International Rules 2013

[Viking3]

Sorry but i dont agree. No one can be racist to me in Australia. Im a white Australian and with parents and grand parents born here.

You're kidding aren't you?
If an Aboriginal calls you 'whitey' or a Greek calls you 'skip' you're vilified. Both racial terms for, as you say, "white Australian". Simple as that.[/quote]


I think you are the one kidding. You obviously have never been explained what racism is because calling me whitey or skip in Australia is not and will never be racist. I hope you are taking the piss otherwise you just dont get it at all. I doubt anyone on here or just about anywhere in Australia would agree with you.[/quote]

So you're saying whitey is not racist but black/y is???
Referring to anyone's color (white/black), religion or gender, as a negative, is racist.
I think you may be the one lacking knowledge here Pluggs.[/quote]


Yes i am saying that.[/quote]

[gringo]

"Sorry we don't have any jobs or houses to rent" because they see the guys skin colour- that's racism. Saying you won't consider picking kids with out one white parent is racist. Having a novelty touring team that all the stars pull out of anyway isn't.

[kp83]

Sorry but i dont agree. No one can be racist to me in Australia. Im a white Australian and with parents and grand parents born here.

You're kidding aren't you?
If an Aboriginal calls you 'whitey' or a Greek calls you 'skip' you're vilified. Both racial terms for, as you say, "white Australian". Simple as that.[/quote]


I think you are the one kidding. You obviously have never been explained what racism is because calling me whitey or skip in Australia is not and will never be racist. I hope you are taking the piss otherwise you just dont get it at all. I doubt anyone on here or just about anywhere in Australia would agree with you.[/quote]

So you're saying whitey is not racist but black/y is???
Referring to anyone's color (white/black), religion or gender, as a negative, is racist.
I think you may be the one lacking knowledge here Pluggs.[/quote]

Mate, he is not lacking knowledge in this subject and with every new post you write you are showing that you do.
Simple words like whitey or blacky do not constitute racism, it's the context that is important (and to spell it out for you, I'm talking about the specific history of white vs black in this country).
As I said before, I think it's sad that people are trying to play the racism card on this issue.

[gringo]

A white person can be vilified and technically racially abused but it doesn't have any real impact unless you are the white minority and a person who has been disadvantage or maligned for no reason other than skin colour or heritage. A lot of Irish people still get upset when they are racially abused and stigmatised as hopeless drunks and losers because the history of their people is one of discrimination and abuse by the English.

[mr six o'clock]

A white person can be vilified and technically racially abused but it doesn't have any real impact unless you are the white minority and a person who has been disadvantage or maligned for no reason other than skin colour or heritage. A lot of Irish people still get upset when they are racially abused and stigmatised as hopeless drunks and losers because the history of their people is one of discrimination and abuse by the English.

stereotype's wouldn't exist if there wasn't a certain amount of truth in them .

I'm a white male , I carn't say anything about anybody else without it being preceived as being racist !

so anyway here's a joke ;
why did the pervert cross the road ?
cos he could'nt get his knob out of the chicken !

now that joke is older than me

[BakesFan]

There is no racism if there's only ONE Race!

Call it rudeness, bullying or whatever else you like....... but calling it racism indicates that you're racist......because you need to be able to see some sort of distinction in order to identify it......

.....I still don't understand what 'race' is...can someone PLEASE explain it??...I can accept the concept of the human 'race'.........but how do you distinguish beyond that?.....what is 'race'?

I see people.....I can 'judge' them on their actions as individuals..... but I can't come at this idea of 'grouping' folk.....that somehow because of a skin colour, nationality or religious/political belief that they are pre-disposed to act a certain way or have a certain level of intellect.......

People are individuals.....and they all belong to the 'Human' race...... it's not that friggin' hard.

[bergholt]

So you're saying whitey is not racist but black/y is???
Referring to anyone's color (white/black), religion or gender, as a negative, is racist.
I think you may be the one lacking knowledge here Pluggs.

Nah, you're dead wrong on this mate. I'm sure Andrew Bolt told you all about racism applying to white people too but it just doesn't have the same implication or effect as when applied to a minority. Not even close. And it's stupid to pretend that it does - when did you last get offended by being called "whitey"?

[Viking3]

So you're saying whitey is not racist but black/y is???
Referring to anyone's color (white/black), religion or gender, as a negative, is racist.
I think you may be the one lacking knowledge here Pluggs.

