Just need to come to grips with where we're at

[lefty]

Tigers will end up coming to reality later during the season. Carlton stated the season last year the same way and didn't make the 8.
Essendon did the same thing, how good are we, yada yada and faded.
I just get annoyed at the arrogance of the Richmond members, probably worse than Collingwood atm.

Freo will win the flag this year anyway.

if you want to do a full rebuild, at least all the mature guys will retire at once, meaning we're not playing a mi of young and old, we'd have the majority as young blokes with a few of our current 23-27 old's.

[battye]

From 2004 to 2010 we were a contender and gave it a good shake. It's gone. We've got to accept that it will take a while to build towards our next tilt. That's one of the reasons Pelchen was brought in. But it's going to take more than a couple of weeks. You can't build a list in a year or even two.

Yeah, we had a good era. We came close but unfortunately history will ultimately remember it as a missed opportunity.

The writing was on the wall last year but the loss to Gold Coast pretty much confirms it. Our best players are on the wrong side of 30 or very close to it, we have very little in the way of young talent coming through, and the jury is still out on whether Watters can coach at AFL level. The concerning thing is that we can still drop further; take out our senior players and we're left with not a lot.

Even though I think the next couple of years will be tough, football is cyclical. We will bounce back. It took us about 5 years to bounce back after success in the late 90's and I think it's probably reasonable to suggest it will take around another 5 years from now to build a new team and develop the next core group that can contest a premiership. I wish it would happen sooner but the reality is that we can't become a powerful unit overnight.

[Sainternist]

I hope we don't bottom out like a Melbourne. That is the worst case scenario.

I just want to see the team putting in a good effort week in, week out. I'd like to see signs of improvement and for them to be competetive like they were last night. They are pretty much my hopes for this year.

[lefty]

I also think people are taking too much into the GC loss.

Of course the younger teams/blokes are going to be keen/fresh at the start of the year, they are ALWAYS the danger games

1997 we started the season 5 losses straight IIRC.

Doesn't matter much though, Freo are my favorites to win the flag this year anyway.

[whiskers3614]

I also think people are taking too much into the GC loss.

Of course the younger teams/blokes are going to be keen/fresh at the start of the year, they are ALWAYS the danger games

1997 we started the season 5 losses straight IIRC.

Doesn't matter much though, Freo are my favorites to win the flag this year anyway.

give all the Lyon lovers something to smile about.
fair dinkum if that turd wins a flag I will start going to soccer instead of footy!

[kalsaint]

0-2 is where we are at. Can anyone remember the last time we started 0-2 to a season?

I remember 1997 when we had 1:5 but got to the grand final as things stared to piece together. The difference here is the youth is not sufficiently developed to have the same impact as those in the 1997 team. We also had some good ball delivery from our midfield.

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

0-2 is where we are at. Can anyone remember the last time we started 0-2 to a season?

2000

[Scollop]

From 2004 to 2010 we were a contender and gave it a good shake. It's gone. We've got to accept that it will take a while to build towards our next tilt. That's one of the reasons Pelchen was brought in. But it's going to take more than a couple of weeks. You can't build a list in a year or even two.

Yeah, we had a good era. We came close but unfortunately history will ultimately remember it as a missed opportunity.

The writing was on the wall last year but the loss to Gold Coast pretty much confirms it. Our best players are on the wrong side of 30 or very close to it, we have very little in the way of young talent coming through, and the jury is still out on whether Watters can coach at AFL level. The concerning thing is that we can still drop further; take out our senior players and we're left with not a lot.

Even though I think the next couple of years will be tough, football is cyclical. We will bounce back. It took us about 5 years to bounce back after success in the late 90's and I think it's probably reasonable to suggest it will take around another 5 years from now to build a new team and develop the next core group that can contest a premiership. I wish it would happen sooner but the reality is that we can't become a powerful unit overnight.

This.

Winnersonly;

I concur with other poster's thoughts - pull your head in pal and quit with the 'Ross Lyon would have won bs.' The dury is out on your hero Lyon. Blighty lost a few with the Cats and then went on to win 2 flags and his place has been cemented in footy folklore. Let's see how Freo goes come finals time?

In my opinion, Ross Lyon had the best chance in 40 years to win the ultimate and he failed...Get your head around that. That 09 finals series proves that RL just doesn't have the creativity to get over the line when it counts. He failed and no matter what the excuses are, the buck has to stop with the head coach.

