Why We're Now Paying the Price

[SaintPav]

Good stuff Dragit.

Cats time in the darkness will come, eventually. Might be sooner than people think.

[Wayne42]

Good stuff Dragit.

Cats time in the darkness will come, eventually. Might be sooner than people think.

Cats darkness might not come at all either, they aren't as easy to predict as the Bulldogs and the Saints are.

I think they'll stay there abouts, they just do it better, In spite of their recorded draft history

[Teflon]

could the cats after 3 flags give a <edited by MODS> if they spend some time in the darkness?

After that Id need a spell in the drakness for the grog to wear off.

Here we are....in the darkness with our <edited by MODS> in hand and nothing in the cupboard.....

[Cairnsman]

could the cats after 3 flags give a <edited by MODS> if they spend some time in the darkness?

After that Id need a spell in the drakness for the grog to wear off.

Here we are....in the darkness with our <edited by MODS> in hand and nothing in the cupboard.....

Fred Niles and his new rules are going to ruin this site. Who gave him this all wielding power.

[bergholt]

So we really need to be headed in that direction ,regardless of what it takes.

What it takes is money. We just had a crowd of 14 thousand at one of our home games. Where does the money come from?

[Cairnsman]

So we really need to be headed in that direction ,regardless of what it takes.

What it takes is money. We just had a crowd of 14 thousand at one of our home games. Where does the money come from?

Play games in Cairns and you get heaps.

[dragit]

The <edited by MODS> geelong <edited by MODS> advertiser can <edited by MODS> <edited by MODS> suck my <edited by MODS>

[8856brother]

The <edited by MODS> geelong <edited by MODS> advertiser can <edited by MODS> <edited by MODS> suck my <edited by MODS>

YMBFJ LMFAO.

[supersaints]

I like Thommo a lot, but think he should realise that the Luke Ball thing came about because he had continued to play him injured as a human battering ram. I still clearly remember seeing Ball unable to stand up after matches in the rooms.
Don't think that many posters would believe Ball would have recovered (the way we managed him). Credit to the Filth for his re-hab.
Ball appeared just about finished when he went , the only really, really bad part at the time was getting stuff all for him , I squarely leave that on Lyons head. We should have at least got something reasonably decent for him.
Also we lost Goddard but they lost Ablett . It,s Just their compensation for a guy who they got for basically nothing ( 40's pick) was again rewarded.

[CURLY]

I seriously dont think people understand the huge leg up the Father Son rule has given Geelong. Also just for the record Geelongs kids are no better than other clubs just there not exposed and scrutinised as much as say ours as they are winning. Have a look at the numbers that some of their so called gun kids are getting and there not great.

[joffaboy]

2001
Took Bartel, Kelly, Johnson before having to take Ablett @ pick 40 - who they then got 2 first round draft picks for after a brownlow and 2 flags…
2002
Mackie & lonergan taken before father-son selection Tim Callan - who knows if they would have taken him earlier with the current system?

2003
Traded pick 20 for David Haynes (played 19 games)
Took Kane Tenace with pick 7 (played 54 games, was no good)
Took Cameron Thurley with pick 22 (played 7 games for geelong, 12 in total)
All before another father son Mark Blake

2004
Took prismal with their first pick 32
Before yet another FS N Ablett

2005
Took Stephen Owen with pick 35
Gamble with 47

2006 (my favourite as this literally forced the FS rule change)
Took Selwood with pick 7
Took Nathan Djerrkura with 25
Then took Hawkins with pick 41 although he was rated as a top 3, probably #1 pick

2007
Gave their former captain and premiership ruckman Stephen King (+charlie gardiner) up for pick 90 so they could keep Blake
Took Scott Simpson with pick 44 (never played a game)

The old faulty FS rule has been a much bigger factor in their success than anything else…

Look at the bloody (is bloody alright to say or will I be banned by the Festival of Light?) FS's they got AND the players they picked up before they chose players like Abblett (x2) Blake and Hawkins

Scarlett was also a FS. Would be interested to know what Geelong got for free in that draft.

Geelong Advetiser - another poorly written Murdoch rag full of inept low brow tabliod journo's (is it OK to say low brow, didn't upset any kiddies did I?)

[oh when the]

geelong & swans have the same structues in place for their clubs.

[CURLY]

Just think at the end of 06 when both Geelong and StKilda finished outside the 8 Geellong received two top five draft picks while StKilda received one. Makes a huge differance.

[gringo]

Geelong are 2 or three years off where we are at. They will have a talent hole when their seniors all go. Rivers and Mc Intosh are our Polo and Peake.

So in 2-3 years with Selwood, Taylor, Varcoe, Hawkins, Christensen, Motlop, Vardy, Duncan, Menzel, Murdoch, Caddy, Blicavs, Guthrie, Simpson and Smedts all in their prime you think Geelong will be where we are at now? Most of Bartel, Kelly, Mackie, Johnson and Lonergan will all still be around as well.

Geelong won't drop to the level we are at because they kept bringing young talent through the team instead of persisting with recycled GOPs and neglecting anyone who hadn't served their 'four year apprenticeship'

I think you will find that not all of those guys will be guns and they need to be very good. They might not drop down as far but they will struggle to replace their super star players as they go. We are starting a fair way back but the equalisation of the draft makes it harder.