Nah, you're dead wrong on this mate. I'm sure Andrew Bolt told you all about racism applying to white people too but it just doesn't have the same implication or effect as when applied to a minority. Not even close. And it's stupid to pretend that it does - when did you last get offended by being called "whitey"?

I'm not referring to implication or effect, I'm referring to what being racist is.
From the Oxford dictionary;

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races: theories of racism
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:a programme to combat racism

I repeat, anyone of any color can be a racist or be racially vilified.
Dead right.

[bergholt]

I'm not referring to implication or effect, I'm referring to what being racist is.
From the Oxford dictionary;

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races: theories of racism
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:a programme to combat racism

I repeat, anyone of any color can be a racist or be racially vilified.
Dead right.

An important part of that definition is about a race being seen as "superior", it's mentioned a couple of times. So you think the AFL sees indigenous players as being superior to non-indigenous players?

[Viking3]

I'm not referring to implication or effect, I'm referring to what being racist is.
From the Oxford dictionary;

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races: theories of racism
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:a programme to combat racism

I repeat, anyone of any color can be a racist or be racially vilified.
Dead right.

An important part of that definition is about a race being seen as "superior", it's mentioned a couple of times. So you think the AFL sees indigenous players as being superior to non-indigenous players?

I've used the definition to show it does not differentiate color. It is all inclusive. Any color can be construed to be racist to another. If you are referring to someone's color negatively it is obvious that you see yourself as "superior".
Having something 'White's only' is discriminatory.
Having something 'Indigenous only' is also discriminatory.
Quite simple.
I don't want to see any discrimination!!!!

[kp83]

I'm not referring to implication or effect, I'm referring to what being racist is.
From the Oxford dictionary;

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races: theories of racism
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:a programme to combat racism

I repeat, anyone of any color can be a racist or be racially vilified.
Dead right.

An important part of that definition is about a race being seen as "superior", it's mentioned a couple of times. So you think the AFL sees indigenous players as being superior to non-indigenous players?

I've used the definition to show it does not differentiate color. It is all inclusive. Any color can be construed to be racist to another. If you are referring to someone's color negatively it is obvious that you see yourself as "superior".
Having something 'White's only' is discriminatory.
Having something 'Indigenous only' is also discriminatory.
Quite simple.
I don't want to see any discrimination!!!!

There's obviously no point in arguing with you on this anymore, as your definition of racism is far too simplistic (as is that dictionary definition). I can speak from experience here, as I know what it's like to be called a monkey and a black c*n* based on my skin colour. It not only mentally hurts, but you get a physical sensation of pain in your gut. It's bloody awful (I'm actually staring to sweat now writing this) and it comes from ignorance and hate, built on a history of a majority putting down a minority. I challenge you to share with me a similar experience you have had in this country, when being called a whitey or a skip has made you feel the same way. As I mentioned previously, Racism is not just words, it is the history behind them.
To bring it back to the AFL decision, I can almost certainly guarantee you that Nick Riewoldt isn't sitting at home today thinking that it is unfair that he doesn't get to play a meaningless series against Ireland in a sport that only exists for 2 games at the end of a year. This is not racism, nor discrimination. It is a marketing tactic to try to bring enthusiasm to a series that is lacking that from the public. To continue to shout that this is discrimination and racism is naive and lame.

[Viking3]

From the Oxford dictionary;

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races: theories of racism
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:a programme to combat racism

I repeat, anyone of any color can be a racist or be racially vilified.
Dead right.

An important part of that definition is about a race being seen as "superior", it's mentioned a couple of times. So you think the AFL sees indigenous players as being superior to non-indigenous players?

I've used the definition to show it does not differentiate color. It is all inclusive. Any color can be construed to be racist to another. If you are referring to someone's color negatively it is obvious that you see yourself as "superior".
Having something 'White's only' is discriminatory.
Having something 'Indigenous only' is also discriminatory.
Quite simple.
I don't want to see any discrimination!!!!

There's obviously no point in arguing with you on this anymore, as your definition of racism is far too simplistic (as is that dictionary definition). I can speak from experience here, as I know what it's like to be called a monkey and a black c*n* based on my skin colour. It not only mentally hurts, but you get a physical sensation of pain in your gut. It's bloody awful (I'm actually staring to sweat now writing this) and it comes from ignorance and hate, built on a history of a majority putting down a minority. I challenge you to share with me a similar experience you have had in this country, when being called a whitey or a skip has made you feel the same way. As I mentioned previously, Racism is not just words, it is the history behind them.
To bring it back to the AFL decision, I can almost certainly guarantee you that Nick Riewoldt isn't sitting at home today thinking that it is unfair that he doesn't get to play a meaningless series against Ireland in a sport that only exists for 2 games at the end of a year. This is not racism, nor discrimination. It is a marketing tactic to try to bring enthusiasm to a series that is lacking that from the public. To continue to shout that this is discrimination and racism is naive and lame.[/quote]

Challenge accepted.
I am of German decent (born here) and copped a fair bit through High School being referred to as a Nazi etc. etc. Yes, what the Nazi's did was abhorrent, but what was used to goad me was done in a vilifying manner. Just so you know not all Germans are/were Nazi's.
Racism is simple, no discrimination, at all!
Happy to meet for a coffee or beer. Hey, I'm on your side.

