Changes to the list...

[ShanghaiSaint]

Delist
Clint Jones.

Retire
Lenny Hayes.
Nick Riewoldt.
Justin Koschitzke.
Jason Blake.
Stephen Milne.

Trade Nick Dal Santo for pick 25 or better. (Maybe Essendon)
Trade Leigh Montagna for pick 30 or better. (Maybe Hawthorn)

It is time to clear the decks and start again. Don't worry about what other people say. We may not have won a flag but we have been an awesome club since 2003. We did everything imaginable except win the dam thing. Lady luck did not smile on us because if she did we could have ended up winning 4 cups.

The reason I would make these changes is that we are going to be bottom 4 for the next 3 years anyway so better to play the new guys now. Don't waste any more games on players that are shot, except for Kosi, he deserves to get his 200th.

From this years Draft and for the next 3 we should just pick the best available youth possible. FFS, don't do any trades at all. Lets put our faith in our recruiters and just keep picking the best youngsters in the land and then develop them.

PS. I love Dal and Monty but no player is bigger than the club.

PPS. No need to worry about getting rid of too much experience. Offer Rooey and Kosi assistant roles.

Great idea city west, would you like to have three more years getting thrashed week in and out like gc or gws cuz if your plan was put in action that's what would happen.

[BigMart]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this thread. It's a completely legit discussion point, at this stage.

Out, hmmm.... Would need to think?

Blake, Koschitzke, Hickey, Lever, Jones, TDL, Milera, Ledger, Gilbert, NDS, Maister, Ray.... Just off the top of my head, Is that 12?.... Plus a plan for Lenny

In
1 A Grade mid.... Out of contract offered a better income than his current club can afford... Pre season draft
1 KPP traded for
1 B Grade Free Agent
1 from GWS or GC with Go home factor.... Buntine, Greene or something
1 Swap trade... For a player of more need, perhaps another tall
1 state league player... Could end up back up, nothing or Barlow?

4 or 5 From the ND

1/2 upgraded rookies

1/2 rookies, re-rookied

Need to consider current Rookies as to their worth

Something like that?

[skeptic]

Out, hmmm.... Would need to think?

Blake, Koschitzke, Hickey, Lever, Jones, TDL, Milera, Ledger, Gilbert, NDS, Maister, Ray.... Just off the top of my head, Is that 12?.... Plus a plan for Lenny

BM, can you break this down for me a bit please

More specifically, retire, delist, trade

I know for example that you're not a fan of Hickey, would you delist him him? Or do you mean trade while he has value.

No doubt Blake and Kosi retire... possibly Hayes too
Most likely I think your view would be to cut Maister, Ray, Jones, Ledger (grrr), Lever?

So what do you do with Hickey, Gilbert, NDS, Milera and TDL and at what price?

[ShanghaiSaint]

BM this where we need to follow the cats. Gently roll them in as others make way. Not a big whack. P66 is right it would kill us in membership plus sponsors... Thread has a point but it's a bad point IMO

[cwrcyn]

Milera
TDL
Blake
Koschitzke
Ledger
Milne

That would be my maximum.

Apart from the two key defensive positions, we are competitive in every other position, although our midfield needs some help. We need to squeeze every last drop out of Fisher, Hayes, Riewoldt, Schneider, Montagna, Jones, and DalSanto, who will all be in that 30+ aged bracket next year. Gilbert's absence this year has shown us how good he actually is and how important he is. I would move Riewoldt to CHB if we can't secure two key defenders in the trade and draft periods

So, Next year's team can be

Gwilt Fisher Dempster
Roberton Riewoldt Geary
Wright Steven Newnes
Schneider Lee Dal Santo
Saunders Maister Gilbert

McEvoy Montagna Jones

Inter: Hayes Armitage Ross Hickey

Emerg: Murdoch Ray Dunell

Now, if those guys are fit, it's still a competitive team. If you want new guys to learn their trade, then being amongst that group will help them. Take out 5 senior players just because you want to scrap it and start again will not do us any favours. It worked a treat for Melbourne, didn't it?

We are in for some serious pain, there's no doubt, but throwing the baby out with the bath water is not the answer.

[plugger66]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this thread. It's a completely legit discussion point, at this stage.

Out, hmmm.... Would need to think?

