The Juggernaut

[White Winmar]

A "juggernaut" in colloquial English usage is a literal or metaphorical force regarded as mercilessly destructive and unstoppable. In British English, it also used to mean a large heavy truckor articulated lorry. I like the fact that SW had the ambition to make the call. You've got to start somewhere. Is it possible that we could ever become a juggernaut of this competition, the way Geelong has? I don't count the tiggers or filth, because they just believe they are juggernauts. You have to have the ultimate and sustained success the pussies have had, in order to credibly label yourself a true juggernaut. I fear that if we don't get at least somewhere close to this status, the AFL will play a significant, and I believe painful and unwelcome, role in our future.

While we might be going more like a clapped out 1970's ute at the moment, I'd like us to imagine what the juggernaut might actualy look like once we achieved that status and more importantly, what it would take to get from here to there? Just for a few moments, imagine our president propped you in the corridor at Seaford and gave you the impramatur to turn the club into the aforementioned vehicle. What would you do and where would you start? There are enough people on here who could make up a decent and realistic, and I mean realistic, plan for the club going forward. Thinking caps on forumites!

Here goes!
1. Hire whomever it was that got hold of the Hawks membership unit and hire him/her/them. Seriously, that club was so far down on its knees, it almost merged with you know who! Ever since the early 2000's their membership has steadily climbed. Only the filth outstrips them these days. We've lost 7000 members in the past two years alone. At that rate, the GWS and GCS, not to mention the perennially friendless WB and Demons will soar past us. Shyte, even that traditional membership dud, Norf has gone past us. Unbelievable. I'm sure we've got enough rust- ons and other supporters out there (according to FB we have, anyway) that would see our numbers realistically up around the 50,000 mark as a minimum within four years.


2. Rehire Leigh Tudor. Enough said. What a great record he has an as assistant. Would still have some handy relationship experience with the veterans.

3. Find the best physical conditioning coach and team. Bugger looking in the AFL. Go international. Port got their man back from Liverpool. If they can pull that sort of coup, so can we! Seriously, we "pinched" the bloke who led the WB to 11 massive second half fade outs last year. He's clearly now working his "magic" on us!

4. As much as I hate to admit it, we need a high profile President who is going to make noise and vigorously defend us (That is a legal cliche, but I'm not referring to Jack Rush QC) in front of the AFL. GT would be interesting, but I rule him out on the basis that he is already hated by head office. I know Kochie is a bit of a Kochhead, but he has certainly livened up the previously moribund Power. All serious suggestions gratefully accepted.

5. Appoint David Parkin or Ross Smith as SWs' mentor. Brains and experience. Can't beat them. Get the coach through periods of self doubt and difficulty. There's sure to be plenty of both ahead.

6. Expand the recruiting budget. Look at Geelong's recruiting personnel and structure and aim to improve on it. We don't have enough quantity and quality to compete with the perennial winners at this point. We've improved in this area, but haven't gone nearly far enough. It will be our lifeblood moving forward.

Those are my bits. Anyone else care to have a go? Those of you with experience in the finance area, please have a dip. What are some new and creative ways we could raise revenue, as this is clearly an area of major concern? I don't think all the changes have to be all that more expensive than what is being done ATM.

[jonesy]

Good post.

I especially like points 2 and 3. Was thinking about Tudor yesterday,surely someone will snaffle him up as the main man,unless he's a sh*t communicator or something.

Fitness, this current regime has taken us back to the GT era which cost us at least one flag. Staggering that we recruited that WB dud

[lloyd21]

Personally dislike calling for a Jeff Kennett type for President of Stkilda.

The guy who set Hawthorn up as a power after saving them from extinction was Ian Dicker a quiet spoken president who worked hard getting people like Geoff Harris (Flight Centre)
to basically put a Million $ every year to their bottom line every year and mentoring players (eg Trent Croad ) in the business world (Boost Juice).
Geelong for years had Frank Costa again a man who got on with quietly setting the club up assisting players in their lives after football.

Stkilda's task going forward is finding someone of this type for me.

[Life Long Saint]

7. Get our own reserves team.

[Mr Magic]

Re Memberships
I believe we actually did poach the Hawthorn guys, David Friend and Ben Hall in the early GT days and that is why our membership numbers increased.

Friend left with Waldron to go to Melbourne Storm and Hall took over the Membership Dept until he retired a few years back.
,

[markp]

7. Get our own reserves team.

Yup... forget most of the rest, that alone is key.

[Life Long Saint]

7. Get our own reserves team.

Yup... forget most of the rest, that alone is key.

I have said it many times here...
Since 2001 there have only been two premiers that haven't had its own reserves team.
West Coast 2006
Hawthorn 2008

If we want to be successful then this step is a must.

[mr six o'clock]

I love Richard harris movie's !






especially the john longmire story .

[White Winmar]

7. Get our own reserves team.

Spot on LLS. Should've been number one on the list.

