I took banned drug: Watson
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
- matrix
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 21475
- Joined: Mon 21 May 2007 1:55pm
- Has thanked: 4 times
- Been thanked: 4 times
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
not really Mr Magic
few links
basically the same stuff, opinion pieces really
con and pluggsy debating
and 95% of us saying they should be dealt with harshly (bombers not plugger and con)
few links
basically the same stuff, opinion pieces really
con and pluggsy debating
and 95% of us saying they should be dealt with harshly (bombers not plugger and con)
- Mr Magic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12792
- Joined: Fri 04 May 2007 9:38am
- Has thanked: 802 times
- Been thanked: 428 times
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
Why was Essendon using AOD9604?
For the players to lose weight????
Everything their Sports Science Dept was suggesting/doing was for one purpose alone.
TO improve an aspect of performance.
They weren't just trying to 'catch up' to the competition.
They were trying to 'get in front' of the competition and went to people who could deliver that result.
The minute those in charge (whomever it was) agreed to employ Dank they chose to go down the path they did.
Everything they did since that point in time strongly suggests (I cannot say prove yet) they were prepared to go further than any other club has previously.
They wanted to be #1 and deliberately chose to take on a program of chemical enhancing to achieve their goal.
I don't feel any sympathy for Jobe Watson or any other Essendon player.
I don't for one second believe that not one of them questioned the whole 'chemical program' that was being proposed and they all willingly partook in it. Now that they've been caught they're all 'misled poor athletes'.
IMHO James Hird and Bomber Thompson's fingerprints are all over this and the sooner the sycophants (footy media) wake up to this 'butter wouldn't melt in my mouth' routine, the sooner the delusional Essendon fans will understand they are supporting a club of systematic cheats. (Even the delusional Melbourne fans recognized their team had tanked.)
For the players to lose weight????
Everything their Sports Science Dept was suggesting/doing was for one purpose alone.
TO improve an aspect of performance.
They weren't just trying to 'catch up' to the competition.
They were trying to 'get in front' of the competition and went to people who could deliver that result.
The minute those in charge (whomever it was) agreed to employ Dank they chose to go down the path they did.
Everything they did since that point in time strongly suggests (I cannot say prove yet) they were prepared to go further than any other club has previously.
They wanted to be #1 and deliberately chose to take on a program of chemical enhancing to achieve their goal.
I don't feel any sympathy for Jobe Watson or any other Essendon player.
I don't for one second believe that not one of them questioned the whole 'chemical program' that was being proposed and they all willingly partook in it. Now that they've been caught they're all 'misled poor athletes'.
IMHO James Hird and Bomber Thompson's fingerprints are all over this and the sooner the sycophants (footy media) wake up to this 'butter wouldn't melt in my mouth' routine, the sooner the delusional Essendon fans will understand they are supporting a club of systematic cheats. (Even the delusional Melbourne fans recognized their team had tanked.)
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 19096
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1603 times
- Been thanked: 2018 times
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
Heard today from someone who works in the media that the word is that Bombers will get fined $5 miilion with no suspensions. Bombers has very strong evidence that they got permission from ASADA that Aod-9604 was ok to use. Not sure if it's true or not and I don't think it makes any sense.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 702
- Joined: Tue 07 Sep 2004 8:32pm
- Location: Sandringham, Victoria
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 21 times
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
If they had permission to take it why would they be fined.SaintPav wrote:Heard today from someone who works in the media that the word is that Bombers will get fined $5 miilion with no suspensions. Bombers has very strong evidence that they got permission from ASADA that Aod-9604 was ok to use. Not sure if it's true or not and I don't think it makes any sense.
Bit implausible.
Though you can be fined $500k for not tanking so anything is possible'
Also -the first reporter to have this knowledge would put it straight out there.
They are all so desperate to break the scoop.
- Life Long Saint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5533
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 12:54pm
- Has thanked: 62 times
- Been thanked: 483 times
- Contact:
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
Still don't see how the players can escape a penalty. WADA language is quite specific in who is responsible for what goes into an athlete's body. The fact that no Essendon player bothered to check is very poor.
Wouldn't be an acceptable excuse anywhere else.
Wouldn't be an acceptable excuse anywhere else.
