Rate Roo

[older saint]

Coming in to his 250th good time to assess exactly where Roo stands in the all time great players at this club.
5 Time B& F winner
2 time leading Goal kicker
4 time All Australian ( inc 2009 captain)
NAB Rising Star
AFLPA MVP 2004

In my time watching and remembering players he is now in the top 3
Lockett, Harvey Reiwoldt

Pre my time you add Stewart , Baldock, Mohr

For me he sits 3rd in modern players and perhaps 5th all time.

[BigMart]

3rd, maybe 4th all time

250 games is already twice as many as Badock, many more than Stewart and Lockett..

His record through in a strong team as its best player over a decade is remarkable......

I'd say
Harvey
Lockett
Stewart
Riewoldt

[rexy]

Definitely in best 3 I've seen with Locket Harvey !
What about CHFs all time, I've got him above Brown Brereton easily and on a par with Carey!

[bigcarl]

Lockett then Stewart then Harvey, Riewoldt and Baldock all on the same tier.

[skeptic]

best of all time for mine

Works harder than Lockett and had to constantly develop and redevelop his game
More gifted than Harvey

Take nothing away from those 2 players don't get me wrong but Roo is a freak

[bigcarl]

best of all time for mine

Works harder than Lockett and had to constantly develop and redevelop his game
More gifted than Harvey

His kicking renders him ineffective as a forward ... when compared with Lockett. No shame in that.

I'd say he's different to Harvey in his key attributes, but not more gifted.

Let's just say he's in the top 5.

[skeptic]

His kicking renders him ineffective as a forward ... when compared with Lockett. No shame in that.

I'd say he's different to Harvey in his key attributes, but not more gifted.

Let's just say he's in the top 5.

I'll pay that RE Lockett. Looking at Roo now, I just wonder what Lockett could have been for us if he had Roo's mindset and attitude

With Harvey I'm having difficulty articulating what I mean... thought about it for a few minutes and remain stumped. I think father time has just removed some memories RE how good banger really was so withdrawn.

Roo is still my fav thogh

[merimbula]

Having watched them play:

Ian Stewart was truly unbelievable;
Tony Lockett was truly unbelievable;
Darrel Baldock, Robert Harvey & Nick Riewoldt are unbelievable;

football champions!

[Cairnsman]

Comparing Roo with Lockett is a little easier than comparing Roo with Harvey in terms of positions played.

Whilst Roos kicking wasn't as sharp as Locketts Roo has other attributes that beat Lockett on and off the field. Being part of a winning premiership alters peoples perception about a player when having these types of discussion and Roo possibly would be rated by most as the all time great hands down if he had one of those little medallion things, and although he doesn't, coming closer to that elusive prize more than Lockett ever did surely must elevate his value to the team AND CLUB over a longer period over Lockett. His leadership and professionalism kills Locketts as well as his fitness and ability to work both ways. Lockett was lightening fast over 10m and could only lead out and probably wouldn't be suited to the modern game.

To be an all time great of a club I reckon you have to be a one club player so here my opion:


Baldock, Harvey and Roo Equal pegging for first

Burkey and Lowe Equal second and all of the obvious 66 premiership players

[PADDLEPOP1001]

Lockett wouldn't be suited to the modern game seriously ,he could play in any era and adjust accordingly!

[plugger66]

Well Lockett clearly number one. Then it is Roo, Harvey and Hayes. Didnt see the Doc or Stewart really so would be making that up.

[perfectionist]

Nick is the best contested marking forward I have seen. He is the best tall gut runner the game has seen. He is skilled on both sides, always gives 100% effort and is fiercely team oriented. He would be a coach's dream player. Tony Lockett, Peter Hudson and John Coleman appear to be the only forwards who were able to master the "big sticks" nerves. All three were able to have their heads directly over the ball at the moment of contact. That is not an easy physical manoeuvre for a tall player, but it means the ball generally goes straight. Nick's accuracy is about the same as the other top forwards over the years. Had he had the accuracy of Tony Lockett he would have the perfect player. It has been a delight to watch him play our great game - for the Mighty Saints - over the last 12 years. In every contest, he has made the ball the object. He has shone a light on sportsmanship that many had thought had dimmed. He is one of the greatest Saints.