[spert]

A good read... I feel the club is keeping such a low profile that it will disappear from view altogether..no wonder we can't attract high profile sponsors or even members. I too was amazed at how Hawthorn ramped up its membership drive back then, and it really takes someone at the top with drive and passion to steer the ship through the storm. I do think we need a high profile president next time around, to get the club's name and entity up and out there in all forms of media, and even though Butters and GT were incredible egotists, they were passionate Saints, and got us success and respect after years of being also-rans, the players played with incredible spirit which also rubbed off on the supporters and although we couldn't get through to a GF, we won a lot of games in an emphatic way. It's one thing to build and be safe- no risks, but jeez where's the life gone out of this club.

[White Winmar]

Personally dislike calling for a Jeff Kennett type for President of Stkilda.

The guy who set Hawthorn up as a power after saving them from extinction was Ian Dicker a quiet spoken president who worked hard getting people like Geoff Harris (Flight Centre)
to basically put a Million $ every year to their bottom line every year and mentoring players (eg Trent Croad ) in the business world (Boost Juice).
Geelong for years had Frank Costa again a man who got on with quietly setting the club up assisting players in their lives after football.

Stkilda's task going forward is finding someone of this type for me.

I don't want a Jeff Kennett either. Ian Dicker did most of the groundwork that Jeff benefited from. Ian Dicker and Frank Costa are far from quiet types. They are doers, but they were also strong and vocal when they needed to be. And they got results. Kennett would be a disaster at any club that didn't already have a strong board and was well run. Let's be frank, the Hawks won a premiership in spite of Jeff, not because of him! If we wanted headlines and column inches, we could just go for Molly as prez. Good grief!

[hayes66]

7. Get our own reserves team.

With out doubt that is number one. Then employ top development coaches. Get off Sandringham is the next move. Play at a decent size ground and watch how many players that are drafted become good AFL players.
Simple really but i honestly believe no one at the club realises how important that is!!!

[santazzi]

WW I pay a great deal of attention to your posts. I think you make a lot of sense and I also believe you have avenues to be reasonably informed on matters STK. I have no issues with your proposals in this post.

However, I have a problem with the term "Juggernaut". In the heady days of 2009 when we brushed aside all on our way, there was one thing which infuriated me at the time and still infuriates me. The head lines at the time kept on using phrases like " the STK Juggernaut rolls on..."....."the STK Juggernaut unstoppable" etc etc.......I am paraphrasing here but phrases using the term juggernaut referring to STK victories were every where...

Why do I object?...for this reason...Juggernaut has an inherent meaning of mindlessness. Pure , brute, unthinking, uncivilized, even meaningless force and violence.........

[White Winmar]

Objection duly noted and sustained. I only called it into use because SW did. I'd forgotten that word was used in 2009, but now that you mention it, the trauma of not winning in 2009 comes flooding back. I hate the fact that the best home and away season in our history ended on such a cruel note. We deserved to win it, we should have won it, but alas, we went home alone from the dance, yet again. I still feel 2009 was even worse than losing to the filth in 2010, if it's possible that anything can be worse than losing to the filth. To anyone whose memories have come back to traumatise them, I sincerely apologise. I know mine have. Damn!!!!

[SaintPav]

WW I pay a great deal of attention to your posts. I think you make a lot of sense and I also believe you have avenues to be reasonably informed on matters STK. I have no issues with your proposals in this post.

However, I have a problem with the term "Juggernaut". In the heady days of 2009 when we brushed aside all on our way, there was one thing which infuriated me at the time and still infuriates me. The head lines at the time kept on using phrases like " the STK Juggernaut rolls on..."....."the STK Juggernaut unstoppable" etc etc.......I am paraphrasing here but phrases using the term juggernaut referring to STK victories were every where...

Why do I object?...for this reason...Juggernaut has an inherent meaning of mindlessness. Pure , brute, unthinking, uncivilized, even meaningless force and violence.........

LMFAO. The use of the word "juggernaut" infuriates you? lol. How precious are you!

WW language was harmless. I can think of much much worse.

How did you then feel when the word ape was thrown around? I've read one or two poster on here refer to Etihad as "Jihad" stadium. There are other examples as well.

[Teflon]

Good thread WW and I agree with all above including our own reserves team - but you got to be able to afford to fund it......thats the worry.

IF New Zealand allows us to do that then the long term thinking/short term pain makes sense.

Id make 1 point about the OP - ALL those wish list items rely on getting the RIGHT people at the club. At various stages in the last decade we have done this and have had success.

1. Membership - we DID go after Hawks architect David Friend in this area and for a while headed nicely in the right direction.
2. Great assistant coaches - we had Leigh Tudor and others and did well here also
3. Physical conditioning - big tick for Lyon here - saw the issue, got Misson and we again had success. In short we got the best.