[CURLY]

geelong & swans have the same structues in place for their clubs.

The Swans structure which allows them to spend more on players you mean?

[joffaboy]

geelong & swans have the same structues in place for their clubs.

The Swans structure which allows them to spend more on players you mean?

yes thats what he means. Sydney win a flag but can but Kurt Tippett. Geelong got heaps more 1st round dps because of the idiotic FS rort.

[oh when the]

no players want to play there

[CURLY]

geelong & swans have the same structues in place for their clubs.

The Swans structure which allows them to spend more on players you mean?

yes thats what he means. Sydney win a flag but can but Kurt Tippett. Geelong got heaps more 1st round dps because of the idiotic FS rort.

joffaboy, think of the follow on effect if McEvoy was a F/S and we got him for free and could have then picked Rioli/Dangerfield as the immediate need fo a ruckan was filled. This is what happened when Geelong where gifted the key forawrd they where desperate for.

[SaintPav]

Compared to us, no they wouldn't care. Obviously.

But they would care if they spent time at the bottom of the ladder for a couple of years. They'd hate it.

PS. Even if we won a flag, I'd still hate being at the foot of the ladder for 5 years.

[SinCitySainter]

It is cash plain and simple.
They develop players better than we do because they have the cash to field their own VFL team and employ the best support staff.
We cannot afford to do those things neither can the doggies, North or Melbourne.
None of the poor sides can sustain a continued period of success, we can have a couple of years then we need to rebuild.
Having your own development squad is a huge advantage.
It means you are bringing players through a system where the primary motivation is to develop good young players rather than win games.

[saintspremiers]

It is cash plain and simple.
They develop players better than we do because they have the cash to field their own VFL team and employ the best support staff.
We cannot afford to do those things neither can the doggies, North or Melbourne.
None of the poor sides can sustain a continued period of success, we can have a couple of years then we need to rebuild.
Having your own development squad is a huge advantage.
It means you are bringing players through a system where the primary motivation is to develop good young players rather than win games.

Cash helps but we had enough money to employ proper recruiting staff. ie compare Bains/Pelican to the previous clueless mob.

[saintspremiers]

Dragit you make fair points re The Cats gifted picks, but it still doesn't explain the utter DISGRACE that was our 2008/09 draft period. Speak to people who support other clubs and they are in shock how pathetic our drafting was in those key years (for 2013) are concerned.

That's only because it is highlighted so much compared to other clubs recruiting failures… and also because it is recent.

It was disasterous no doubt, but the point is that every club has whole years of failure - 2000 for the cats, the gave up 11, 27, 45 & 57 for J Murphy and M White

Wells is obviously a good recruiter and has had some great success, but remove the FS's and they are barely ahead of us over the past 10-15 years. Just silly to look at 1 or 2 years in isolation like the article does.

As GT pointed out, you need to consistently draft each year to a certain standard. Two consecutive terrible drafting years is too costly. FS covered up 2000. One year failure in isolation you may get away with with it.

[spert]

There is also a little bit of luck involved in success, and the father-son players in Ablett jr and sooky Scarlett just happened to be able to play senior footy at the highest level- both could have been just ordinary players in another time and place. Geelong also had a very lucky run with injuries during the premiership years, and kept their A team on the field, though probably better fitness management that us helped a bit too (plus I very strongly suspect a few jabs of Essendon juice along the way).
None of this can cover up our terrible recruiting and decision-making over that crucial few years

[SinCitySainter]

It is cash plain and simple.
They develop players better than we do because they have the cash to field their own VFL team and employ the best support staff.
We cannot afford to do those things neither can the doggies, North or Melbourne.
None of the poor sides can sustain a continued period of success, we can have a couple of years then we need to rebuild.
Having your own development squad is a huge advantage.
It means you are bringing players through a system where the primary motivation is to develop good young players rather than win games.

Cash helps but we had enough money to employ proper recruiting staff. ie compare Bains/Pelican to the previous clueless mob.

The cash use is in the development that is where it is best employed.
Being able to create an personalized development plan for each player is where the real advantages can be made.
All clubs recruit good and bad, sure some recruiters are fractionally better than others but it is how you develop the talent that is important.
That is where our lack of funds really hurts us.
Don't mistake what I am saying our recruitment was abysmal during the Lyon era and some of the Thommo too.
However, we could not develop properly a young guy like Lynch to play that 3rd forward role he moves to Adelaide, a club with plenty of cash and all of a sudden he is AFL class.
That is not a coincidence.

[Junction Oval]

Some good and interesting posting for a change - a good read.

For me - lack of recruiting resources has been a big drawback, but the poor recruiting lies squarely in the professionalism, or lack of it of our recruiters. A very, very simple example - how can a recruiting team justify so many selections, "who can't kick." Every over-the-fence supporter can see that.

Also, no doubt Ross Lyon caused a major interruption to recruiting by taking re-cycled players, which clearly, we are paying for today..... but it's not all his fault!