- Eastern
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14357
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 1:46pm
- Location: 3132
- Been thanked: 1 time
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
Lets look at the process once charges are laid;
An AFL Tribunal will determine Innocence or Guilt
The AFL will guide the Tribunal on any sanctions they are to hand down
ASADA and WADA will need to approve the sanctions handed down, otherwise they can appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. On this, they can appeal either way
The AFL Commission can lay extra charges (Disrepute, Governance etc) ON TOP of any original charges. They can also set whatever sanction they like
I don't think their is any further options AFTER the Court of Arbitration for Sport, however any extra sanctions can be taken to Court
Still a LOT to be played out on this !!
An AFL Tribunal will determine Innocence or Guilt
The AFL will guide the Tribunal on any sanctions they are to hand down
ASADA and WADA will need to approve the sanctions handed down, otherwise they can appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. On this, they can appeal either way
The AFL Commission can lay extra charges (Disrepute, Governance etc) ON TOP of any original charges. They can also set whatever sanction they like
I don't think their is any further options AFTER the Court of Arbitration for Sport, however any extra sanctions can be taken to Court
Still a LOT to be played out on this !!
NEW scarf signature (hopefully with correct spelling) will be here as soon as it arrives !!
- Wayne42
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4911
- Joined: Mon 24 Jun 2013 10:27pm
- Has thanked: 619 times
- Been thanked: 558 times
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
It'll never end at this rate...Eastern wrote:Lets look at the process once charges are laid;
An AFL Tribunal will determine Innocence or Guilt
The AFL will guide the Tribunal on any sanctions they are to hand down
ASADA and WADA will need to approve the sanctions handed down, otherwise they can appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. On this, they can appeal either way
The AFL Commission can lay extra charges (Disrepute, Governance etc) ON TOP of any original charges. They can also set whatever sanction they like
I don't think their is any further options AFTER the Court of Arbitration for Sport, however any extra sanctions can be taken to Court
Still a LOT to be played out on this !!
The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
If the bombers weazle out of this then the blue print has been laid down .
Lets get the best sports scientists from Germany or the nfl in the USA and have the things in place - so that in the unlikely event of being caught - to create some plausible deniability .
In short lets make dank look like the rank amateur he is
Lets get the best sports scientists from Germany or the nfl in the USA and have the things in place - so that in the unlikely event of being caught - to create some plausible deniability .
In short lets make dank look like the rank amateur he is
- dragit
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13047
- Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2010 11:56am
- Has thanked: 605 times
- Been thanked: 315 times
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
I like it, the "Rank... Tank n' dank"Con Gorozidis wrote:If the bombers weazle out of this then the blue print has been laid down .
Lets get the best sports scientists from Germany or the nfl in the USA and have the things in place - so that in the unlikely event of being caught - to create some plausible deniability .
In short lets make dank look like the rank amateur he is
Someone get some T-shirts made up.
- Waltzing St Kilda
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2170
- Joined: Sun 14 Mar 2010 5:20am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 361 times
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
For years the AFL couldn't even enforce their own clash strip policy on the Bombers. We had a farcical situation where St Kilda was wearing its clash strip against Essendon at home games.
What chance then that the AFL has the balls to punish the Bombers in any meaningful way? They'll probably be so frazzled by their own inadequacy that they'll take out their frustration on some other team instead.
What chance then that the AFL has the balls to punish the Bombers in any meaningful way? They'll probably be so frazzled by their own inadequacy that they'll take out their frustration on some other team instead.
- Eastern
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14357
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 1:46pm
- Location: 3132
- Been thanked: 1 time
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
Thankfully, any punishment/charges (if found guilty) MUST meet the approval of ASADA/WADA !!Waltzing St Kilda wrote:For years the AFL couldn't even enforce their own clash strip policy on the Bombers. We had a farcical situation where St Kilda was wearing its clash strip against Essendon at home games.
What chance then that the AFL has the balls to punish the Bombers in any meaningful way? They'll probably be so frazzled by their own inadequacy that they'll take out their frustration on some other team instead.
NEW scarf signature (hopefully with correct spelling) will be here as soon as it arrives !!
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
matrix wrote:
and 95% of us saying they should be dealt with harshly (bombers not plugger and con)
whoa there...need to think about the plugga one a bit more...don't be too hasty....