[bergholt]

Lockett wouldn't be suited to the modern game seriously ,he could play in any era and adjust accordingly!

I dunno. His man would run off him a lot so he'd be asked to push a long way up the field when the opposition have the ball. I'm not sure aerobic fitness was ever one of his strengths, so he might be too buggered to lead or kick by the time he got back inside 50.

[Cairnsman]

Lockett wouldn't be suited to the modern game seriously ,he could play in any era and adjust accordingly!

I dunno. His man would run off him a lot so he'd be asked to push a long way up the field when the opposition have the ball. I'm not sure aerobic fitness was ever one of his strengths, so he might be too buggered to lead or kick by the time he got back inside 50.

Yep weight control and fitness was an issue for locket from what I remember and I think he was also an asthmatic. Seem to remember the trainers having to bring out his blue puffer during a game.

[8856brother]

Nick is the best contested marking forward I have seen. He is the best tall gut runner the game has seen. He is skilled on both sides, always gives 100% effort and is fiercely team oriented. He would be a coach's dream player. Tony Lockett, Peter Hudson and John Coleman appear to be the only forwards who were able to master the "big sticks" nerves. All three were able to have their heads directly over the ball at the moment of contact. That is not an easy physical manoeuvre for a tall player, but it means the ball generally goes straight. Nick's accuracy is about the same as the other top forwards over the years. Had he had the accuracy of Tony Lockett he would have the perfect player. It has been a delight to watch him play our great game - for the Mighty Saints - over the last 12 years. In every contest, he has made the ball the object. He has shone a light on sportsmanship that many had thought had dimmed. He is one of the greatest Saints.

I agree with everything you have said except for your first comment. Contested marking is not his greatest strength. Pretty sure he has stated that. This is why he runs so bloody hard to lose his opponant, harder than anyone who has ever played AFL. This is why he is so good. Loewe and Lockett were both far better contested marks. In saying that I only rate Plugger as a better Saints player in my time than Roo. An absolute champion of our club and the game.

[stinger]

Having watched them play:

Ian Stewart was truly unbelievable;
Tony Lockett was truly unbelievable;
Darrel Baldock, Robert Harvey & Nick Riewoldt are unbelievable;

football champions!

+1..i've been truly blessed to have watched all 5 play........

[BigMart]

Tony didn't take 8 marks a game, get 16 possessions a game, play 250 games or have half the goal assists?

Tony was no doubt a better FF

Who was the better CHF?

Wayne Carey was a better player than Tony, and was not as accurate, nor was Ablett.

So to say Tony's kicking made him a better fwd is odd. CHF is considered the most important position on the ground, and Plugger never played there?!

To say Roo is ineffective as a fwd because of his kicking whilst winning 6 best and fairests (pencilled in) and kicking 550 goals is bizarre???

Also not to rate Robert Harvey as our greatest player is bizarre???
He didn't get his accolades (head and shoulders above anyone and too much to list)
Not sure on what score he isn't
Consistency at length at absolute elite level?? 1991-2005 (8 AA)
Best individual season 97/98
Best individual game 45 possessions, 3 goals
Finals record
I find it hard to believe he is underrated...

Plugger was glorious at his best

Harvey was too and for twice as long

Riwoldt in mind is a combination of the two...

[BigMart]

Obvious mistakes in post, bloody phones..,

Accolades by accident.

