Lets Be Honest! Its the coaching.

[plugger66]

No idea how to do a link. Look in search under prediction and your name.

[Cairnsman]

No idea how to do a link. Look in search under prediction and your name.

Ok yep. Got it and that post/prediction was made on 25th Jan and then it looks like I have revised my prediction just prior to round 1 based on our pre-season...either way I only changed it by lowering us down by at least 3 spots.

[Playon]

My God there are some idiots on this forum

Its quite obvious to most people with a functioning brain that the reason for our below average ladder position this year can be put down to

1. A large proportion of games missed by structural important senior players due to injury - Fisher, Gilbert, Schneidner, Hayes, Maister
2. Other senior players now officially past it - Kosi, Blake, Milne
3. These senior players being replaced by players with less than 30 games experience - everyone knows who they are
4. Losing Goddard
5. Improvement of middle teir teams around us that have been down longer than us and have acquired highly rated yongsters with picks significantly lower than ours who now have games under their belts
6. Pathetic drafting during the Lyon years

The only thing worse than armchair critics are armchair critics that have no friggin idea

See above, let reality strike

[gringo]

I can't see how people think we still have "the same players" and that this season is clearly SW and the coaching staffs fault.

Our list is f***ed right now. We either have aging stars or kids with < 40 games experience. None of that is SW fault. He inherited the list that has massive gaps in the middle. We have no proper full-back, we are still developing a 2nd key forward (Lee) and half our midfield and halfback line has played < 20 games.

It doesn't surprise me that we run out of legs in 2nd halves, we need more pre-seasons in the kids.

Anyone who thinks are SIGNIFICANTLY better than 3-16 is delusional in my opinion.

Can you explain 12 wins last year? I get amazed by these comments. I reckon 95% of people would not have thought we would go from 12 wins to 3. People aho say they thought that are telling a few untruths IMO.

No one predicted it but the fact that he made the hard call on Kosi and Blake were long term and he was without several key seniors and lost Gram and goddard in the off season. Bulldogs still have Cooney, Griffen, Murphy, Gia, Cross, Boyd, Minson etc who are all very good we probably have the same concentration of old guys but they also have a stronger middle tier. We are behind them and the fact is we probably over achieved last year.

Melbourne were more competitive before losing senior players. It's not a hard equation that if you lose the older guys you drop away unless you have some miraculous recruiting luck. We don't have any option but to safe guard our future by ramming games into our kids and hope several become guns.

[BigMart]

How can it be said that

We over achieved last year? Is that to justify this year?

How do you overachieve in footy (besides peptides)??

You achieve what you deserve..... I would have thought a 50% decline a distinct possibity.... Not 75% decline??

Poor year.... By any measure.... Right now, a basket case...

[SydneySainter]

For those who think we could have won up to 8 games this year with the injection of a better coach, I think that's wishful thinking.

Lyon probably would have squeezed more wins into this season, but seriously, look at our list. The top 6 hasn't changed since the GF days, it's only gotten older and now missing BJ. As for the kids, apart from Jack, who really looks like they'll unquestionably be a gun in the future? We have high hopes for Ross, Lee, Wright and Saunders, but we need to see more before we declare them as future superstars.

I'm far from sold on SW and we are clearly missing the Lyon structures that made us so competitive, but like Lyon was in denial about our demise in 2011, I think some of us are still in denial about how good our list still is. Lyon clearly wasn't interested in sticking around to rebuild the mess he helped create.

[Cairnsman]

How can it be said that

We over achieved last year? Is that to justify this year?

How do you overachieve in footy (besides peptides)??

You achieve what you deserve..... I would have thought a 50% decline a distinct possibity.... Not 75% decline??

Poor year.... By any measure.... Right now, a basket case...

You are only out 25% then. Does that mean your numeracy is as bad as your literacy? Basket case...pffft!

[BigMart]

Ross Lyon, Alastair Clarkson, MM would have got better results.... Possibly 6-12 given injuries

[SydneySainter]

Ross Lyon, Alastair Clarkson, MM would have got better results.... Possibly 6-12 given injuries

12 wins with our list?

[Cairnsman]

Ross Lyon, Alastair Clarkson, MM would have got better results.... Possibly 6-12 given injuries

But would they be able to win a flag with the current list...this will be interesting.

[BigMart]

No 6W 12L

Sorry

[SydneySainter]

No 6W 12L

Sorry

Ahh, okay then. I agree.

[Cairnsman]

No 6W 12L

Sorry

But could those coaches have taken the currently list to a flag?

[BigMart]

Cairnsman, you're getting in the obsessed zone... Like old mate....

[BigMart]

With 6w 12l

Not sure how you win a flag? Not sure you make 1 iota of sense.... But carry on, regardless.... You normally do?

[Cairnsman]

Cairnsman, you're getting in the obsessed zone... Like old mate....

Not at all. I come here to have discussions with challenging posters like you, sorry I meant I come here to have challenging discussions with posters like you and you make some pretty broad based claims with authority that never seem to be backed up adequately.

[BigMart]

It's a fan forum

Broad based claims, inflammatory comments are common place

As is pole smoking and mutual masturbation

And also obsession and stalking....

Carry on..