Blake, Koschitzke, Hickey, Lever, Jones, TDL, Milera, Ledger, Gilbert, NDS, Maister, Ray.... Just off the top of my head, Is that 12?.... Plus a plan for Lenny

In
1 A Grade mid.... Out of contract offered a better income than his current club can afford... Pre season draft
1 KPP traded for
1 B Grade Free Agent
1 from GWS or GC with Go home factor.... Buntine, Greene or something
1 Swap trade... For a player of more need, perhaps another tall
1 state league player... Could end up back up, nothing or Barlow?

4 or 5 From the ND

1/2 upgraded rookies

1/2 rookies, re-rookied

Need to consider current Rookies as to their worth

Something like that?

Hilarious. You have told us who you would get rid of and where we would get them no explain how. Hickey? Hilarious. Why not jack as he is only a fair player in your eyes.

[ShanghaiSaint]

i hope if Sloane wants to leave the crows we make a play for him.. imo he's perfect for what we need atm..

[matrix]

im with you shanghai
but i dont think he wants to leave and is happy where he is


OP

so you want to get rid of roo, lenny, dal and joey?

again?

give up
if anything dal and or joey might be up for trade, especially dal.
didnt think that a month or so ago but it wouldnt surprise me if he goes
dal easily has another 3 left in him, his body hasnt taken the battering that roo and lennys have

get rid of roo and leny
gee you gotta laugh

the day roo and lenny leave this club will be the day they retire, on their own terms

[Hemi Baxter]

13 list changes is only possible where there are multiple delistings plus either multiple retirements or trades. Best to start with what is certain.

Delisted: Lever
Next most likely: Ledger

Rookie delist: Ferguson, Shenton

Retirees: Blake, Kosi
Next most likely retirees: Hayes, Milne, Jones

Most likely trade: Fisher

That alreadygives you enough space to use every selection in the draft. In addition you'll find an argument with a healthy percentage of the fanbase if you chuck anyone out

[SainterK]

I just want to keep the senior guys who set a good example on field.

Who show desperation to win, do the team things, lead by example.

Few have fallen short of that in recent memory, sadly.

[gringo]

We don't have to bring in 13 untrieds...
List management has four or five avenues now...... Why not use them??

2001/2002 nearly half our list was churned.... We lost seniority.... Burke, Loewe and A Grade Talent Hall and Everitt

Drafted many
Traded for Hamill, Black, Gehrig, Gram, Penny and a few others
Used the Pre Season DP to use on uncontracted gap fillers..... Powell and Voss

I think that period was list management at its best.... A number of misses, but many hits and a core of a finals team was born...

Put all your eggs in the Draftkids basket, we end up like Melbourne....

Use Free Agency, Pre Season, National and Rookie Drafts, Trade in needs, scour the state leagues.

I would bring in 12
6 18yo
6 21-27..... 5 of which would have AFL experience.... 2 A Grade, 2 B grade, and another in need of an opportunity

The problem is if you cull the list back too hard it's hard to inspire players to join. Melbourne could only get hacks like Dawes and Byrnes to come while letting go some of their own guns like Maloney and Rivers???? Terrible idea to do similar. Bulldogs have a nice amount of senior experience still there but are developing kids along side them and it is starting to pay off more each week. they have recruited very well.

[BigMart]

What about 2001/2002 Gringo.... We culled more than 20 over two years.... Required then IMO, and we need similar proactive recruiting...

Couple of rules around list management IMO

Don't trade first round picks
Only draft 1 player older than 25, but no older than 28... With health check
Other previously listed players must be 24 or younger
Never draft players discarded or delisted, look for players with upside

Find a core team to go ahead with, a structure to go ahead with, and a succession plan for the exit of seniors for transition...