[remboy]

I always thought the best Saints (in no order ) were Lockett, Harvey, Stewart and Baldock. Didn't see the last two play but on reputations and achievemnts they deserve to be there. Lockett influenced the outcome of more games singlehandedly than any other player I've ever seen, which makes him no1 in my book. Harvey pretty much invented gut running and forced opposition coaches to rotate players on him. Anyone who changes the way the game is played desrves to be there.
I think the term champion is used way too loosely. A guy at work calls Brad Johnson a champion. Maybe at the Bulldogs but not of the AFL. In my mind to be truly called a champion a player must be in the elite of the competition and maintain that level for the majority of their career. In looking over the stats and achievements people have already mentioned in this thread it's nearly impossib le not to put Roo in that category.
It' also silly to compare him to Carey or Brereton or Lockett. Those guys were power athletes. Roo is a CHF with the athletic ability of a midfielder. We will be waiting a long time to see another player of his type again.
I remember Daley Thompson saying that if he was able to train Roo at his peak for 4 years, he'd get him into an Olympic 400 metre final. This guy is truly unique.
While we're on the subject of rating players, Stewiw Loewe was the best contested maek I've seen. Always up against two or more. I lost count of the number of times he'd take marks two or three deep in a pack.

[Mr Magic]

Having seen all 5 play in their prime I would rate them in the following order as 'best' (not greatest)

Baldock (the best I've ever seen)
Lockett (people came to the footy just to watch him)
Harvey (the greatest gut runner the game has ever seen)
Roo (revolutionized the way CHF is played)
Stewart (sublime skills and courage)

As 'greatest Saints' I have had the pleasure of watching I would rate the top 5 as
Harvey
Barker
Roo
Baldock
Burke

[spert]

How good would it be to have that lot running around with Roo for us today (including Stewart)

[bergholt]

Best individual season 97/98

No quibbles from me about most of your post except this bit. Lockett's 1991 was as good as Harvey's 97 and 98. 127 goals in 17 games - 7.5 goals a game. The highest goal average for a season in VFL/AFL history. Six bags of ten or more. If he'd played the first six games that year he would have kicked 150+ and won his second Brownlow, as it was he finished eighth. Won the Coleman by a street, Sumich finished 16 goals behind him but played eight more games.

Our side that year was OK - Harvs, Loewey and Winmar were both right up there, Morris, Timmy Pekin and Frankie Coghlan good in support. But really, Plugger dragged us into the finals single-handed with a superhuman season, one of the best of all time.

[8856brother]

Best individual season 97/98

No quibbles from me about most of your post except this bit. Lockett's 1991 was as good as Harvey's 97 and 98. 127 goals in 17 games - 7.5 goals a game. The highest goal average for a season in VFL/AFL history. Six bags of ten or more. If he'd played the first six games that year he would have kicked 150+ and won his second Brownlow, as it was he finished eighth. Won the Coleman by a street, Sumich finished 16 goals behind him but played eight more games.

Our side that year was OK - Harvs, Loewey and Winmar were both right up there, Morris, Timmy Pekin and Frankie Coghlan good in support. But really, Plugger dragged us into the finals single-handed with a superhuman season, one of the best of all time.

Lockett's first game that season was round 7 at Moorabbin against the Crows. He had 9 goals at half time. Would have been 10 except for the umpire to call play on as he had a shot after the 1/2 time siren that went through. Umpire judged he ran around the mark.

He tired after half time and only kicked another 3 to make it 12 for the game. I think sometimes people forget how rediculously good a player he was. All my non Saints mates would come with me to Moorabbin just to watch this beast play. Many others did too. Best footballer ever IMO.

[gringo]

So hard to rate players from different eras.
Harves was so adaptable- he saw an era that mids ran off each other and still played an elite brand in an era of run with players.

Lockett got me back into footy after the 1980s -he was just scarily dominant.

Riewoldt would have to be next in line just again has played the hardest position on the ground through different eras and just adapted to it. Played elite footy flat out.

[bigcarl]

Lockett influenced the outcome of more games singlehandedly than any other player I've ever seen

Yep. including the Careys and Ablett Seniors. who incidentally played in better teams.

From memory he kicked 10 or more 22 times.