New Assistant Coaches required !

[plugger66]

Beutifully answered and thanks st_Trav_ofWA for taking the time to respond, but fair dinkum...

Some of the posts on here provide clear evidence of why we need the foe system on Saintsational

I occasionally have a read of some of my foes, but WinnersOnly is on permanent ignore

Reply then scollop ? Are you related to Plugger with the ridicule but does not offer an opinion on anything !

I gave my opinion. Your post was crap and i said why. I cannot give anymore opinion on assistant coaches because i dont think we need to change them.

[Teflon]

Well we are 8 games into the season with only 2 wins on the board. The question is why. And from reading the comments on this site it seems to come down to one (or more) of the following:

(A) We are in a rebuilding phase with an abundance of young inexperienced players
(B) The Senior Coach is no good
(C) The mid field coach is no good
(D) None of the assistant coaches are any good
(E) The fitness guys are no good.

I think most people would accept that (A) is happening.

Now the existence of (A) in itself does not mean that (B), (C), (D) or (E) can’t also be valid.

However the existence of (A) makes it impossible, IMO, to assesses accurately whether or not there is any validation in (B), (C), (D) or (E) or if there is, how much validation.

We’re all just guessing and that’s hardly the basis on which to start demanding termination slips down Seaford way.

The only thing illogical with all that is attempting to somehow apply that to a football fan forum based on opinion and full of emotion - that to me is the definition of illogical.

I dont subscribe to your opinion that the "existence of A" basically makes it impossible to assess current performance of those in football related roles at the club. IF that was so, all football clubs rebuilding would have no basis to assess coaches/support staff performance.....that doesn't happen - re build or not.

[Teflon]

Some small town narrow mindedness on show there... - what looking out side the good ol victorian boys club is small town narrow mindedness ?? i would think your narrow mindedness is showing thinking where an assistant coach was born has impact on their ability to do their job Look at me I found the color button! You brought Micahel (you can correct spelling he's your love child) into this discussion when you TOLD us the "best availabel happen to be from WA.."....WHOO some home town parochialism there...

I couldn't give a toss where Mcgale (Who?) you know LOVE GOD comes from as long as he delivers. - both Micale and Mcphee at the moment seem to be doing a decent job do we not have kids making the grade at AFL level at the moment ? to me thats delivering Dont see what that has to do with Dean Laidley - please get off small town hobby horse..

I do KNOW Dean hasn't delivered anywhere (how's Ports midfield going this year????) - again maybe i need to space it out for you ... Dean....was....on....a......stupid.....FIFO.....arangement.....with......Port.... its pretty hard to be successful with a group when you ultimatly dont want to be there and they dont really care if you only fly in for game day... thats Ports stupidity for allowing it So...(while we are spacing)...Deano DID NOT want to be at Port....took the job, failed and its ALL Ports fault??? Could it possibly be Deano TOOK the Port job cause (as was widely reported in media here) HE COULD NOT GET A GIG IN MELBOURNE?

I laugh at how Leigh Tudors impressive assistant record is only cause he "jumps ship" yet Deans miserable coaching record is explained away. - name me a club Leigh Tudor has been at from the rebuild phase ... he is a good assistant coach and im not doubting that but he is very selective where he chooses to go .. you wont see leigh going to the Dee's any time soon... if we were to get leigh at this stage it would be a waste as we need a list builder not a finisher Go back and READ both Ross Lyon and Mark Thompson's views on the impact Leigh Tudor had on St Kilda's game style BEFORE we started becoming successful...cant develop according to you?. Tudor now looks after Sydneys midfield.....a group that has just won a Premiership after many said they were past it............compare that to Deano...you dont need to be a rocket scientist to work out who has the runs on the boards FFS!...again, your telling me how Leigh makes his decisions which cliubs he joins....like you know him? Im amazed.

