Tough Decisions

[damienc]

I'm going to throw some stuff out there that some of you aren't going to like.

Fully accept and understand that we are in the rebuilding phase. Again.

Have no problem with the coach or the support staff.

The strategy of giving the kids a go is good and let's keep doing it. Also accept we are probably going to be lucky to win five games this season. As a supporter I can live with that. I have to.

We just aren't good enough at the moment. But....if we are rebuilding then let's start making some tough decisions. Let's toss sentiment to one side and get rid of the dead wood in our team.

Starting with Kosi. He's definitely played his last game for the Saints or at least I hope so. He's probably going to get a couple of weeks holiday anyway for that elbow to the head.

This bloke can't cut it. Has never cut it. Won't ever cut it. While you are at it add S Milne's name to the list. Yes I can hear you saying is he mad? This bloke is a superstar. Correction was a superstar. Is no longer.

I don't know how many games he will get this year. On the strength of his last two not many I wouldn't have thought.

Then add N Del Santo. I am on a roll. Again another one past his use by date. You might even throw in S Fisher as well. Not sure what's going on with Saad but he was an under performer and needs some time in the two's. He's been RS ever since we offered him a contract extension.

But getting back to the expendables.

If we are ever going to amount to anything then we need to subtract as ruthlessly as we add. Time to go boys. We wish you well but as a football club we need to move on.

[Toy Saint]

Hey Damien, you're talking tough, but there's a big difference between talk and reality.

Kosi has been a servant of this club, and is near the end of his career. He will probably only play if we need his experience or size. He has no trade value. Show some respect.

Saad is a young player who grew up in Egypt and just started playing football. He will probably get better, or possibly not. Give him a chance, he may end up a good player.

Sam Fisher is a key backman who missed a lot of pre season, we are desperately short of key backmen, we cannot do without him.

Nick Del Santo is class player, he uses the ball well, and we need all the class we can get.

Even if you got rid of these guys, you'll need to replace them. How and where do you propose to find better replacements?

[magnifisaint]

can't believe the "experts" on this site. Some of the stuff written is total crap re OP NFI.
Sorry but the guys who have played for the club deserve a bit of respect.

[BigMart]

"Reputation mean nothing going forward" Scott Watters

I think he need to put together what he thinks a future finals team looks like and draft/develop replacements for senior players as they retire...

Get games into talented kids

[mr six o'clock]

I don't think it will be that hard to know who wont be at the saints next year !

It just depends on how many we have to cut !

Over 30s
blake
kosi
milne ( unless his form improves )
Lenny ( depending on if he wants to continue )

under 30s
ray
snides ( injury prone )

Tradable
joey
dal
Cj
ledger


Next year were going to have one of the youngest lists in the Afl !

[SaintPav]

This bloke can't cut it. Has never cut it. Won't ever cut it.

So Kosi has NEVER cut it has he?

played nearly 200 games

Kicked nearly 250 goals.

Had a very good season in 2009.

Played well in the GF draw and would have gone down as a club legend.

He has his faults and there are plenty, but to say that he has NEVER cut it is an exaggeration and pretty stupid actually.

[spert]

We have deficiencies in the team and that's why we are not winning, regardless of who the player is, I'm sure they are all having a genuine crack at winning, but actual winning form is another story. Some experienced players are not doing well- NDS, Kosi, Milne and Fisher are shadows of their former selves, and that's four positions on the ground that are not contributing enough. Of the younger guys, Saad is not doing anywhere near enough, so that's five positions across the ground that need addressing..one backman, one midfield, two forwards and a forward/ ruck who are not playing with the required output, and with two small forwards hardly getting amongst the goals- that is a real issue, a goal here and a goal there is not good enough to win. I'm not sure if Watters is getting his message across or whatever, or his game plan is flawed, but it doesn't look good for wins for the rest of the season.

[joffaboy]

yes, the older players need to be exited out, but we dont want to go along the lines of Melbourne or the current GWS.

Can kill a kids career by playing them too early.

