Why We're Now Paying the Price

[Sainternist]

Meanwhile, Geelong continues to flourish. Perhaps some of it is Captain Obvious stuff, but the article as least gives some clear cut reasons as to what went wrong.

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/art ... 0_gfc.html

St Kilda finds itself in a rebuilding phase, sitting 16th on the ladder with just three wins.

Rebuilding is a phrase that irks Thomas.

"Rebuilding is a ridiculous thing to adopt within an AFL club. What it basically says is you have got the past terribly, terribly wrong," he said.

"I suppose lesser clubs are satisfied to go down the bottom and use the draft to their advance. Whereas great clubs are always hovering around the finals and they are just making brave and courageous decisions to make sure they maintain their momentum.

"I think Geelong is a great example of that."

Let's hope the club can only learn from the past mistakes and make something better for the future. It's inevitavle it will be a real uphill climb for at least a couple of years, but it sure as hell won't be boring.

[Animal Enclosure]

Pfffff

Any mention on the massive disparity in spending/ available $ to spend within football departments (specifically recruiting & development?)

Geelong make between $500k- 750k for each home game at Kardinia... Stephen Wells has one of the best recruiting networks that money can buy as a result. There's no doubt that he's very good at what he does but there's a hell of a lot of support that he receives.

Development wise- their own VFL team makes a huge difference before you get into the number of coaches, etc.

Give Bevo, Peake & Trout the resources that Wells has had for the last decade & there would be very little difference in the drafting success rate. IMO...

[stinger]

Let's hope the club can only learn from the past mistakes and make something better for the future. It's inevitavle it will be a real uphill climb for at least a couple of years, but it sure as hell won't be boring.

"But what is even more unforgivable, according to Thomas, is St Kilda letting go of key players with no replacements found.

"You put those key backs (Matt Maguire and Zac Dawson) into St Kilda's team ... a Luke Ball and Brendon Goddard in the midfield ... a first-round draft pick like Tom Lynch, who kicked 10 goals in a game earlier this year, continues with his development ... all of a sudden I wouldn't be surprised if St Kilda was playing finals again this year," he said.

"Would Geelong get rid of Joel Selwood and Jimmy Bartel? No. "


.....great article.....

[gringo]

Geelong are 2 or three years off where we are at. They will have a talent hole when their seniors all go. Rivers and Mc Intosh are our Polo and Peake.

[Dr Spaceman]

Geelong are 2 or three years off where we are at. They will have a talent hole when their seniors all go. Rivers and Mc Intosh are our Polo and Peake.

[plugger66]

Let's hope the club can only learn from the past mistakes and make something better for the future. It's inevitavle it will be a real uphill climb for at least a couple of years, but it sure as hell won't be boring.

"But what is even more unforgivable, according to Thomas, is St Kilda letting go of key players with no replacements found.

"You put those key backs (Matt Maguire and Zac Dawson) into St Kilda's team ... a Luke Ball and Brendon Goddard in the midfield ... a first-round draft pick like Tom Lynch, who kicked 10 goals in a game earlier this year, continues with his development ... all of a sudden I wouldn't be surprised if St Kilda was playing finals again this year," he said.

"Would Geelong get rid of Joel Selwood and Jimmy Bartel? No. "


.....great article.....

Its a bit of hindsight in the article. Goose was struggling in the seconds when he left and Zac had the FB position as his. There was no spot for Goose but of course there would be now but i doubt he was going to play in the seconds until Zac left. Ball was also struggling in 2009 and was actually dropped once and rested to try and get more miles into his legs. Maybe the pies have a better medical area than us and got him fitter. They certainly have more money in the top draw than we would in the bank. The only nad draft piuck we gave away was for Lovett which obviously didnt work. All the others were over about pick 50 and after looking at some of the young kids we drafted it was probably felt recruiting experienced players couldnt be any worse than some of the young kids. Lets look at some of the trades for experianced players we did. Tep we got some duds but we also got MG, King, Schneider, Dempster and Ray. All very important players in the past and still now. Were as drafting of young kids only got us about 4 or 5 still at the club. As pointed out we just didnt have the budget to do the job that some other clubs do when we recruiting.

Still cant think of many complaining in 2009 and 2010 and anyone with any footy knowledge could see the way we recruited was going to leave us in the whole we are now.

[joffaboy]

Did they mention the FIVE Father Son picks that enabled them to use their first picks on players like Bartel, Kelly, Johnson, Selwood etc?

Basically 10 first round picks with Ablett and Scarlett beign absolute champions.

[plugger66]

Did they mention the FIVE Father Son picks that enabled them to use their first picks on players like Bartel, Kelly, Johnson, Selwood etc?