The "best" aren't all from WA otherwise Lyin wouldn't be coaching Dockers..... Dean would be... - never said the best are all from WA yes you did...go read your last post... in our case the best available were the guys from WA (funny enough Dean has lived more years in Victoria then WA yet he is lumped in as part of the WA invasion)- and i never said Dean Laidly was the best coach to ever coach i did say he is a decent assitant coach for us why? what are you basing this on? our continued success?

End story - you have zilch to suggest Laidley can coach - I have facts that he's failed miseray at 2 AFL clubs and IMO is on his 3rd and last chance - you mistake the word facts with the word opinion ... if being an assistant next to Malthouse ad the pies is failing miserably see Mark Neeld - so what?? plenty of cabbage assistants have gotten roles in AFL under good coaches - seen John Barker lately??? if then getting a head coaching role at north and holding that for 7 seasons is failing miserably how was his PERFORMANCE during that time?? I could care less he got the job - Grant Thomas got a job via mates rates getting the job aint success FFS if getting an assistants role at port and then being valued enough to allow a pathetic FIFO arrangemnt is failing miserably nasty old Port again....all their fault again???? if then getting a senior assitant coach role at St Kilda is failing miserably then your right again your success criteria is he LANDED A JOB FFS, again hows that midfield working out for ya?? yiu actually need to DELIVER and not just get jobs in mates rates footy land...... but lets deal in actual Facts 4 clubs have employed Dean as a coach in some capacity so either he is brilliant in fooling these clubs or he might actualy know a thing or two about coaching or after 1 senior gig Dean couldnt get another job and had to settle for some weird deal at Port (only club who would take him) otherwise he was out of football in Melbourne......why would he take a job at Port he DID NOT WANT according to you????? not many knocking down his door is the answer...unlike Tudor..

Next you'll be telling us Mark Harvey (certified cabbage) was just quietly building at Freo and was the right man to lead the charge.... - as an assistant coch Mark Harvey has value as a head coach he was out of his depth .. what this has to do with Dean Laidly and his ability is unknown but he ill answer anything you ask me

[/quote]

Mark Harvey HID under Kevin Sheedy's skirt for years - everyone knows that.
He famously bagged out our club as "rabble he wouldnt go to" only to finally step out on the stage to show us all his wares and was proven a spaz. Lyon has already improved the Dockers - even in the face of injuries they are playing a tougher brand of footy and winning in Melbourne (Harvey was dreaming of it).

Take your WA glasses off FFS.

[Bernard Shakey]

Well we are 8 games into the season with only 2 wins on the board. The question is why. And from reading the comments on this site it seems to come down to one (or more) of the following:

(A) We are in a rebuilding phase with an abundance of young inexperienced players
(B) The Senior Coach is no good
(C) The mid field coach is no good
(D) None of the assistant coaches are any good
(E) The fitness guys are no good.

I think most people would accept that (A) is happening.

Now the existence of (A) in itself does not mean that (B), (C), (D) or (E) can’t also be valid.

However the existence of (A) makes it impossible, IMO, to assesses accurately whether or not there is any validation in (B), (C), (D) or (E) or if there is, how much validation.

We’re all just guessing and that’s hardly the basis on which to start demanding termination slips down Seaford way.

Zachary!

[gringo]

Mark Harvey built the list and lost his job after a year in which they struggled to field a team due to injuries. Ross Lyon came in after Leonardo painted the Mona Lisa put a beauty spot on her face and entered it in an art prize.

[Jacks Back]

Well we are 8 games into the season with only 2 wins on the board. The question is why. And from reading the comments on this site it seems to come down to one (or more) of the following:

(A) We are in a rebuilding phase with an abundance of young inexperienced players
(B) The Senior Coach is no good
(C) The mid field coach is no good
(D) None of the assistant coaches are any good
(E) The fitness guys are no good.

I think most people would accept that (A) is happening.

Now the existence of (A) in itself does not mean that (B), (C), (D) or (E) can’t also be valid.

However the existence of (A) makes it impossible, IMO, to assesses accurately whether or not there is any validation in (B), (C), (D) or (E) or if there is, how much validation.

I think we're (F)'d.