[twirlyhair]

Yeah and we have WATTERS as our coach! DONT renew or extend his contract SAINTS the guy is a complet fraud !

The skys falling,the skys falling! Burn the wtch burn the witch! FFS

[busso mick]

Yeah and we have WATTERS as our coach! DONT renew or extend his contract SAINTS the guy is a complet fraud !

You couldn't even complete the word complete!

[stinger]

0-2 is where we are at. Can anyone remember the last time we started 0-2 to a season?

year 2000

[stinger]

I also think people are taking too much into the GC loss.

Of course the younger teams/blokes are going to be keen/fresh at the start of the year, they are ALWAYS the danger games

1997 we started the season 5 losses straight IIRC.

Doesn't matter much though, Freo are my favorites to win the flag this year anyway.

give all the Lyon lovers something to smile about.
fair dinkum if that turd wins a flag I will start going to soccer instead of footy!

i might join you...i certainly don't want to actually see that mob in a grannie unless they are losing big time....

[matrix]

we wont do a melb

[defacto]

well said. we need to be patient and make every draft/trade opportunity count for another at the flag in 3-4 years time. if we rush this we will end up like melbourne

[Stephen Theodore]

Yeah and we have WATTERS as our coach! DONT renew or extend his contract SAINTS the guy is a complet fraud !

Seems like you have a mate up here in QLD, in Andrew Hamilton of News Limited. He writes and I quote "growing dissent amongst the players at St Kilda with Scott Watters".

Where he picked this up from, I'm not sure. I have sent him off an email asking for his source, but arent holding my breath.

[Greg T]

Although we,ve had a disappointing start to the year , we need to rebuild quickly like Geelong did.
We,ve lost the run off half back thru Goodard and Gram , which I think a lot of fans don't realise .
We had some great years thru the Ross Lyon era and he extracted everything out of the side ,just falling short
Of the premiership.Thats what's its all about.His job was to get a flag,nearly did too.
So onwards and upwards from here,it's going to be painful,but were used to that.Just look at Melb FC.

[saintsRrising]

, we need to rebuild quickly like Geelong did.
.

???

The Cats have not rebuilt quickly at all. What they have done over a long period of time is to keep picking up good talent. The Saints biggest problem is that while our trades were mainly ok, the kids we picked up over a 5 year period were by and large poor.

Interesting too that the Cats who have traditionally stuck to kids, have been increasingly been broadening their net:
* Pods
* the Big O last year as a one year back up as they knew that they would be short on rucks for one year
* this year a swag of recycles in Caddy, Rivers, McIntosh


So we do not need to rebuild quickly like Geelong did, for in essence they have not rebuilt....we need to rebuild steadily like the Cats have not had to do as they have been better at renewing their list than us.

And by steadily, what I mean is that the club has to not try and win a flag net year, but to try and win a flag in 3-4 years, and to recruit with this in mind.

With the exception of perhaps TDL, this is what the Saints have been doing since Pelchen arrived and as I have been saying since then, this is the brief that Pelchen came to us with, and is what Lyon departed.

Hickey for example was not picked up for what he will be this year or net. He was picked up for what he may be in 3-4 years time. Ditto for Lee, and was also the reason why there was no panic to get a FB last year. Yes we needed one, but the sentiment seems to be that if the guy we want to be our FB in 2015+ was not available, then we would just wait another tear or two to get him.

My main concern to date is not the strategy which looks sound, but in an era where midfield dominates that we are very lean to date with new mids 2 years into our rebuild. Perhaps the plan is to try and buy in 2 A-Grade mids?

[bigcarl]

Andrew Hamilton of News Limited. He writes and I quote "growing dissent amongst the players at St Kilda with Scott Watters"

You got a link to that article Stephen?

[defacto]

Yeah and we have WATTERS as our coach! DONT renew or extend his contract SAINTS the guy is a complet fraud !

Seems like you have a mate up here in QLD, in Andrew Hamilton of News Limited. He writes and I quote "growing dissent amongst the players at St Kilda with Scott Watters".

Where he picked this up from, I'm not sure. I have sent him off an email asking for his source, but arent holding my breath.

what a prick. i hope the club holds him accountable

[Stephen Theodore]

Andrew Hamilton of News Limited. He writes and I quote "growing dissent amongst the players at St Kilda with Scott Watters"

You got a link to that article Stephen?