Players I like going fwd
Leadership Group
Montagna (c), McEvoy, Steven, Geary, Armitage, Gwilt, Free Agent
Seniors
Riewoldt, Schnieder, Hayes (ass coach), Fisher, Dempster

Siposs, Ross, Lee, Markworth, Newnes, Roberton, White, Saad, Stanley, Webster, Murdoch, Simpkin, Wright, Saunders, Dunnell, Minchington, Pierce, Curran, Ferguson, trade*4, State League Player, Draftees

Some tough calls probably
Hickey, just don't rate him as a potential fwd, don't need another Ruckman and I choose Ben
Jones, Delist... Good career
TDL, delist
Ledger, Trade to Freo for a 5th rounder? Upgrade about 10 positions on the last pick
Gilbert, Trade GWS/GC
Ray, Trade
Kosi, retire
NDS, Trade.... Big call.... But we need to make a move on one of our seniors with currency... Nth Melbourne?
Blake, Delist
Milera, Port/Adelaide.... For a 'go home' target.... C Grader with upside
Lever, Delist
Maister, Delist

Shenton, Curran, Staley, Minchington, Ferguson.... Upgrade 1, re rookie 1 and delist 2

[SaintPav]

Can't drop the F word but this <edited by MOD> is allowed to keep posting.

What a <edited by MOD>.

SaintPav

I can't see where citywest has breached rules in this post or other recent ones ... but you have ... twice in this post. I am turning a blind eye but have edited.

City West is a troll and this would not be put up on Filth, Essendope or hawks boards.

[evertonfc]

Some changes are needed, sure, and we need to keep investing in new, fresh blood.

But some older players to help create an elite culture won't hurt, just quietly.

It's clearly an issue at, say, Melbourne, and has been a big factor in the Swans success.

[BigMart]

The list needs quality mid age players.... 100-200 gamers....

We don't have enough, the demographic of the list is not a bell curve.... It's an inverted U

We should not get rid of all quality seniors, but we need to part with those whose performance won't be missed and/or could get us a deal on a younger player who may play finals one day.

[borderbarry]

We currently have the worse Saints side there has been for years. All players struggling to make the senior team (developing players not included), should be moved on. And we should use the rookie list again. We did not use it last year. All rookies will have been here 2 or 3 years. If they are not worth promoting they should go.

[BackFromUSA]

Can't drop the F word but this <edited by MOD> is allowed to keep posting.

What a <edited by MOD>.

SaintPav

I can't see where citywest has breached rules in this post or other recent ones ... but you have ... twice in this post. I am turning a blind eye but have edited.

City West is a troll and this would not be put up on Filth, Essendope or hawks boards.

SaintPav

I don't know for a fact who citywest supports. For a moment lets assume he is an opposition supporter ... explain to me where he breaches the troll or opposition supporter rule? He simply states his opinion. 99.9% may disagree but he isn't breaching these rules:
Do not spam the forum board with multiple posts designed to disrupt the harmony of the board.

Each disruption may be eligible for an official warning and probably ban and / or account deletion.

TROLL POLICY

“Trolls” are defined as posters who have the only goal to create friction and anger in our community.

Any poster, who has the sole aim to create friction and anger in our community will receive an official warning.

OPPOSITION SUPPORTER POLICY

Opposition supporters are welcome to post in a respectful manner and within forum rules, but should their goal be to disrupt our community, they will be deleted immediately WITHOUT warning.

[matrix]

[The Saintsational Man]

Since we're saying goodbye to - Jones, Hayes, Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Blake, Milne, Dal Santo & Montagna.

Please explain to me, who we're going to pay to make up for the loss on our total player payments for next season?

Don't forget, you can't just cut down your salary expenses to what ever you like, you have to pay a minimum of 92.5% (I think).

Let's not forget, Hayes, Riewoldt, Milne, Dal Santo & Montagna have all had multiple All-Australian selections throughout their careers and you want to cast off that kind of experience?

You Sir, are a complete IDIOT!!!

[st_Trav_ofWA]

ill say

Retire:
Kosi
Blake
Milne
Lenny

Delist:
Ledger
Milera

Lenny may go round again but im thinking he prob wont , Milera i reckon will get his wish to be sent back to SA but i doubt a trade will be made so we will just cut him and the crows or Port will either rookie or late draft pick him - the other one i would be watching closly would be shnieds the body is letting him down so he may choose to pull the pin

[borderbarry]

I also think we should retire Blake, Kosi, Milney, but I would try and get another season out of Lenny. Schneids has not had much of a season, if he can see out the last few games I would hope for another season for him as well, and Rooey is in the same boat.
I would put up for trade all of the other senior players.
McEvoy and Dal Santo I would offer to GWS with pick 3, for Jonathon Paton and Taylor >>>>>>, plus pick 10 and 35
Melbourne may still be interested in Farren Ray, say for pick36. We would then have picks 10, 21, 35, 36, 37, and 54, (assuming Essendon lose their 2013 draft picks).