(at least for the next 1 or 2 years)

[Teflon]

Mark Harvey built the list and lost his job after a year in which they struggled to field a team due to injuries. Ross Lyon came in after Leonardo painted the Mona Lisa put a beauty spot on her face and entered it in an art prize.

yes...yes....poor Mark the architect....."the list" was just about to play the steely footy Lyon has them now playing except poor Mark just hadnt pulled out of his bottom the smoking gun game plan he was keeping from them...

Please.

The man was borderline simple. Utter fool.

I give Freo credit for 1 thing - they knew desperately they had a cabbage on their hands and the club was a basket case - they wanted someone who would demand success and had proven he could get an entire list to play his way. Lyon fits that bill.

[Greg T]

Under the " imbecile Mark Harvey " Freo were an absolute basket case ,barely winning games there,
When a club sacks a coach as in his circumstances,that speaks volumes of where he was taking the club,
or better still, where he wasn't taking them.
Anyone who can't see what Lyon has done there already ,welllll.
Harvey was devaluing their brand big time,he got his just deserts,especially after his comments about the Saints.
Let face it,he can't even build a pool fence right!!

I was hoping from the start we could attract an assistant coach in the vein of Chocco Williams or his ilk.
SW to my knowledge has brought these people to the club,so it rests on his head as to the development
and direction of the club.

I'm more of the opinion we need results based coaches with experience rather than who's available from WA.
SW will live and die by this sword IMO.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Some small town narrow mindedness on show there... - what looking out side the good ol victorian boys club is small town narrow mindedness ?? i would think your narrow mindedness is showing thinking where an assistant coach was born has impact on their ability to do their job Look at me I found the color button! You brought Micahel (you can correct spelling he's your love child) into this discussion when you TOLD us the "best availabel happen to be from WA.."....WHOO some home town parochialism there... - see this is where you fall down we have a debate and you resort to silly little name calling like that some how proves your point ? i dont know why me saying Tony Michale is a good developer and good get for our club gets twisted into him being my love child ... obviously having a possitive thought on someone in your eyes means they are a love child well hate to break it to you but i think all of our appointments to the football department are good gets for the club (regardless of where they come from )

I couldn't give a toss where Mcgale (Who?) you know LOVE GOD - wasnt sure if you were talking about Micale or Mcphee not taking the piss out of your spelling of the name comes from as long as he delivers. - both Micale and Mcphee at the moment seem to be doing a decent job do we not have kids making the grade at AFL level at the moment ? to me thats delivering Dont see what that has to do with Dean Laidley - please get off small town hobby horse.. - your comment was we need less WA people i dont see where a person is born has two parts of stuff all on how they do their job you say for me to get off my small town hobby horse yet you are the one saing we should draw a line through anyone from WA? i dont care if the bloke is Victorian WA QLD SA or from Greater Meekong if the club feel he is the best candidate ill will trust they know more about the decision to hire them and trust their choice- you want to narrow the search to only victoria yet im on the small town horse ??
I do KNOW Dean hasn't delivered anywhere (how's Ports midfield going this year????) - again maybe i need to space it out for you ... Dean....was....on....a......stupid.....FIFO.....arangement.....with......Port.... its pretty hard to be successful with a group when you ultimatly dont want to be there and they dont really care if you only fly in for game day... thats Ports stupidity for allowing it So...(while we are spacing)...Deano DID NOT want to be at Port....took the job, failed and its ALL Ports fault??? Could it possibly be Deano TOOK the Port job cause (as was widely reported in media here) HE COULD NOT GET A GIG IN MELBOURNE?
- Dean actually did a year with port living in south australia he chose to come back to Melbourne for family reasons Port not wanting to loose him offered up the stupid FIFO role that was reportedly only taken up by Dean as a favour to help out the club... Dean couldnt get a gig in Melbourne yet magically got a job at st kilda how exactly did that happen? do you not think our club might have just a little bit more of a clue about who is a good fit for the club than you do ?
I laugh at how Leigh Tudors impressive assistant record is only cause he "jumps ship" yet Deans miserable coaching record is explained away. - name me a club Leigh Tudor has been at from the rebuild phase ... he is a good assistant coach and im not doubting that but he is very selective where he chooses to go .. you wont see leigh going to the Dee's any time soon... if we were to get leigh at this stage it would be a waste as we need a list builder not a finisher Go back and READ both Ross Lyon and Mark Thompson's views on the impact Leigh Tudor had on St Kilda's game style BEFORE we started becoming successful...cant develop according to you?. Tudor now looks after Sydneys midfield.....a group that has just won a Premiership after many said they were past it............compare that to Deano...you dont need to be a rocket scientist to work out who has the runs on the boards FFS!...again, your telling me how Leigh makes his decisions which cliubs he joins....like you know him? Im amazed.
- again your making it out to be like we had a choice between Leigh Tudor and Dean Laidley thats not the case Leigh left us a fair while ago its not like we sacked Leigh Tudor either he walked (to another finals bound team)... this is not an argument on who is better between Dean Laidley or Leigh Tudor it is an argument over if Dean Laidley has value to the St Kilda football club you think he doesnt i think he does , the st kilda football club agree with me a handfull of posters on an internet forum agree with you ...

