but, it does reflect on your knowledge of AFL football, undermanned style

Can I suggest not many care what I say but clearly no one gives a rats what you say because you have no abilty to say anything. Im happy to debate footy with you when you eventually attend school.

To be fair neither of us even mentioned but you just did but if you were to leave because this site because of me then go ahead. Im pretty sure no one will miss you.

Anyway back on topic. Id had a few when I posted last night and it seems many if not all think I have got it wrong but thats ok its just my opinion. Every year we have multiple threads on how good certain young players are. I could look back and find many on Heyne, Miles, johnson etc and most of the time the young players are delisted without making a big impact on the club. Every club is like this not just us. Even current players like Simpkin, Stanley, Siposs and Ledger have had many threads on how good they are or can be. Lets be honest all those 4 young players have gone backwards this year for reason that are hard to explain. The positive on Stanley is he has played many in a row without injury and this injury isnt a soft tissue injury. He is a big guy and they take time but I would think he hasnt been in the best this year in his 5th year of footy.

So what the hell am I talking about? fair question. I dont have a clue. Well I do. The point of what I just mentioned is we have plenty of first and second year plyers in and out of the side this year and whilst we seem to find positives for all of them, me being the same, nearly half if not more will have little impact on the club in a few years time. And I hear what people have said about you cant expect young kids to be in the best all the time or show how good they will eventually be and the examples are correct when you look at Hayes, Joey etc in their first couple of years. What disappoints me though is none seem to ever get in the best. Even once or twice a year would be nice. Its always our older guys. Every single week. Armo in about his 17th game got 3 brownlow votes. Jack kicked 3 goals against Geelong in about his 4th game to basically win it for us. I like Wright, Saunders, Webster etc but its time we didnt have the same guys in the best every week because most of those same guys arent going to be at our club in a few years time. And that is why I was a bit disappointed last night. Sorry for sounding so down but I think its going to be a long slow fight up the ladder. And I want to be proved wrong. It would be a great thrill.

[spert]

Just a plodding along effort from our senior players again tonight. Probably time for Lenny to retire, and maybe NDS should move on..a soft effort last night. Thank God Schneider showed some hunger for the ball. Minchington, Curren, Saunders, Murdoch and Webster are a solid base, but most likely 2015,16 before we see the results.

[mullet]

I just hope we survive in Victoria. We have no support. Pathetic crowd.

Hawks have 60000 members, they werent there either. Its all relative.

[Middo]

So we have no top 10 draft picks and our kids don't get in the best ..?
Pretty much says it all I reckon as we don't have the Wingards , Cameron's , Vlaustins , Dusty etc etc etc which says its going to take time and a few high picks and then the kids start to support the ageing stars .
Pretty simple Pluggs ...

[kosifantutti]

To be fair, I reckon more people leave this site due to you, Sir Plugger, than Wayne42...

Can I suggest not many care what I say but clearly no one gives a rats what you say because you have no abilty to say anything. Im happy to debate footy with you when you eventually attend school.

To be fair neither of us even mentioned but you just did but if you were to leave because this site because of me then go ahead. Im pretty sure no one will miss you.

Anyway back on topic. Id had a few when I posted last night and it seems many if not all think I have got it wrong but thats ok its just my opinion. Every year we have multiple threads on how good certain young players are. I could look back and find many on Heyne, Miles, johnson etc and most of the time the young players are delisted without making a big impact on the club. Every club is like this not just us. Even current players like Simpkin, Stanley, Siposs and Ledger have had many threads on how good they are or can be. Lets be honest all those 4 young players have gone backwards this year for reason that are hard to explain. The positive on Stanley is he has played many in a row without injury and this injury isnt a soft tissue injury. He is a big guy and they take time but I would think he hasnt been in the best this year in his 5th year of footy.

So what the hell am I talking about? fair question. I dont have a clue. Well I do. The point of what I just mentioned is we have plenty of first and second year plyers in and out of the side this year and whilst we seem to find positives for all of them, me being the same, nearly half if not more will have little impact on the club in a few years time. And I hear what people have said about you cant expect young kids to be in the best all the time or show how good they will eventually be and the examples are correct when you look at Hayes, Joey etc in their first couple of years. What disappoints me though is none seem to ever get in the best. Even once or twice a year would be nice. Its always our older guys. Every single week. Armo in about his 17th game got 3 brownlow votes. Jack kicked 3 goals against Geelong in about his 4th game to basically win it for us. I like Wright, Saunders, Webster etc but its time we didnt have the same guys in the best every week because most of those same guys arent going to be at our club in a few years time. And that is why I was a bit disappointed last night. Sorry for sounding so down but I think its going to be a long slow fight up the ladder. And I want to be proved wrong. It would be a great thrill.

I'm just glad you didn't go through with your promise. I was up all night worried about you.

[saint-stu]

Is it healthy to be so negative?

Anyway, I was really happy with what I saw from Saunders. And by the way, HE'S ONLY 18! Great speed, great composure, good skills. Can't wait to see what he's like at 23.

The same goes for when Nathan Wright has played this year. Very exciting.

I was a bit worried about Tommy Lee early this year, but I think he has continually improved as the year has gone on. Even when he's not clunking marks, he was often bring the ball to the ground.

How many of our gun players were fantastic in their first year? I don't remember many. Most showed glimpses, just as these young guys are now.

[PJ]

Our old players were divided between the good and the bad. Roo was rubbish, worst set shot in the league. Lenny slow, schneids had half a game and was productive.

Monty and Dal are our only good "old" players so clearly we need to trade this year. I'd be happy for peg leg to chuck it in next year (sorry time has come and we are not ready to move on - structurally)

Kids were OK in patches which is what kids are supposed to be - clearly it's the old brigade that are not holding up their end, they are supposed to be better.

[plugger66]

So we have no top 10 draft picks and our kids don't get in the best ..?
Pretty much says it all I reckon as we don't have the Wingards , Cameron's , Vlaustins , Dusty etc etc etc which says its going to take time and a few high picks and then the kids start to support the ageing stars .
Pretty simple Pluggs ...

Yes I understand that and have said it many times. We get excited by our young kids but few over pick twenty will be anything more than Gops. Its just the way it is. I see good signs in most of them but like I said people saw good signs in Miles, Heyne and so on and also we have pumped up our third and fourth year players like Stanley and Siposs and if anything they have gone backwards.

One or two of the current kids will lead us up the ladder but the recruiting needs to be brillant in the next 3 years.