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
- bobmurray
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7910
- Joined: Mon 03 Oct 2005 11:08pm
- Location: In the stand at RSEA Park.
- Has thanked: 538 times
- Been thanked: 244 times
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
Thompson is keeping a very low profile throughout this saga...is he to blame for the whole program, or was it Hird ?"
Will we pick up a player in the SSP window
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12421
- Joined: Tue 24 Mar 2009 11:05pm
- Location: St Kilda
- Has thanked: 296 times
- Been thanked: 55 times
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
Con Gorozidis wrote:If the bombers weazle out of this then the blue print has been laid down .
Lets get the best sports scientists from Germany or the nfl in the USA and have the things in place - so that in the unlikely event of being caught - to create some plausible deniability .
In short lets make dank look like the rank amateur he is
I'm all for it get them so many freakin drugs they look like pin headed bearded circus ladies or the east german women's swimming team anyway. I want Rhys Stanley's guns so big his knuckles drag and Newnes getting round looking like he has futons gaffered to his biceps.
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
They still haven't interviewed him.bobmurray wrote:Thompson is keeping a very low profile throughout this saga...is he to blame for the whole program, or was it Hird ?"
I wonder if he is being difficult as much as Dank is when it comes to questioning.
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
If he ever took his head out of a massive bag of coke maybe he'd be able to answer some questions..SainterK wrote:They still haven't interviewed him.bobmurray wrote:Thompson is keeping a very low profile throughout this saga...is he to blame for the whole program, or was it Hird ?"
I wonder if he is being difficult as much as Dank is when it comes to questioning.
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
Ok so this is the bombers official case.
1. Doc Reid saw a letter from dank
2. Even if this letter is a fraud we genuinely believed it was legit at the time .
For a strict liability regime . My personal opinion is they are toast .
I also believe that reliance on a geriatric old dr like doc Reid who wouldn't no jack about this kind of thing is naive and unreasonable. The afl is partly responsible for this because their education places a lot of responsibility on the club dr . This was probably ok in the 80s but with 20 or 30 medical staff at a club and a part time dr this is no longer adequate.
So essendon have been misled by the afl in some ways . But that is not wada or asadas problem.
Bombers need to go down.
1. Doc Reid saw a letter from dank
2. Even if this letter is a fraud we genuinely believed it was legit at the time .
For a strict liability regime . My personal opinion is they are toast .
I also believe that reliance on a geriatric old dr like doc Reid who wouldn't no jack about this kind of thing is naive and unreasonable. The afl is partly responsible for this because their education places a lot of responsibility on the club dr . This was probably ok in the 80s but with 20 or 30 medical staff at a club and a part time dr this is no longer adequate.
So essendon have been misled by the afl in some ways . But that is not wada or asadas problem.
Bombers need to go down.
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
Ok
So as we all suspect Dank is a snake oil salesman .
But Hirdy and Evans were lapping it up.
These two guys have been exposed as the morons they truly are .
They are so thick they remain confident and oblivious to just how thick they are .
http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bom ... 2p48d.html
So as we all suspect Dank is a snake oil salesman .
But Hirdy and Evans were lapping it up.
These two guys have been exposed as the morons they truly are .
They are so thick they remain confident and oblivious to just how thick they are .
http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bom ... 2p48d.html
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5062
- Joined: Sun 27 Feb 2005 2:30am
- Has thanked: 15 times
- Been thanked: 125 times
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
Welcome back to the fray, Nick McKenzie and Richard Baker. I wondered what they were working on. Although they mention investments weren't made by the likes of Hird and Evans in any company involved in AOD 9064, Evans and Hird were given a presentation by Calzada. From memory that presentation was before the program began at Essendon. Given Evans had hired Hird to work at Goldman Sachs JB Were, before he hired him to coach, one always wondered if ASADA would send the sniffer dogs down that particular burrow.Con Gorozidis wrote:Ok
So as we all suspect Dank is a snake oil salesman .
But Hirdy and Evans were lapping it up.
These two guys have been exposed as the morons they truly are .
They are so thick they remain confident and oblivious to just how thick they are .
http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bom ... 2p48d.html
I still can't see how this might absolve the players. I would think participation in a program with an added financial enhancement benefit to promoters and others would befit the "strict liability" reasoning even more. I don't recall East German or Chinese swimmers getting a pass because their overseers got an earn out of what the athletes were given.