The "best" aren't all from WA otherwise Lyin wouldn't be coaching Dockers..... Dean would be... - never said the best are all from WA [ yes you did...go read your last post... in our case the best available were the guys from WA (funny enough Dean has lived more years in Victoria then WA yet he is lumped in as part of the WA invasion)- and i never said Dean Laidly was the best coach to ever coach i did say he is a decent assitant coach for us [/color] why? what are you basing this on? our continued success? - the fact they got the job says they were the best for the job... do you think the St Kilda football club sat back when doing the interviews for the job and thought " you know what mr xx is much better for this role but stuff that lets just hire the guy from WA" the club went through its process and hired the best people it could for the job again i trust their judgment over yours every day of the year

End story - you have zilch to suggest Laidley can coach - I have facts that he's failed miseray at 2 AFL clubs and IMO is on his 3rd and last chance - you mistake the word facts with the word opinion ... if being an assistant next to Malthouse ad the pies is failing miserably see Mark Neeld - so what?? plenty of cabbage assistants have gotten roles in AFL under good coaches - seen John Barker lately??? if then getting a head coaching role at north and holding that for 7 seasons is failing miserably how was his PERFORMANCE during that time?? I could care less he got the job - Grant Thomas got a job via mates rates getting the job aint success FFS if getting an assistants role at port and then being valued enough to allow a pathetic FIFO arrangemnt is failing miserably nasty old Port again....all their fault again???? if then getting a senior assitant coach role at St Kilda is failing miserably then your right again your success criteria is he LANDED A JOB FFS, again hows that midfield working out for ya?? yiu actually need to DELIVER and not just get jobs in mates rates footy land. - so you are saying Dean Laidly got a job at St Kilda cause its "jobs for mates" who exactly is this mate at St Kilda who has given him this job then?? you talk about the midfield like its failings are because of coaching so are you discounting the fact we have a pretty weak midfeild in general? we are in rebuild we are building that midfield unfortunatly we cant draft players to come into it until the end of the year so sadly your going to see more of it failing and it matters not at all who the coach is .....

but lets deal in actual Facts 4 clubs have employed Dean as a coach in some capacity so either he is brilliant in fooling these clubs or he might actualy know a thing or two about coaching or after 1 senior gig Dean couldnt get another job and had to settle for some weird deal at Port (only club who would take him) otherwise he was out of football in Melbourne......why would he take a job at Port he DID NOT WANT according to you????? not many knocking down his door is the answer...unlike Tudor.. again its not a Tudor Vs Laidley option ... you really have a hardon for him but honestly pineing for him is as pointless as pineing for Goddard to come back or Luke Ball very unlikely to ever happen ...
Next you'll be telling us Mark Harvey (certified cabbage) was just quietly building at Freo and was the right man to lead the charge.... - as an assistant coch Mark Harvey has value as a head coach he was out of his depth .. what this has to do with Dean Laidly and his ability is unknown but he ill answer anything you ask me