Basically 10 first round picks with Ablett and Scarlett beign absolute champions.

No because that would weaken the article.

[mad saint guy]

Geelong are 2 or three years off where we are at. They will have a talent hole when their seniors all go. Rivers and Mc Intosh are our Polo and Peake.

So in 2-3 years with Selwood, Taylor, Varcoe, Hawkins, Christensen, Motlop, Vardy, Duncan, Menzel, Murdoch, Caddy, Blicavs, Guthrie, Simpson and Smedts all in their prime you think Geelong will be where we are at now? Most of Bartel, Kelly, Mackie, Johnson and Lonergan will all still be around as well.

Geelong won't drop to the level we are at because they kept bringing young talent through the team instead of persisting with recycled GOPs and neglecting anyone who hadn't served their 'four year apprenticeship'

[spert]

Geelong basically have been smarter in various areas of club and player management- money aside. We on the other hand are classic under-achievers with a short-term view of how things should be run, and this has plagued us for decades.

[stinger]

Geelong basically have been smarter in various areas of club and player management- money aside. We on the other hand are classic under-achievers with a short-term view of how things should be run, and this has plagued us for decades.

+1,000,000

[Sainternist]

Geelong basically have been smarter in various areas of club and player management- money aside. We on the other hand are classic under-achievers with a short-term view of how things should be run, and this has plagued us for decades.

Hit. Nail. Head!

[ShanghaiSaint]

Meanwhile, Geelong continues to flourish. Perhaps some of it is Captain Obvious stuff, but the article as least gives some clear cut reasons as to what went wrong.

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/art ... 0_gfc.html

St Kilda finds itself in a rebuilding phase, sitting 16th on the ladder with just three wins.

Rebuilding is a phrase that irks Thomas.

"Rebuilding is a ridiculous thing to adopt within an AFL club. What it basically says is you have got the past terribly, terribly wrong," he said.

"I suppose lesser clubs are satisfied to go down the bottom and use the draft to their advance. Whereas great clubs are always hovering around the finals and they are just making brave and courageous decisions to make sure they maintain their momentum.

"I think Geelong is a great example of that."

Let's hope the club can only learn from the past mistakes and make something better for the future. It's inevitavle it will be a real uphill climb for at least a couple of years, but it sure as hell won't be boring.

Father sons can help ALOT... Trading your best Player to a team with a heap of 1st round picks can also help ALOT!

I am not buying this look at Geelong how smart they are... they got some sweet deals that we didn't. very differnt boat and I don't think we can be directly compared to them.

Look at it this way... Compare us to carlscum... how many freakin #1/top picks have they seen and what have they done in the last 6 years? NOTHING

[bergholt]

Any mention on the massive disparity in spending/ available $ to spend within football departments (specifically recruiting & development?)

Geelong make between $500k- 750k for each home game at Kardinia... Stephen Wells has one of the best recruiting networks that money can buy as a result.

I'm not sure why everyone ignored this post?

You're 100% right. Hoping for us to do just as well as Geelong or Collingwood at recruiting and development is ridiculous. We don't have the resources they have, and we probably never will. We need to make the most of our times at the top, because we just can't sustain it financially. Get used to it or give up, but don't complain - it's like complaining about the weather.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

honestly i am sick of all the Geelong comparison ... who gives a stuff about Geelong !! we are our own team we go out own path if anything geelong are the exception to the rule ... teams need to rebuild Geelong are having a blessed era followed by a second blessed era and good on them ..

[MC Gusto]

Geelong basically have been smarter in various areas of club and player management- money aside. We on the other hand are classic under-achievers with a short-term view of how things should be run, and this has plagued us for decades.

+1million

[ShanghaiSaint]

honestly i am sick of all the Geelong comparison ... who gives a stuff about Geelong !! we are our own team we go out own path if anything geelong are the exception to the rule ... teams need to rebuild Geelong are having a blessed era followed by a second blessed era and good on them ..

like it Trav!

[BigMart]

Sydney did not rebuild??

How long do you have to be out of the 8 in a rebuild?, how many years in the 8 before you must have a rebuild?

Collingwood had two years out in a rebuild.... Then 8 years in...

Melbourne 8 years out, none in???

Really it's different for every club, and depends on drafting and development...

[Greg T]

honestly i am sick of all the Geelong comparison ... who gives a stuff about Geelong !! we are our own team we go out own path if anything geelong are the exception to the rule ... teams need to rebuild Geelong are having a blessed era followed by a second blessed era and good on them ..

Why?
To me, nothing blessed about the way they go about it.
They've got it right ,and I don't think they fumble their way thru anything.
Something our club could learn from.
There player retention rate is also enviable.
The saints really need to step up another notch .
If the so called professionals at the club can't see this,
Where are we really at?.