[kp83]

Challenge accepted.
I am of German decent (born here) and copped a fair bit through High School being referred to as a Nazi etc. etc. Yes, what the Nazi's did was abhorrent, but what was used to goad me was done in a vilifying manner. Just so you know not all Germans are/were Nazi's.
Racism is simple, no discrimination, at all!
Happy to meet for a coffee or beer. Hey, I'm on your side.

I'm surprised, given your own experiences, that you would still say that "racism is simple..."
Anyway, as you said, we are on the same side in not wanting racism to exist. I can see the point you are making in wanting no discrimination at all. I guess the point we've all been trying to make is that rather than looking at this as discrimination against whites, perhaps look at this as promoting our talented indigenous footballers in an exhibition series that means very little to the general public.

PS. Of course I know that not all Germans are/were Nazi's. Only ignorant fools (like those at your school) would think as such.
Have you seen the movie Valkyrie? A great movie for showing that even high ranking officials in Hitler's army were opposed to his theories. Only problem with the movie is that Tom Cruise plays the lead role (Hollywood...sigh).

[stinger]

Patrick Keane ‏@AFL_PKeane "Indigenous All Stars to represent Australia in this year's International Rules Series v Ireland. Michael O'Loughlin to be Australian coach."

So.....what do we think???

Pretty average IMO. Players should be picked to represent Australia on their talent and ability, not based on their heritage or race. Pick the best side available, simple really.

Any relevance this series had left is now gone.

I knew people would have this reaction and to be honest I reckon it's a bit lame.
What is wrong with picking a team that will show-case our great indigenous talent? It's not as if the All-Australian team ever goes on these tours, so the other option would not be our best vs Ireland, it would be some decent Aussie players vs Ireland.
If this was Aus vs Ireland in Rugby and the ARU decided it would only allow indigenous players to play, then that would be an issue, but for these novelty series I don't see the need to jump up and down and claim reverse-racism (as others in this post have).
When it all boils down to it, the more we can do for reconciliation the better. After all, a lot has been taken from this race over the course of history. Is it that bad that these very small gestures be offered from time to time?

good post...

[stinger]

without buying into this argument , i find the word "skip" when used to discribe anglo australians highly offensive.....simply because the user intends it to be..........

[matrix]

not like this thread was ever going to NOT discuss white and black and whats racist and whats not now was it


and sort the quote functions out
it stops at around 3 and then is unreadable

[Viking3]

Challenge accepted.
I am of German decent (born here) and copped a fair bit through High School being referred to as a Nazi etc. etc. Yes, what the Nazi's did was abhorrent, but what was used to goad me was done in a vilifying manner. Just so you know not all Germans are/were Nazi's.
Racism is simple, no discrimination, at all!
Happy to meet for a coffee or beer. Hey, I'm on your side.

I'm surprised, given your own experiences, that you would still say that "racism is simple..."
Anyway, as you said, we are on the same side in not wanting racism to exist. I can see the point you are making in wanting no discrimination at all. I guess the point we've all been trying to make is that rather than looking at this as discrimination against whites, perhaps look at this as promoting our talented indigenous footballers in an exhibition series that means very little to the general public.

PS. Of course I know that not all Germans are/were Nazi's. Only ignorant fools (like those at your school) would think as such.
Have you seen the movie Valkyrie? A great movie for showing that even high ranking officials in Hitler's army were opposed to his theories. Only problem with the movie is that Tom Cruise plays the lead role (Hollywood...sigh).

I know the movie but have not watched it............because it's Tom Cruise/Hollywood.
Go Saints!!!

[bergholt]

without buying into this argument , i find the word "skip" when used to discribe anglo australians highly offensive.....simply because the user intends it to be..........

Yep, it's really just about intention. I work with a guy who makes the word "mate" into an unbearable insult just using his tone of voice.