Sorry mate, am not that computer savvy, but is in Sunday Mail up here in QLD. Article about what a good fellow Guy McKenna is buying a golf buggy for his trainers to cart gear around in, then cuts to the aforementioned quote.

[saintly]

Personally I was expecting a much bigger loss. What I saw was our champs a notch down from their peak, and overall a big effort from the boys. More of a concern is the lack of out and out guns coming through. Clearly we need to develop some over the nest 3-4 years.

well, that was why Watters was trying to get Caddy

[defacto]

Personally I was expecting a much bigger loss. What I saw was our champs a notch down from their peak, and overall a big effort from the boys. More of a concern is the lack of out and out guns coming through. Clearly we need to develop some over the nest 3-4 years.

well, that was why Watters was trying to get Caddy

there will be plenty more players in the mold of caddy available over the next couple of years

[gringo]

, we need to rebuild quickly like Geelong did.
.

???

The Cats have not rebuilt quickly at all. What they have done over a long period of time is to keep picking up good talent. The Saints biggest problem is that while our trades were mainly ok, the kids we picked up over a 5 year period were by and large poor.

Interesting too that the Cats who have traditionally stuck to kids, have been increasingly been broadening their net:
* Pods
* the Big O last year as a one year back up as they knew that they would be short on rucks for one year
* this year a swag of recycles in Caddy, Rivers, McIntosh


So we do not need to rebuild quickly like Geelong did, for in essence they have not rebuilt....we need to rebuild steadily like the Cats have not had to do as they have been better at renewing their list than us.

And by steadily, what I mean is that the club has to not try and win a flag net year, but to try and win a flag in 3-4 years, and to recruit with this in mind.

With the exception of perhaps TDL, this is what the Saints have been doing since Pelchen arrived and as I have been saying since then, this is the brief that Pelchen came to us with, and is what Lyon departed.

Hickey for example was not picked up for what he will be this year or net. He was picked up for what he may be in 3-4 years time. Ditto for Lee, and was also the reason why there was no panic to get a FB last year. Yes we needed one, but the sentiment seems to be that if the guy we want to be our FB in 2015+ was not available, then we would just wait another tear or two to get him.

My main concern to date is not the strategy which looks sound, but in an era where midfield dominates that we are very lean to date with new mids 2 years into our rebuild. Perhaps the plan is to try and buy in 2 A-Grade mids?

what Thompson did better than Lyon was play kids. He was happy to have Shannon Byrne and even Stokes play VFL while getting games into kids during their successful period. One eye on the prize one on the future. Lyon was all or nothing.

[saintsRrising]

what Thompson did better than Lyon was play kids. He was happy to have Shannon Byrne and even Stokes play VFL while getting games into kids during their successful period. One eye on the prize one on the future. Lyon was all or nothing.

Thompson also had a good pool of kids to rotate through.


Lyon was playing guys like Eddy because our kids were mainly not too flash. Lyon knew this at the time. It is only now that some of supporters are coming to realise this. Which is the main reason he also favoured older players who had hard bodies who could follow a rigid gameplan. If Lyon has access to better players, he would have played them.

At Freo he is blending players in. Young players, recycled players.....

Pearce is his new "Lovett", but this time he is playing!

Lyon's focus at the Saints was to win a flag in the near term, and WTF would it not have been? A few more games given to our limited number of talented kids would have made very little difference to where we are at now in terms of Premiership Windows. The poor recruiting is the main issue. TL and TW have not thrived elsewhere.

Was he meant to have passed up the near term for now instead? If he had of then, would we have really have been in much better shape in terms of being genuine flag threat? I very much doubt it.

We had a crack...missed out. And now have to start building towards another rack.

[gringo]

what Thompson did better than Lyon was play kids. He was happy to have Shannon Byrne and even Stokes play VFL while getting games into kids during their successful period. One eye on the prize one on the future. Lyon was all or nothing.

Thompson also had a good pool of kids to rotate through.


Lyon was playing guys like Eddy because our kids were mainly not too flash. Lyon knew this at the time. It is only now that some of supporters are coming to realise this. Which is the main reason he also favoured older players who had hard bodies who could follow a rigid gameplan. If Lyon has access to better players, he would have played them.

At Freo he is blending players in. Young players, recycled players.....

Pearce is his new "Lovett".

We never gave much time to Ferguson, Cahill etc. there were a heap that just never got an opportunity to show what they might have been able to do. Eddy and Geary were the only two that seemed to be in favour and later Steven and Stanley but no real chances to get consistency.