[Greg T]

Geelong basically have been smarter in various areas of club and player management- money aside. We on the other hand are classic under-achievers with a short-term view of how things should be run, and this has plagued us for decades.

Absolutely brilliant.
So we really need to be headed in that direction ,regardless of what it takes.
It's annoying to be rebuilding.
Get the people in so we can have sustained success as we felt in 09 / 10
Loved the article....

[dragit]

Geelong basically have been smarter in various areas of club and player management- money aside. We on the other hand are classic under-achievers with a short-term view of how things should be run, and this has plagued us for decades.

This is just BS… and I am surprised so many on here have lapped it up.

Take out either their Father Sons or the first round picks they used instead and they would be lucky to have one flag let alone 3. At the same time we were 2 kicks away from 2 flags of our own… so to say that they are some amazing outfit and we are hopeless is pure sadist navel gazing.

People get so caught up thinking that we are the only club who makes mistakes… They had one bumper year 2001 like our 2000, apart from that, they have slaughtered as many top 25 picks as anyone.

I hope this makes everyone feel a little better…

Geelong draft fails

1998
Took Peter Street with pick 17
Took David A Clarke 21
1999
Took David Spriggs with pick 15
Took Ezra Bray ??? with pick 17
Took Daniel Foster with pick 23
All before taking Chapman, Ling & Enright
2000
traded for pick #11 for Justin Murphy
traded for Draft picks #27, #45, #57 for Mitchell White
traded 42 for Kent Kingsley
2001
Took Bartel, Kelly, Johnson before having to take Ablett @ pick 40 - who they then got 2 first round draft picks for after a brownlow and 2 flags…
They took Charlie Gardiner in front of Steve Johnson
2002
Traded Ronnie Burns for Ben Finnin, Burns 100+ games 200+ goals… Finnin never played a game.
Mackie & lonergan taken before father-son selection Tim Callan - who knows if they would have taken him earlier with the current system?
2003
Traded pick 20 for David Haynes (played 19 games)
Took Kane Tenace with pick 7 (played 54 games, was no good)
Took Cameron Thurley with pick 22 (played 7 games for geelong, 12 in total)
All before another father son Mark Blake
2004
Took prismal with their first pick 32
Before yet another FS N Ablett
2005
Took Stephen Owen with pick 35
Gamble with 47
2006 (my favourite as this literally forced the FS rule change)
Took Selwood with pick 7
Took Nathan Djerrkura with 25
Then took Hawkins with pick 41 although he was rated as a top 3, probably #1 pick
Took Simon Hogan with pick 57, retired after 22 games
2007
Gave their former captain and premiership ruckman Stephen King (+charlie gardiner) up for pick 90 so they could keep Blake
Took Scott Simpson with pick 44 (never played a game)
2008
Took another Mitch Brown with pick 15, is lucky to still be on a list.
Took Gillies with 33 (now can't get a game for Melbourne)
2009
traded pick 49 for Marcus Drum (no games for the cats)
Took Menzel with pick 17 (he'd already had 1 or 2 knee reco's)
2010
15 Smedts, 23 Guthrie, 37 Horlin-Smith too early to call I guess.
2011
Took Joel Hamling with their first pick 32 ? too early again

When you take 3 duds with your first 3 picks and then end up with a good player from pick 50+, that is luck.

The old faulty FS rule has been a much bigger factor in their success than anything else…

[Wayne42]

Does Wells know his own recruiting history, or does he choose not to correct the idiotic media who think he is the recruiting messiah ?

[saintspremiers]

Dragit you make fair points re The Cats gifted picks, but it still doesn't explain the utter DISGRACE that was our 2008/09 draft period. Speak to people who support other clubs and they are in shock how pathetic our drafting was in those key years (for 2013) are concerned.

[saintsRrising]

"But what is even more unforgivable, according to Thomas, is St Kilda letting go of key players with no replacements found.


.....great article.....

Obviously Thomas forgot he traded Everitt and Hall.

[dragit]

Dragit you make fair points re The Cats gifted picks, but it still doesn't explain the utter DISGRACE that was our 2008/09 draft period. Speak to people who support other clubs and they are in shock how pathetic our drafting was in those key years (for 2013) are concerned.

That's only because it is highlighted so much compared to other clubs recruiting failures… and also because it is recent.

It was disasterous no doubt, but the point is that every club has whole years of failure - 2000 for the cats, the gave up 11, 27, 45 & 57 for J Murphy and M White

Wells is obviously a good recruiter and has had some great success, but remove the FS's and they are barely ahead of us over the past 10-15 years. Just silly to look at 1 or 2 years in isolation like the article does.