Our Ruckwork

[Apples]

I am continually frustrated with the progress of our rucks and our centre clearance work is appalling by any standards. Big Ben McEvoy is admirable around the ground but seems to have no idea how to use his body or position himself at centre bounces and ball ups. Of what I've seem Tom Hickey is not much better.

What's nearly as bad is at boundary throw ins we usually get creamed by the opposition. I've noticed our ruckmen never attempt to take front position and mostly trail their opponents into the contest by 1-2 metres. The free Rhys Stanley gave to Cox last game is a good example, if my memory serves me correct he did the same thing in the round 1 Gold Coast game which also resulted in a gift goal.

Given this lack of progress, I thought I would have a closer look at who our ruck coach is. The Club lists it as Greg Doyle; I am assuming it is the same Greg Doyle who played 2 games for us in 1990 and a further 29 games with Melbourne from 1993-1996. In an unremarkable 31 games, Greg averaged 4 kicks, 3 marks and 4 hit outs per game and this was in an era of no sub with most players have in excess of 90% game time.

So I ask you, how can anybody who averaged 4 hit outs per game instruct people what to do, where to position yourself and how to do it if he hasn't been able to do it himself. At the very least you would lack credibility and thus authority.

I really think a priority at seasons end is to get somebody on board who has been there and done that, like a Simon Madden. More recent players we could approach include Brad Ottens, Spider Everitt, Clark Keating and Michael Gardiner. I even think GT had Sam Newman down periodically to give instruction.

While I'm at it, I'm not a big fan of Dean Laidley's work with the midfield, but that's another story, I think addressing the shortcomings of out rucks skill sets in the main priority and that can only happen if we get a quality ruck coach.

[Dis Believer]

We have ruckwork...

[The Fireman]

plugger won't like this thread

[Junction Oval]

Good post Apples. Not much to disagree with there - especially getting a more experienced/higher profile ruck coach.

We did of course lose Steven King to the Western Bulldogs, at the end of 2011. Ex geelong Captain, Premiership ruckman, played over 200 AFL games

[spert]

There's a few basic football rules that need to be put in place down at Seaford before we look at systems and processes etc. One of them is "play in front"..too many are hanging out the back of packs and contests looking for the easy ball, or just to spoil or tackle the ball winner. One of the reasons our free kicks against is so high. Hickey will develop into a good ruckman I reckon, but is raw and needs time. Macca is not good at tap work, but OK around the ground, and otherwise, Stanley has no idea how to use his body and height in contests and should be played as a forward. Don't get me going on the midfield work, it's hopeless.

[1433davids]

I think mcevoy will be a gun in the last three weeks he has come up against statistically the four best ruckmen in the comp Minson, Nic Nat, Cox, & Goldstein thats the same as a up and coming midfeilder having to play on ablett, swan, watson, & griffen 4 weeks in a row added to that the guy is only 24yo. Young for a ruckman lets give him a chance oh yeah buy the way I think at the moment in the afl statistically the next best ruckman behind those preveiously mentioned is BIG BOY MCEVOY how do ya like them apples oh football experts
regards dave

[aaron82]

Absolutely agree with apples on this one. Whilst McEvoy is still relatively young in comparison to the elite rucks of the comp, I can never see him having either the strength and certainly not the leap to compete with the premium ruckman of the competition. Well spotted up on Doyle too, staggering if that is true. It's no wonder opposition ruckman generally have 50+ hitouts to us on a weekend basis giving their midfield silver service to forwards. Would love to know the ruckman who have picked up brownlow votes particularly 3's over the past 3 years.

[gringo]

It's funny the loss of Lenny has really stopped us papering over our ruck cracks. He's stolen so many balls read from the opposition that he makes us look good.

[bigcarl]

I thought Ben battled admirably against two of the league's best ruckmen last week. They eventually got on top in the last quarter, as you would expect with only Stanley as back up. I thought he timed his jumping well as the centre bounce and actually won some tapouts against Nicnat.

McEvoy is the least of our problems. We simply need more good midfielders and I agree wholeheartedly with whoever it was that suggested in another thread that we can afford only one small forward ... Milne at this stage ... who cannot be played through the midfield.

