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Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
Richmond have been an administrational mess for decades now.plugger66 wrote:maverick wrote:it simply doesn't take 8 years, that's why he is wrong.plugger66 wrote:
So that means he is wrong? Tell us how he is wrong.
Tell Richmond that. Or melbourne. Or us about 10 years ago. Or the Hawks previously. it can take up to 8 years. it can be shorter. we havent reached the bottom yet so god knows how long it will take.
maverick wrote:Richmond have been an administrational mess for decades now.plugger66 wrote:maverick wrote:
it simply doesn't take 8 years, that's why he is wrong.
Tell Richmond that. Or melbourne. Or us about 10 years ago. Or the Hawks previously. it can take up to 8 years. it can be shorter. we havent reached the bottom yet so god knows how long it will take.
Melbourne made the finals in 2007, and have made blunders since, has only been 6 years.
If Roos was coach next year they probably would make the finals.
Hawthorn have never been out of the finals for 8 years in my lifetime.
We haven't been out of the finals for 8 years since 1991 either for that matter.
4-5 years max a re-build should take.
He is wrong, 3 years of pain, 2 years of hope, and then finals and beyond.
That's a successful rebuild.
This is our second year in.
See pluggers posts.maverick wrote:Why do we think we are enetering 1998-2002?saintspremiers wrote:Of course we are entering a 1998-2002 period. That is obvious.thejiggingsaint wrote:I agree with you Tony. I'm thinking that WAAAAY too many of us are too willing to buy into us entering another 1998-2002 period. What is required at the present moment is not a "sack the coach" "spill the board" call from the members, but rather, cool heads and strong nerve as we go through a rebuild. There are SOOOOO many 'experts" who are ranting and raving about Lyon's recruiting/drafting now, who were conspicuous by their absence while Lyon was being successful on the field.
I would have thought we are at least half way through the period.
So we are close to agreeing then?plugger66 wrote:maverick wrote:Richmond have been an administrational mess for decades now.plugger66 wrote:
Tell Richmond that. Or melbourne. Or us about 10 years ago. Or the Hawks previously. it can take up to 8 years. it can be shorter. we havent reached the bottom yet so god knows how long it will take.
Melbourne made the finals in 2007, and have made blunders since, has only been 6 years.
If Roos was coach next year they probably would make the finals.
Hawthorn have never been out of the finals for 8 years in my lifetime.
We haven't been out of the finals for 8 years since 1991 either for that matter.
4-5 years max a re-build should take.
He is wrong, 3 years of pain, 2 years of hope, and then finals and beyond.
That's a successful rebuild.
This is our second year in.
We have a 5 year whole in recruiting. That doesnt magically disappear. People need to factor that in when comparing us to other rebuilds. You have given me some stats to show it wont happen. Now i would love to hear the players we have at the moment to make it not happen. hope you are right by the way. I see it taking between 6 and 8 years from 2011.
Agree jiggs. And don't forget:thejiggingsaint wrote:Good GOD! You doubt the club will survive? UNBELIEVABLE! Sorry mate, but that is fair-dinkum UNBELIEVABLY pessimistic!
Seriously?spert wrote:We haven't got eight years to wait, and we haven't got the resources to exist in the wilderness- if we keep falling behind, I doubt if the club will survive. We really have nothing to build on and as a far as I'm concerned- we practically start from scratch at the end of this season. We will need to do an element of quick fixes unfortunately or we'll be gone.
plugger66 wrote:
Tell Richmond that. Or melbourne. Or us about 10 years ago. Or the Hawks previously. it can take up to 8 years. it can be shorter. we havent reached the bottom yet so god knows how long it will take.
Exactly.Buckets wrote:plugger66 wrote:
Tell Richmond that. Or melbourne. Or us about 10 years ago. Or the Hawks previously. it can take up to 8 years. it can be shorter. we havent reached the bottom yet so god knows how long it will take.
Hawthorn Finals 2001
2002 - Miss with 11 Wins
2003 - Miss with 12 wins
2004 - 4 Wins
2005 - 5 wins
2006 - 9 wins
2007 - 14 wins
2008 - Flag
One would suggest that had they gone the rebuild earlier then it would have been a shorter stint out of the finals. Once they bottomed out 2004 it took them 4 years to get a flag....
Richmond's recruiting under Wallace was hopeless, would be better to look at Richmond since Dimma took over.
Melbourne deliberately went out to get draft picks. The culture of losing became apart of the team unfortunately. However you look at the talent they do have and they if molded properly will be very dangerous. They actually dont have a bad backline or forwardline, its the midfield that they lack in drastically.