4,5 and 6 havent got right or tried yet but all sorely needed. The Prez one is tough.....tbh a self made, strong, media savvy and respected figure is ideal....but rare.
As for coaching mentor.......is Parkin a tad long in the tooth? not sure but agree we need someone. I thought Mark Williams at Richmond to help Hardwick was a good move

It all starts with the right people. Get them - leave the egos at the door and u have a club pulling in the right direction
Get its wrong and mistakes will be paid for for years AND if you let the egomaniacs back in to use St Kilda as their "play thing" we're all rooted.

[lloyd21]

Yeah those are not great memories ,but think what the players went thru come 2011 that would be even worse .
But you have brush yourselves down and support the club by being a member now just as the remaining senior players are
doing .Really liked Seb Ross's steely response after Sunday rapt to hear him acknowledge what Montagna, Hayes are assisting
with learning how to train , play & being professional in the way you prepare yourself.
Played only 8 games will be very interested to see what happens when the opportunity on the big stage in the future occurs.

[santazzi]

St Pav...I can assure you that I am not being precious about the term juggernaut. I think WW got my meaning. Juggernaut is one of those words often used to devalue victory by an opposing force. The term was regularly used by the media to devalue successive victories by the club 2009. That is the point I am trying to make. Those in the media damn well know what they are doing when they use the term.

[saintsRrising]

6.. Look at Geelong's recruiting personnel and structure and aim to improve on it.

.

Been there, done that...and we went backwards.
This is a bit like another club recruiting a blonde CHF and expecting him to be another Roo.

We hired The Geelong assistant Recruiter to try and ape them, but we went backwards....but often in life talent outs. Main reason why Geelong's recruiting has been so good for so long is one man. First man hired at the Suns was the recruiter!!!!!!!!!! Wise move.

Now process is important, but having the right person is often more critical. Having said that we have improved greatly post our failed Cats recruiting experiment, and our recruiting is now a lot more scientific and systematic than it was.


Well done to the Saints though when they realised that we had missed our Premiership chance in poaching Pelchen. Despite all the reluctance by the club in admitting that we are "rebuilding"...that is exactly why Pelchen was hired, and what he has been doing since he arrived. We have had a massive turnover in our list since e arrived and more will occur at seasons end. We will however not do a Melbourne, and we will retain the best of our older players.

[saintsRrising]

Here goes!
1. Hire whomever it was that got hold of the Hawks membership unit and hire him/her/them. .

We already did.

Foundation Social Club Membership was one of his ideas. He was on a huge commission though....

In Dicker the ex Hawks Pres is the one you really want.

[Con Gorozidis]

Good post WW

Maybe the Cats are so smart - when we 'headhunted' John Peake - they paid him and promised him a job if he farked us up.

dont be surprised.

[The Linton Street Flash]

Eric Bana for pres!!

[Hurricane]

BANG BANG

[White Winmar]

6.. Look at Geelong's recruiting personnel and structure and aim to improve on it.

.

Been there, done that...and we went backwards.
This is a bit like another club recruiting a blonde CHF and expecting him to be another Roo.

We hired The Geelong assistant Recruiter to try and ape them, but we went backwards....but often in life talent outs. Main reason why Geelong's recruiting has been so good for so long is one man. First man hired at the Suns was the recruiter!!!!!!!!!! Wise move.

Now process is important, but having the right person is often more critical. Having said that we have improved greatly post our failed Cats recruiting experiment, and our recruiting is now a lot more scientific and systematic than it was.


Well done to the Saints though when they realised that we had missed our Premiership chance in poaching Pelchen. Despite all the reluctance by the club in admitting that we are "rebuilding"...that is exactly why Pelchen was hired, and what he has been doing since he arrived. We have had a massive turnover in our list since e arrived and more will occur at seasons end. We will however not do a Melbourne, and we will retain the best of our older players.

Well, SR we hired one man from the cats. What do you know of our recruiting and scientific systems at the moment, as compared to when JP was in charge? Evidence for that? What we failed to do was copy their structures, networks, quantity and quality of personnel. I had the pleasure of working with JP and I can assure you he was very thorough and professional. He'd be the first to admit he made some questionable choices, but the reasons for that are far more complex than just one man's errors in judgement. As the head, he of course took the blame. A lot of people on here bag him, but he is still very highly thought of in the industry. In fact, do you know where he went post-St.Kilda? That's right, straight back to the best recruiting team in the business at Geelong, as their VFL and senior state leagues scout. Very few people also realise he worked as Stephen Wells’s right-hand man between 1998 and 2006 and in that time he played a significant role helping build the Cats’ 2007 and 09 premiership teams.

I also love the way people on here seem to think all our ills in recruiting have suddenly been magically cured. The fact is, there is a long way to go before anyone can make a definitive call on it. Yes, we have a few youngsters who are showing promise, but who knows how they'll go in the medium to long term? I'm reserving judgement for the time being. The other thing to consider is that the current crew isn't hamstrung by a coach with a short term brief as his priority. BTW, how are Lee and Milera tracking? Saad? Plenty on here are calling for him to be dropped. 13 for Hickey? I think Tom will be good, but there is a long way to go. Jay Lever years away yet, if at all. Matter of perception I guess and it is a tricky business.