[st_Trav_ofWA]

What about 2001/2002 Gringo.... We culled more than 20 over two years.... Required then IMO, and we need similar proactive recruiting...

Couple of rules around list management IMO

Don't trade first round picks - what about to upgrade picks ? or for a big name player ??
Only draft 1 player older than 25, but no older than 28... With health check - i would say in this day and age every player will undergo a health check , its not the 1970's
Other previously listed players must be 24 or younger - Ok
Never draft players discarded or delisted, look for players with upside - how does a previously listed player become available then ? surely they would have had to been delisted at some stageotherwise it would be a trade not a draft pick

Find a core team to go ahead with, a structure to go ahead with, and a succession plan for the exit of seniors for transition...

Players I like going fwd
Leadership Group
Montagna (c), McEvoy, Steven, Geary, Armitage, Gwilt, Free Agent - what free agent do you want cause besides Buddy and Daisy the rest are too old or averageSeniors
Riewoldt, Schnieder, Hayes (ass coach) - again its not the 1970's if lenny continues he should be giving 100% in playing or if he coaches he should be putting in 100% into coaching not half arseing it , Fisher, Dempster

Siposs, Ross, Lee, Markworth, Newnes, Roberton, White, Saad, Stanley, Webster, Murdoch, Simpkin, Wright, Saunders, Dunnell, Minchington, Pierce, Curran, Ferguson, trade*4, State League Player, Draftees

Some tough calls probably
Hickey, just don't rate him as a potential fwd, don't need another Ruckman and I choose Ben - right and if Ben go's down and Stanley is still looking like tarzan and playing like Jane?
Jones, Delist... Good career - right so in the team who are full of young bodies you will delist one of our strongest tacklers and best protective players rightyo
TDL, delist - yep so if Milne go's Milera go's Schnieds is out that leave Saad who is in poor form as the only small
Ledger, Trade to Freo for a 5th rounder? Upgrade about 10 positions on the last pick - yes cause Freo will gladly help us for a player they dont even need that they could pick up for nothing anyway ...
Gilbert, Trade GWS/GC - what pick do you think GC or GWS will give for Gilbo ? they got kids already playing better than he does so why would they want to pay for gilbo ?
Ray, Trade - again we will get nothing for him better off having him in our team then trading for pick 70
Kosi, retire
NDS, Trade.... Big call.... But we need to make a move on one of our seniors with currency... Nth Melbourne? - yep lets follow the Dee's path cause that works so well for them
Blake, Delist - he will prob retire so we wont delist him as such
Milera, Port/Adelaide.... For a 'go home' target.... C Grader with upside - more like a late draft pick if anything i doubt either SA sides will be moving heaven and earth for him , he will prob end up rookied by one of them
Lever, Delist
Maister, Delist - no point in delisting him he has value as a big body while the likes of Lee and White develop

Shenton, Curran, Staley, Minchington, Ferguson.... Upgrade 1, re rookie 1 and delist 2

[Con Gorozidis]

If we delist CJ - what do people think of trying Geary as our Premier tagger?

Hes never going to win us a game as a midfielder or defender. I admire him as a player but I also recognise his limitations.

Can he be our Ryan Crowley?

[plugger66]

If we delist CJ - what do people think of trying Geary as our Premier tagger?

Hes never going to win us a game as a midfielder or defender. I admire him as a player but I also recognise his limitations.

Can he be our Ryan Crowley?

No he cant because Ryan Cowley is about 6 foot 2 and can play on all size mids. geary can only play on the smaller mids.

[Con Gorozidis]

If we delist CJ - what do people think of trying Geary as our Premier tagger?

Hes never going to win us a game as a midfielder or defender. I admire him as a player but I also recognise his limitations.

Can he be our Ryan Crowley?

No he cant because Ryan Cowley is about 6 foot 2 and can play on all size mids. geary can only play on the smaller mids.

Ok ok - Can Geary play as a tagger on a smaller mid then?

Lord knows there are plenty of 'smaller' mids who have destroyed us this year.