Mark Harvey HID under Kevin Sheedy's skirt for years - everyone knows that.
He famously bagged out our club as "rabble he wouldnt go to" only to finally step out on the stage to show us all his wares and was proven a spaz. Lyon has already improved the Dockers - even in the face of injuries they are playing a tougher brand of footy and winning in Melbourne (Harvey was dreaming of it). - again what exactly has Mark Harvey got to do with any of this ? you have lost me with why we are even discussing him
Take your WA glasses off FFS. - yawn obviously you put your support behind a WA person and happen to be from WA then you have your WA glasses on ... i support the st kilda football club and unlike you i dont give a rats where the people working at our club were born [/quote]

[st_Trav_ofWA]

sorry to the other posters that this spat with Teflon is kinda over taking this tread

[plugger66]

sorry to the other posters that this spat with Teflon is kinda over taking this tread

Its good reading. And its better than me versus everyone else.

[joffaboy]

sorry to the other posters that this spat with Teflon is kinda over taking this tread

Its good reading. And its better than me versus everyone else.

Not reading it but at least it is colourful.

[merimbula]

Yes it is!

[Mr Magic]

A request fro St Trav,
Please use colours other than the yellow and light blue - I don't have the greatest eyesight and I find those particular colours very difficult to read.

[plugger66]

A request fro St Trav,
Please use colours other than the yellow and light blue - I don't have the greatest eyesight and I find those particular colours very difficult to read.

I dont understand your post. It says the following.


A request fro St Trav,
Please use colours other than the and - I don't have the greatest eyesight and I find those particular colours very difficult to read

[SaintPav]

So Mark Harvey was a dud. Big deal. He joins the conga line of failed AFL coaches which Lyon, Watters and nearly every other coach will eventually join or a member of.

BTW. Notwithstanding that Freo had to take the opportunity, Harvey was screwed big time but he did ok given the circumstances. He went well on Sat though.

[Greg T]

sorry to the other posters that this spat with Teflon is kinda over taking this tread

Its good reading. And its better than me versus everyone else.

Agree,great read for sure...

[SaintPav]

sorry to the other posters that this spat with Teflon is kinda over taking this tread

Its good reading. And its better than me versus everyone else.

LOL. But you just made it about you by writing that.

[Teflon]

So Mark Harvey was a dud.

Finally some sense!

[Teflon]

Hi all,

I'd like to also apologise to all for taking over this thread (I personally couldn't give a toss but it feels right..)

back on track:

Still not 1 shred of evidence to support "Dean Laidley SUCCESSFUL Master Tactician and Coach" theory other than some sort of weird personal admiration...

Carry on.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Hi all,

I'd like to also apologise to all for taking over this thread (I personally couldn't give a toss but it feels right..)

back on track:

Still not 1 shred of evidence to support "Dean Laidley SUCCESSFUL Master Tactician and Coach" theory other than some sort of weird personal admiration...

Carry on.

who called him a SUCCESSFUL Master Tactician and Coach ?
i said he doesnt deserve to be sacked based on the natural tradjectory that our club is facing ...
given we are rebuilding and taking into account the realistic expectation of our teams chances this year while working on the rebuild we have so far had two losses that have been disapointing - the Gold Coast game (that i felt we should have won) and last weeks game (not the actual loss but the nature of the loss especially in the last half) .
in all the games this year we have shown the effort and the desire from the team and in every game we have compeated well for long periods of time and it has been only the lack of skill or the drop off of form ( a factor that comes into play with a vastly inexperianced group with a reliance on a handful of over 30yo battle weary stars)..
to me we are going ok and prob. better than expected we are getting games into the kids without them getting disheartend by constant floggings - thats not to say the floggings arent comming

[spert]

Every coach should be sacked at least once

[The OtherThommo]