The "euphoria" angle is also interesting. Maybe they should have tried medical marijuana?
You're right, Con. Evans and Hird always looked dills, more so when the Calzada presentation came out. What, they just happened not to mention is wasn't approved for human use, yet, or didn't Evans or Hird ask, being the top notch biotech analysts they were? Obviously Calzada chose Evans and Hird to present to because of their lack of conflict.
The dots aren't all that hard to join. 1) Evans and Hird receive Calzada presentation and Calzada control AOD 9064 2) Essendon design consent forms for some players to take AOD 9064.
"Strict liability" didn't go away. Like I said, welcome back Richard and Nick.
'I have no new illusions, and I have no old illusions' - Vladimir Putin, Geneva, June 2021
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5109
- Joined: Wed 04 Aug 2004 3:18pm
- Has thanked: 12 times
- Been thanked: 30 times
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
That is a really interesting read. I am surprised there isnt more going on in the news about these latest revelations.
Essendon as a club are in for a huge penalty, I'm starting to think.
Surely the coaches must be sanctioned, especially hird, as he attended a presentation on the drug for god sake, so he knew they were taking it.
I think players may get the lightest penalty available as they are starting to look like the victims, however, the strict liability enforced by WADA will ensure they dont get away without being sanctioned. Which players and how many, who knows. Jobe would have to be one of them though.
Essendon as a club are in for a huge penalty, I'm starting to think.
Surely the coaches must be sanctioned, especially hird, as he attended a presentation on the drug for god sake, so he knew they were taking it.
I think players may get the lightest penalty available as they are starting to look like the victims, however, the strict liability enforced by WADA will ensure they dont get away without being sanctioned. Which players and how many, who knows. Jobe would have to be one of them though.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 25303
- Joined: Tue 01 Feb 2005 4:25pm
- Location: Trump Tower
- Has thanked: 142 times
- Been thanked: 284 times
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
Indeed. It's all about limiting the player suspensions now.mullet wrote:That is a really interesting read. I am surprised there isnt more going on in the news about these latest revelations.
Essendon as a club are in for a huge penalty, I'm starting to think.
Surely the coaches must be sanctioned, especially hird, as he attended a presentation on the drug for god sake, so he knew they were taking it.
I think players may get the lightest penalty available as they are starting to look like the victims, however, the strict liability enforced by WADA will ensure they dont get away without being sanctioned. Which players and how many, who knows. Jobe would have to be one of them though.
Demetriou would be shitting himself about this. If he can't convince WADA to go light on the players it's a very bad look for the AFL.
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
- Eastern
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14357
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 1:46pm
- Location: 3132
- Been thanked: 1 time
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
That would be what mesers Hird, Evans, Thompson & Watson would be hoping !!Wayne42 wrote:It'll never end at this rate...Eastern wrote:Lets look at the process once charges are laid;
An AFL Tribunal will determine Innocence or Guilt
The AFL will guide the Tribunal on any sanctions they are to hand down
ASADA and WADA will need to approve the sanctions handed down, otherwise they can appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. On this, they can appeal either way
The AFL Commission can lay extra charges (Disrepute, Governance etc) ON TOP of any original charges. They can also set whatever sanction they like
I don't think their is any further options AFTER the Court of Arbitration for Sport, however any extra sanctions can be taken to Court
Still a LOT to be played out on this !!
NEW scarf signature (hopefully with correct spelling) will be here as soon as it arrives !!
- Eastern
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14357
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 1:46pm
- Location: 3132
- Been thanked: 1 time
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
Should this whole sorry saga be viewed this way?
ESSENDON DIDN'T CHEAT. THEY PROVIDED THE TOOLS, PROCESSES & FACILITIES FOR THEIR PLAYERS TO CHEAT !!
ESSENDON DIDN'T CHEAT. THEY PROVIDED THE TOOLS, PROCESSES & FACILITIES FOR THEIR PLAYERS TO CHEAT !!
NEW scarf signature (hopefully with correct spelling) will be here as soon as it arrives !!
- Eastern
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14357
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 1:46pm
- Location: 3132
- Been thanked: 1 time
Re: I took banned drug: Watson
Deleted !!
NEW scarf signature (hopefully with correct spelling) will be here as soon as it arrives !!