[borderbarry]

The day that white Australians start getting locked up or given poisoned food by the government simply because they are white, then we can start complaining about racism against whites.

[saint3d]

I guess the point we've all been trying to make is that rather than looking at this as discrimination against whites, perhaps look at this as promoting our talented indigenous footballers in an exhibition series that means very little to the general public.

So you're happy to see people treated differently based on their skin colour. Even if it's happy feel-good racism, it's still racism.

A lot of people are making the claim that the series doesn't really mean anything, so it's not a big deal. By inference I take that to mean it would be a big deal if it meant something.

The easiest example is: if the players were paid a million dollars a match to participate, would it be prejudiced to exclude light-skinned players? If for whatever reason it was the highest honour for a player to represent his country, would it matter then?

The thing that grinds my gears is that people think the appropriate response to a history of separation based on superficial qualities, is to perpetuate that separation from a different angle.

Hypothetical:

Player wins Brownlow and is named captain of the All Australian team.

Player is of perfect size and shape to play International Rules.

Player has had a life-long dream to represent Australia in a sport. Any sport.

Player to AFL: What is it about me that means I can't play in the International Rules series?

AFL: This year we're promoting our indigenous stars, so the team will be comprised entirely of indigenous players.

Player: You haven't answered my question. What is it about me that means I can't play?

AFL: ?

[dragit]

The day that white Australians start getting locked up or given poisoned food by the government simply because they are white, then we can start complaining about racism against whites.

Exactly baz... A lot of slow learners...

It's a novelty exhibition match, we're sending an all star indigenous side this year, I doubt any white bread players will be complaining, just a few simple fans.

[plugger66]

I guess the point we've all been trying to make is that rather than looking at this as discrimination against whites, perhaps look at this as promoting our talented indigenous footballers in an exhibition series that means very little to the general public.

So you're happy to see people treated differently based on their skin colour. Even if it's happy feel-good racism, it's still racism.

A lot of people are making the claim that the series doesn't really mean anything, so it's not a big deal. By inference I take that to mean it would be a big deal if it meant something.

The easiest example is: if the players were paid a million dollars a match to participate, would it be prejudiced to exclude light-skinned players? If for whatever reason it was the highest honour for a player to represent his country, would it matter then?

The thing that grinds my gears is that people think the appropriate response to a history of separation based on superficial qualities, is to perpetuate that separation from a different angle.

Hypothetical:

Player wins Brownlow and is named captain of the All Australian team.

Player is of perfect size and shape to play International Rules.

Player has had a life-long dream to represent Australia in a sport. Any sport.

Player to AFL: What is it about me that means I can't play in the International Rules series?

AFL: This year we're promoting our indigenous stars, so the team will be comprised entirely of indigenous players.

Player: You haven't answered my question. What is it about me that means I can't play?

AFL: ?

So you obviously oppose the All stars game in pre season. get it into your head that it is a one off series that has completely lost interest to people so they are trying something different. It isnt racism at all. You really need to learn about racisim because you have it completely wrong. What about the greek team of the century. thats unfair because Tony Lockett couldnt get in the team. Thats racist.

[kp83]

I guess the point we've all been trying to make is that rather than looking at this as discrimination against whites, perhaps look at this as promoting our talented indigenous footballers in an exhibition series that means very little to the general public.

So you're happy to see people treated differently based on their skin colour. Even if it's happy feel-good racism, it's still racism.

A lot of people are making the claim that the series doesn't really mean anything, so it's not a big deal. By inference I take that to mean it would be a big deal if it meant something.

The easiest example is: if the players were paid a million dollars a match to participate, would it be prejudiced to exclude light-skinned players? If for whatever reason it was the highest honour for a player to represent his country, would it matter then?

The thing that grinds my gears is that people think the appropriate response to a history of separation based on superficial qualities, is to perpetuate that separation from a different angle.

Hypothetical:

Player wins Brownlow and is named captain of the All Australian team.

Player is of perfect size and shape to play International Rules.

Player has had a life-long dream to represent Australia in a sport. Any sport.

Player to AFL: What is it about me that means I can't play in the International Rules series?

AFL: This year we're promoting our indigenous stars, so the team will be comprised entirely of indigenous players.

Player: You haven't answered my question. What is it about me that means I can't play?

AFL: ?

Wow...either you haven't read through this thread properly or you are a fool. Either way, I'm done...no point in putting my opinions up again.
Glad to see others aren't quite as simplistic as you and have the ability to see the broader picture.

[Sainternist]

International Rules is utter landfill. Bring back State of Origin footy!