Buckets wrote:plugger66 wrote:
Tell Richmond that. Or melbourne. Or us about 10 years ago. Or the Hawks previously. it can take up to 8 years. it can be shorter. we havent reached the bottom yet so god knows how long it will take.
Hawthorn Finals 2001
2002 - Miss with 11 Wins
2003 - Miss with 12 wins
2004 - 4 Wins
2005 - 5 wins
2006 - 9 wins
2007 - 14 wins
2008 - Flag
One would suggest that had they gone the rebuild earlier then it would have been a shorter stint out of the finals. Once they bottomed out 2004 it took them 4 years to get a flag....
Richmond's recruiting under Wallace was hopeless, would be better to look at Richmond since Dimma took over.
Melbourne deliberately went out to get draft picks. The culture of losing became apart of the team unfortunately. However you look at the talent they do have and they if molded properly will be very dangerous. They actually dont have a bad backline or forwardline, its the midfield that they lack in drastically.
I'm a long term Sainter, seen the club almost go to the wall in the bad days..Yes I'm serious. I would suggest that if we don't at least hit the bottom of the eight by 2015, then in this current environment, the AFL will be putting pressure on lesser resourced clubs to merge and/or move.maverick wrote:Seriously?spert wrote:We haven't got eight years to wait, and we haven't got the resources to exist in the wilderness- if we keep falling behind, I doubt if the club will survive. We really have nothing to build on and as a far as I'm concerned- we practically start from scratch at the end of this season. We will need to do an element of quick fixes unfortunately or we'll be gone.
In terms of on the park we are around 1999 (finished 10th) to 2000 (finished last).maverick wrote:Why do we think we are enetering 1998-2002?saintspremiers wrote:Of course we are entering a 1998-2002 period. That is obvious.thejiggingsaint wrote:I agree with you Tony. I'm thinking that WAAAAY too many of us are too willing to buy into us entering another 1998-2002 period. What is required at the present moment is not a "sack the coach" "spill the board" call from the members, but rather, cool heads and strong nerve as we go through a rebuild. There are SOOOOO many 'experts" who are ranting and raving about Lyon's recruiting/drafting now, who were conspicuous by their absence while Lyon was being successful on the field.
I would have thought we are at least half way through the period.
Ha ha so truemarkp wrote:It's just Terry trying to find a way to take credit for where the tigers finally seem to be at.
He coincidentally started as coach there 8 years ago.
They really should be thanking him.
gringo wrote:I think maverick is pretty on the money. Why does anyone need to prove anything to you Plugger for simply giving an opinion. Why don't you justify the crap you post. It's an opinion too not a scientific formula.
I think Paul Roos would be the next Blighty by the way- couldn't give a s*** about footy anymore and would only do it for the money. Out of touch now and a game plan that was revolutionary in the early 2000s. Would be a disaster, I think Rocket Eade is probably the best of the current ex seniors and then Choco.
IMO the difference is that under Blight we sacked so many good players and then followed up under Watson sacking the rest of our middle core. We did the full list cull and rebuild from zero. I don't think we will go beyond transitional rebuild under Watters.
We are artificially down on what we probably should have been with a full list to choose from. We really have only had Roberton play every game in defence and the only of our older senior players to play every game are Roo and Dal who is down on his usual output. Not as gloomy as it all sounds. We would have been a lot more motivated had a few of our close loses gone the other way.
plugger66 wrote:gringo wrote:I think maverick is pretty on the money. Why does anyone need to prove anything to you Plugger for simply giving an opinion. Why don't you justify the crap you post. It's an opinion too not a scientific formula.
I think Paul Roos would be the next Blighty by the way- couldn't give a s*** about footy anymore and would only do it for the money. Out of touch now and a game plan that was revolutionary in the early 2000s. Would be a disaster, I think Rocket Eade is probably the best of the current ex seniors and then Choco.
IMO the difference is that under Blight we sacked so many good players and then followed up under Watson sacking the rest of our middle core. We did the full list cull and rebuild from zero. I don't think we will go beyond transitional rebuild under Watters.
We are artificially down on what we probably should have been with a full list to choose from. We really have only had Roberton play every game in defence and the only of our older senior players to play every game are Roo and Dal who is down on his usual output. Not as gloomy as it all sounds. We would have been a lot more motivated had a few of our close loses gone the other way.
You really are brain dead which is fine for us but it must worry your family. I respect Maverick's opinion because he actually thinks before he posts. Something you could learn from. And i gave plenty of reasons why i think as I do. maybe they went over your head. How about you tell us something for a change instead of just saying this player will be good and Roos will only do it for the money. Why occasionally would be nice. I bet you were a person who had us top 6 this year because you follow the saints. great to be positive but occasionally you actually need to see what is really happening. Now run away. you really are a bit simple.