We have plenty of kids rotating through the team, which despite our 1-5 start have been competitive.

need to keep our structures and keep our nerve.

keep playing the kids, absolutely, but getting rid of so many experienced heads would be a disaster for the club.

[bobmurray]

It's all right showing respect for players but respect won't win matches.

If they can't cut it then they should be dumped, Watters needs to evolve the team into one that can compete
with the top teams. I don't care who goes if it helps the team..

[vacuous space]

Agree with JB. Kids should be made to earn their spot. Nothing good comes from giving teenagers a greater sense of entitlement than they already have. Wright is clearly ready for this level. Murdoch, Ross and Saunders have shown signs, but they've got a lot of work to do. Lee looked a fair way off. No reason to rush anyone. Kids generally let you know when they're ready.

[Greg T]

This bloke can't cut it. Has never cut it. Won't ever cut it.

So Kosi has NEVER cut it has he?

played nearly 200 games

Kicked nearly 250 goals.

Had a very good season in 2009.

Played well in the GF draw and would have gone down as a club legend.

He has his faults and there are plenty, but to say that he has NEVER cut it is an exaggeration and pretty stupid actually.

Top post saintpav,
You could fill a book with some of the duds we've had in his time...

[HitTheBoundary]

I think he need to put together what he thinks a future finals team looks like and draft/develop replacements for senior players as they retire...

[ljpoyz]

If they decided to push Kosi/Milne into retirement and traded Dal and Fisher for reasonable currency I wouldn't be shattered. The club is bigger than those four, despite their outstanding service.

[Zed]

It's blakes last season and he will only be backfill for injury

It has to be Kosi's last season. He has been a real servant and I would like the club to gift him 3 more games this year to get him to 200. We can't make finals and 3 games isn't going to stunt anyones development. It would be a wonderful send off.

With the dearth of small forwards it should also be Milneys last season. Saad despite being poor this year will get better. Schneids also needs a spot, Milera is still challenging and then there is always a few first year players who can pinch hit.

I get the feeling Lenny will go around 1 more year, Roo 2 more.

If someone offered a first round pick for Dal you would have to look at it - but I think he will be a 1club man.

[bobmurray]

It's blakes last season and he will only be backfill for injury

It has to be Kosi's last season. He has been a real servant and I would like the club to gift him 3 more games this year to get him to 200. We can't make finals and 3 games isn't going to stunt anyones development. It would be a wonderful send off.

With the dearth of small forwards it should also be Milneys last season. Saad despite being poor this year will get better. Schneids also needs a spot, Milera is still challenging and then there is always a few first year players who can pinch hit.

I get the feeling Lenny will go around 1 more year, Roo 2 more.

If someone offered a first round pick for Dal you would have to look at it - but I think he will be a 1club man.

I don't believe there are any clubs silly enough to offer a 1st round draft pick for the modern day DalSanto...

he is recently married, he seems to lack the energy to dig deep...any coincidence

[falka]

Perspective please. 3 kids Newnes Saunders Murdoch 0 touches between them in last quarter. We just need Dal contributing, coach needs to move him around. Watching Cats there 29 year olds play flanks more. We should chop our champs out more to prolong them.

[gringo]

Mooney said on SEN on friday that the Cats fast tracked their guys in 2011 and said they get up heaps faster with the old guys beside them. Why were Sydney, West Coast, Collingwood and Hawks able to get kids into players quicker- because they learnt without the confidence crippling losses and a good example.

[falka]

But you also need good kids

[Griggsy]

Would have said you are mad at the start of the season.

The biggest thing I've learnt from the first 5 rounds is that 2009 was a long long time ago, it was the peak. 9 players that played that grandfinal are no longer with us, 7 are in their 30s or turning 30, another stuck on the fringe. Whos left from that? Dal and Dempster who turn 30 next year, Jones and Gilbert who are a bit of whipping boys on here and Schneider who is having injury trouble. Fast forward another year to 2010 GF and all you can add that list is Gwilt.