I don't reckon assistant coaches make anywhere near the difference made by the list management chieftains. We knew our list was approaching unbalanced (age brackets and types) when we got Pelchen - it's why we got him. Years of crap drafting and trading magnified the holes. So, in response to years of neglect and grasping at the short term glory (justified, in part), Pelchen has set out to repair the holes. He seems to have assembled a good group to manage the list, certainly compared to their predecessors. This year we've played more young draftees in 8 rounds than we played in (guessing) 2 or 3 years under the previous list managers. Thus far we seem to have found a couple, who can hold their end up already (Wright and Webster) and the others have shown a bit.
To support the change in list emphasis, we've assembled a group of assistants with apparent strengths in development. Assistants to the senior coach on match days have a range of capabilities. Assistant coaches move clubs on a merry go round. All have some strengths and some weaknesses (that's why they're assistants). In the end, comparatively, they make bugger all difference. It is the senior coach, those in charge of football and the list management group who drive performance over the medium term - the assistants seek to hone the rough edges and exploit tactical advantages in individual games.
And, just to add to Doc Spacey's earlier list, I'd like to add player continuity in the back half. At the start of the season we had an acknowledged deficiency in blokes who could hold up in the back half, particularly against bigger forwards.
Fisher and Dempster (our 2 AA defenders) both had shabby preseasons. Fish didn't play round 1, and was still in a moon boot 2 days before playing round 2. Dempster busted a bone in round 2. Jimmy got injured early and missed 4 or 5. The impressive Wright has had a busted jaw, Newnes likewise. Gilbert, after his best start since about '09, did his knee midway through a game we led against Collingwood. All of them back half options. No continuity.
Meanwhile up the other end, none of the small forwards have got the ball consistently - but they ain't been injured. I'd argue our performances would look at lot better if the wee smallies had had the lack of continuity we've seen in the back half, and the back half had been comparatively available. You play with the list you've got. But, when you have a deficiency in a major facet of the game, just pray that's where you have continuity. You play with the list you've got.
Pelchen et al have constructed a list that will have an enormous amount of cap room come year's end. This year we'll exploit that, and go further towards reconstructing the list to plug the holes.
They've got a plan and I'm happy with it.
And, please, Barry Hall and Lingy? Spare me. 1 can't even speak properly and the other 1 is focussed on his Costa facilitated
business interests - and he talks the bleeding obvious most of the time, which is what happens when you work in the populist media (particularly responding to "Brain" Taylor's inanities).
Assistant coaches? Comparatively little influence. And, they'll probably move around at year's end anyway, 'cos that's what happens.

[Teflon]

Hi all,

I'd like to also apologise to all for taking over this thread (I personally couldn't give a toss but it feels right..)

back on track:

Still not 1 shred of evidence to support "Dean Laidley SUCCESSFUL Master Tactician and Coach" theory other than some sort of weird personal admiration...

Carry on.

who called him a SUCCESSFUL Master Tactician and Coach ?
i said he doesnt deserve to be sacked based on the natural tradjectory that our club is facing ...
given we are rebuilding and taking into account the realistic expectation of our teams chances this year while working on the rebuild we have so far had two losses that have been disapointing - the Gold Coast game (that i felt we should have won) and last weeks game (not the actual loss but the nature of the loss especially in the last half) .
in all the games this year we have shown the effort and the desire from the team and in every game we have compeated well for long periods of time and it has been only the lack of skill or the drop off of form ( a factor that comes into play with a vastly inexperianced group with a reliance on a handful of over 30yo battle weary stars)..
to me we are going ok and prob. better than expected we are getting games into the kids without them getting disheartend by constant floggings - thats not to say the floggings arent comming

Show me AGAIN where I wantsiey sacked now???????

2 losses poor only?? You happy with the flogging the Bombers gave us?? Forget final margin they belted us - I watched it live. Should have been 100 points.

Wake up - and stop trying to hide ALL poor performances under "oh but we're re-building" the coach is demanding effort we should too.

[lloyd21]

Personally would like more line coaches given have young list next year

Nathan Bassett Defence

Scott Burns Or Adam Simpson Or Nigel Lappin -midfield

Lenny Hayes - Academy