TDL, I think, may be able to. Milera and Saad may have work to do.

[Teflon]

Once again the club simply fails to get the best people on board

[Enrico_Misso]

Rix
Make him ruck coach.
He Rocks

Rix Rox Rux

[Junior]

Doyle played AFL as a key forward more often than not, but was able to play VFl I think with Dandnong as a ruck man and was a very good user of his body. He also played a heap for Rye as a ruckman and was successful. You do not have to have been a gun AFL player to make a good coach.

Whilst the standard he was playing at was lower it does not change the fact that he was undersized and had to use his body.

McEvoy's problem is still inexperience in the ruck, he was played as a key forward for the Murray Bushrangers and Dawson Simpson was the first ruck.

I do not disagree with comments about his ruck work but the problem stems back to his under 18 days.

[Apples]

I take your point Junior, however Doyle only averaged half a goal a game if he was a key forward as you say and 4 hit outs a game.

It's true you don't have to be a great player to be a great coach, Alan Jeans and Tom Hafey are good examples there, but their jobs were more encompassing, they were game day tacticians, player motivators, player managers, confidents when player had personal issues.

Whereas a ruck coach is almost exclusively instructive, hence I stand by my original comments on Greg Doyle.

I look at the Dogs where Steven King has been the ruck coach for 2 years. I don't think there is any coincidence that Wil Minson is pretty much the most improved ruckman in the comp, Ben is better around the ground but when it comes to pure ruckwork Minson rips him a new one every time they play.

While we are at it, I really think we need to review our assistant coaches at seasons end as Adam Kingsley and Danny Sexton don't inspire confidence in my either.

[bergholt]

While we are at it, I really think we need to review our assistant coaches at seasons end as Adam Kingsley and Danny Sexton don't inspire confidence in my either.

If you're worried about playing records then Kingsley played 170 games, won a premiership and a best and fairest. Everyone seems to want Leigh Tudor but he only played 68 games and never won anything.

[SainterK]

Ask Gardi if he wants to come down and give Ben some coaching...

[Apples]

While we are at it, I really think we need to review our assistant coaches at seasons end as Adam Kingsley and Danny Sexton don't inspire confidence in my either.

If you're worried about playing records then Kingsley played 170 games, won a premiership and a best and fairest, Everyone seems to want Leigh Tudor but he only played 68 games and never won anything.

My comment relate more to coaching, looking at our forward line, tell me who has improved their game this year apart from Riewoldt who is just the consummate professional ; Saad has gone backwards as has Milera, Siposs hasn't come on. Saunders shows a lot of promise but needs good coaching if he is to reach his potential. With regard to Kingsley and Sexton, I didn't say we need to sack them, I just think we need to review their roles and the development progress of our younger players.

As per my original post, I don't think Greg Doyle is improving the work of our ruckman, we get routinely thrashed in that area, Big Ben is 24 next month and I haven't seen any improvement in his ruckwork over the last 2 years, he is a superb contested mark, competes at ground level but the bottom line is his ruckwork is below par at this stage of his development.

[stinger]

Once again the club simply fails to get the best people on board

if you had the pick again.....who would you pick.......ben or cyril........???

[stinger]

While we are at it, I really think we need to review our assistant coaches at seasons end as Adam Kingsley and Danny Sexton don't inspire confidence in my either.

If you're worried about playing records then Kingsley played 170 games, won a premiership and a best and fairest. Everyone seems to want Leigh Tudor but he only played 68 games and never won anything.

170 games...????....none of them memorable as i can't remember ever seeing him play...and have no idea who he played for.....

[SainterK]

Once again the club simply fails to get the best people on board

if you had the pick again.....who would you pick.......ben or cyril........???

Not sure if it that's simple.

Cyril wouldn't of played every game his first year under Ross, Clarkson played him as a youngster when he shouldn't of....

He probably would have well developed hamstrings now and not miss so much footy.

[PADDLEPOP1001]

But he might not have helped win a flag!

[bobmurray]

The only thing worse than our ruckwork is our clearances....

We should be near the bottom of the ladder considering how woeful we are in those areas..

OH wait....we are in the bottom 3