[dragit]

pole smoking

That's what I thought you've been talking about for years now…

Rossy may well have eeked out a win or two more this year, but you know very well that we would be no closer to a flag, most likely further away… we probably wouldn't have seen Webster, Wright, Ross, Ferguson, Hickey, Saunders or Murdoch… Polo, Peake, Clarke & Blake would be leading us safely to 6 - 12.

[BigMart]

Correct, I agree

I was just asked the question

The flag lies with your core

Our core = Armitage, Ray, Gilbert, Steven, McEvoy, Geary..... Not sure there a flag there?

[BigMart]

BTW

Would you trust SW with a challenging team... On tactical evidence... Above say, one of the few I mentioned?

Right now, the coaching ability isn't really significant... Like 2001/2/3 but I wish GT handed over in 2004

[dragit]

BTW

Would you trust SW with a challenging team... On tactical evidence... Above say, one of the few I mentioned?

Right now, the coaching ability isn't really significant... Like 2001/2/3 but I wish GT handed over in 2004

Probably not, I have been critical of the watters too… but until he is driving a decent car you can't really say that he can't drive…

Malthouse & Clarkson have steered club to 3 wins too… ross declined the honor.

[Cairnsman]

Correct, I agree

I was just asked the question

The flag lies with your core

Our core = Armitage, Ray, Gilbert, Steven, McEvoy, Geary..... Not sure there a flag there?

I reckon Armo, Steven, McEvoy and Geary are candidates for a core, whereas I reckon Ray and Gilbert are required transition players. Our core could also include in the next few years, Webster, Wright, Newnes, Ross, Saunders and Murdoch. Next year we could end up with three first rounders and a future tall full back that is ably backed up by Simpkin, Roberton. Then because we will probably be bottom 4 for the next year or two we could end up with a few other quality draft picks. Throw in Tom Lee as a potential A grade FF and supported by Rhys. I think I've miss a few players or points but if you have a look at that short grab you should be able to work out that our future started with the drafting in 2011 and will hopefully be done by about 2014ish. By then hopefully we are looking at the core and not your bloody minded and short sighted view of where you think things are. And finally there is absolutely now way you are a teacher. If you are then that means I'm a gynaecologist.

[Greg T]

[quote="spert.

The qualities of a good coach is getting the best out of the bottom six...natural progression...really.

Not sure how involved Watters is in things like the Goddard negotiation. Some of that would surely be the responsibility of Bains/Pelchen.
Lynch was going at around the time Watters was coming. ( Trade week was still going but Lynch had already flown to S.A. for a fitness test when Watters appointment was announced ).
I'm pretty sure he wasn't to blame for Jesus Christ getting hung on a cross either.

As if the senior coach would not be involved in talks regarding one of your very best players.
I find that laughable if that was the case.
I heard SW state many times they were not prepared to give him 4 years during the talks,
Hence my comment the it was a situation handled poorly,and to be honest,I never felt SW wanted Goddard to stay.
Maybe a power play there.It cat inky affected other players as well.
I take the advice on Lynch,

[Greg T]

Couldn't agree more. It's always interesting to ask the "Coach knockers" for specific and objective examples of why they think the things they do regarding the coach.

Blaming SW for Goddard leaving is a laughable example of how misguided the "Coach knockers" are.[/quote]

Never blamed him for Goddard leaving.His handling of it was poor as was the clubs negotiations.
No coach would ever want a 2 time premiership player to go.But SW wasn't going to give him the 4 years.
Certainly think that had an adverse effect to the rest of the playin group as well.

[Greg T]

Certainly agree with this.
Maybe he's bitten off more than he can chew .He would of been aware of his situation when e signed.
No rocket science in playing the kids.its all a natural progression.
His handling of Goddard was poor .As if Ess would get rid of Watson.Was Lynch under his watch also?
Hopefully our overpaid CEO will not extend his contract until and if it is warranted this time next year
But our history will suggest otherwise..Will they ever learn ?
I'm looking more forward to getting a gun Pres,than listening to SW for the next 12 mths.

What you and spert are doing is "fondly" remembering RL and hIs stkilda two years prior to RL's departure
We were sliding down the ladder WHEN Lyon left, AND you are comparing our "stars" who are now three years older/gone.
Goddard was a broken and flawed player in those last two years before Lyon left.
Comparing Goddard and Watson is just plain rediculous. And I admit to a warm fuzzy feeling when Luke Ball out marked & slotted the goal last week against goddard
Lynch left because he did not see a future under Lyon, nothing to do with Watters.
So far Watters has only had one draft that he could influence and he inherited a terrible list to try and fix, and that is the "rocket science" fact.
But I will concede maybe you have a point about our overpriced CEO and non-existant President.[/quote

As a 2 time premiership player I clearly rate Goddard higher than you did.I never saw Bj as a flawed or broken player.
He would of made an excellent captain of our club. Watson may never be a premiership player , but Ess will never let a
player like that go IMO .Goddard to me was a s valuable as Watson is to Essendon.It really unbalanced the club.
The club had a chance to turn us into a power house during these years with RL but failed to capitalise on a lifetime of waiting .
That's what I fondly remember.Maybe these buffoons that appointed SW are more to blame from the powerhouse we could of
been to the dismal situation we find ourselves in now.