Its a new generation for saints and it does excite me, but holding on will only prolong the pain, rip off the bandaid.
Any change for the future needs to be considered with an open mind, it may be hard at first but if it could mean multiple less years of pain down the road, then the move must be made. We know who the club legends are and will honour them no matter what their fate is by the end of the season.

[bobmurray]

Would have said you are mad at the start of the season.

The biggest thing I've learnt from the first 5 rounds is that 2009 was a long long time ago, it was the peak. 9 players that played that grandfinal are no longer with us, 7 are in their 30s or turning 30, another stuck on the fringe. Whos left from that? Dal and Dempster who turn 30 next year, Jones and Gilbert who are a bit of whipping boys on here and Schneider who is having injury trouble. Fast forward another year to 2010 GF and all you can add that list is Gwilt.

Its a new generation for saints and it does excite me, but holding on will only prolong the pain, rip off the bandaid.
Any change for the future needs to be considered with an open mind, it may be hard at first but if it could mean multiple less years of pain down the road, then the move must be made. We know who the club legends are and will honour them no matter what their fate is by the end of the season.

Maybe those that can't let go will learn something from your post, we need to evolve, the players that got us there in 09 and 10 won't get us there again, they will have to be phased out...

That's life folks...Keep evolving Scott.....or rejuvenating if that's what you insist...

[PurpleHayes]

It's all right showing respect for players but respect won't win matches.

If they can't cut it then they should be dumped, Watters needs to evolve the team into one that can compete
with the top teams. I don't care who goes if it helps the team..

Ok Bobmurray so when you dump the players who apparently 'can't cut it' who the faaaak do you suggest replaces
Them!?

Lets pull Leigh fisher off the umpires deserves?! Ha

[Teflon]

i think all need to chill a bit.

We should not trade out Dal/Fishers etc IF they want to stay. We are years off challenging and their role now is teach. Maybe we just need toaccept that Dal is cooked as a prime moving mid and as has been suggested he becomes a flanker. Either way no doubt kids will develop faster IF they get the chance to spend some time roiund these guys. Im actually depserate for Lee and maybe White to play alongside Riewoldt.....even a season......it will help.

As for just chucking out all old/non performing players who have given and been loyal servants...in an age of free agency what does that say to the young crop coming through????..."saints are loyal...till you hit 30ish....." as a club we need to get better at how we treat our champs.

The retirements will be phased - have to be.

This season IMO its goodbye to Kosi, Milne, Blake (Hayes to make his own call). There will be others but that will be club enforced due to list shape - I think Jones would be looked at going fwd.

I actually think Dal, Riewoldt, Montagna have 2 left in them...Fisher...maybe 1 and if Gwilt cant hit form and Schneider keeps getting injured.....

Regardless, we wont and shouldnt be throwing out everyone for next years based on this year. We've been competitive no, we arent winning but really right now thats now that's not no 1 priority despite what everyone says (ofcourse we are trying to) but reality is development of the next batch and fast tracking this is what we are now about for the next 2-3.

[bobmurray]

It's all right showing respect for players but respect won't win matches.

If they can't cut it then they should be dumped, Watters needs to evolve the team into one that can compete
with the top teams. I don't care who goes if it helps the team..

Ok Bobmurray so when you dump the players who apparently 'can't cut it' who the faaaak do you suggest replaces
Them!?

Lets pull Leigh fisher off the umpires deserves?! Ha

Wanker

[bigcarl]

Perspective please. 3 kids Newnes Saunders Murdoch 0 touches between them in last quarter. We just need Dal contributing, coach needs to move him around. Watching Cats there 29 year olds play flanks more. We should chop our champs out more to prolong them.

good call

[Hurricane]

I dont think the over 30s need to be moved out or moved on.

Look at Melbourne. They have traded everyone with any any value to load up on kids and it stuck them in a hole for at least 4-5 more years. Manchester United just won the Premier League title with weeks to spare with the oldest squad going around. Its not about age its about desire and commitment. I dont care if a player is 18 or 38 if they can cut it and add value then they stay on the list.

Its clear we need a mix of experience and youth to make an impact. If we can trade away some of the players with no value to us and we can fill our needs we can challenge again before too long

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