Time to reassess

[plugger66]

Had us 9th to 12th with 9 to 12 wins. have us bottom 6 with 6 to 8 wins. Mids are to slow and young kids are further off it than I thought. Siposs is fair way off and Newnes kicks as well as my mum. Ben Jack and Armo seem better but none are close to A grade and the older guys are older.

[saintsRrising]

Yes disappointing at present. We lack cream. Our former stars are all down a notch or two, and not younguns are elite or looking likely to be this year.

However Tigers fan may be getting ahead of themselves as I do nor rate the Blues at all this year.
And tonight at full strength Tigers they struggled against us with Schneids only playing for a quarter, Fisher not match fit or practiced, Dempster looking fit but lacked touch, and others out as well.

[plugger66]

Yes disappointing at present. We lack cream. Our former stars are all down a notch or two, and not younguns are elite or looking likely to be this year.

However Tigers fan may be getting ahead of themselves as I do nor rate the Blues at all this year.
And tonight at full strength Tigers they struggled against us with Schneids only playing for a quarter, Fisher not match fit or practiced, Dempster looking fit but lacked touch, and others out as well.

Got to say I dont give a stuff about the tigers. We are the ones who are struggling.

[oh when the]

i reckon we lack a good leader on the ground who says
i will win this game for st kilda. roo used to have this but no longer
i dont know who there is.

[St Ick]

Agree with assessment of where we are at, with Tigers fans getting ahead of themselves and also Roos lack of leadership. That 50 was a disgrace that he gave away!

[Sobraz]

Agree with assessment of where we are at, with Tigers fans getting ahead of themselves and also Roos lack of leadership. That 50 was a disgrace that he gave away!

No disgrace.

Had his face shoved in the dirt.

[bergholt]

Had us 9th to 12th with 9 to 12 wins. have us bottom 6 with 6 to 8 wins. Mids are to slow and young kids are further off it than I thought. Siposs is fair way off and Newnes kicks as well as my mum. Ben Jack and Armo seem better but none are close to A grade and the older guys are older.

Yep, unfortunately most of the less experienced aren't yet taking the next step we all hoped for. It's probably directly related to the number of games they've played. These guys look pretty good but none are stars:

- Geary (74 games, 24 yo)
- Armitage (73 games, 24 yo)
- McEvoy (71 games, 23 yo)
- Steven (53 games, 22 yo)
- Roberton (39 games, 21 yo)

These guys look OK but aren't making much difference:

- Maister (35 games, 26 yo) - presenting well but he's never going to do more than be an honest competitor and kick a goal or two a game
- Stanley (23 games, 22 yo) - been played in three different positions so far this year, looks best in defence where we don't really need him
- Simpkin (21 games, 22 yo) - can't get into the side, has been injured

And then there's the rest of the kids:

- Dennis-Lane (20 games, 24 yo) - might be OK but unsure what his role is given our surfeit of small forwards
- Saad (18 games, 23 yo) - looks like a typical forward pocket, good for a goal or two each game but not doing much more than that - little forward pressure
- Siposs (18 games, 20 yo) - isn't getting into the game enough and is making poor decisions when he does
- Milera (17 games, 25 yo) - doing some great things and some horrible ones, the very definition of mercurial
- Hickey (13 games, 22 yo) - not bad but not a revelation - injured now?
- Newnes (9 games, 20 yo) - finding a reasonable amount of it but is making a lot of mistakes
- Ledger (6 games, 21 yo) - can't get into the side, didn't impress in preseason
- Dunell (5 games, 22 yo) - can't get into the side, looked very unimpressive in preseason
- Ross (1 game, 19 yo) - can't get into the side, looks like he has a lot of development still to do
- Lee (0 games, 22 yo) - will get an opportunity at some point but doesn't look to be the Messiah yet
- Wright (0 games, 19 yo) - will get an opportunity at some point, let's hope he takes it with both hands

It's a starkly different picture to what it was two weeks ago when we hadn't played yet!

They'll all improve as they get more games, so at some point this year we're just going to need to pump games into them. For example, no point dropping Newnes right now, I wouldn't think, let him learn in the senior side. Get Lee in for a few games. But without that it's just going to lengthen the interregnum.

[Kick-it-lace-out]

Don't lay the blame on just Scott Watters. Ross Lyon left this list in such poor shape, it will take years to turn it around. The fact that pelchin and waters have traded away early picks since taking over has just made the situation worse.
I still can't understand trading pick 12 for a mature age recruit (Tom Lee), and then not play him from round 1. Surely trading for a 22 year old that needs further development is one of the most bizarre examples of recruiting in a very long time.

[bigcarl]

I still can't understand trading pick 12 for a mature age recruit (Tom Lee), and then not play him from round 1. Surely trading for a 22 year old that needs further development is one of the most bizarre examples of recruiting in a very long time.

Some would say trading pick 12 for a potential A Grade ruckman in Hickey - when we already have one in McEvoy - was equally bizarre.

But let's see how it pans out. Personally I think both will be long-term players and both will make their mark before the season is over.

[mr six o'clock]

At this stage of the year , allot of the older players look like that " desire " is no longer there .

The younger ones need to step up or we might be headed for a top 5 draft pick this year !

[bobmurray]

If talent is a bit thin within the current Saints line up..

Concerning to think it's even thinner at Sandy...

[Teflon]

I thought pre season we've really increased depth..,

Looks thin now don't it

[Kernal75]

History shows us that players don't start impacting games intil they have played 60-80 games. Many drafted at the same time will not get to that mark before being delisted. If you take that into account then the likelihood is that we won't be truly competitive for at least another 4 years and that's assuming that all of our kids turn out to be good enough players to get to 60 games. We're in terrible shape and have been on the decline since 2010. Perhaps this year the cliff has finally arrived?!?

[saintsRrising]

. These guys look pretty good but none are stars:

- Geary (74 games, 24 yo)
-

If one player sums up where we are at it is Geary.

Tries very hard and does many things very well, but cant kick. Geary however at present is in our top group of players. In any team with genuine finals aspiration Geary would be a support player. That he may poll in the top 4 for our B&F shows hows thin our list is at the top at present.

I am not knocking Geary....it is just that for him to be one of our best means that we as a team are simply not that good.


2013 will need to be a year where I take my pleasure in focusing on watching developing players, rather than the scoreboard.

[matrix]

well your old girl must kick alright then plugger
not every kick he did last night was bad

saw some great passes

seemed to be his shorter stuff that wasnt as good
in my 22
stick with him coming off the back fllank

[maverick]

. These guys look pretty good but none are stars:

- Geary (74 games, 24 yo)
-

If one player sums up where we are at it is Geary.

Tries very hard and does many things very well, but cant kick. Geary however at present is in our top group of players. In any team with genuine finals aspiration Geary would be a support player. That he may poll in the top 4 for our B&F shows hows thin our list is at the top at present.

I am not knocking Geary....it is just that for him to be one of our best means that we as a team are simply not that good.


2013 will need to be a year where I take my pleasure in focusing on watching developing players, rather than the scoreboard.

Agree Geary's disposal is only ok at best.
With young players (games and age) we are going to see up and down performances, I am glad they persevered with newnes last night. He showed a fair bit for mine. Needs more body strength, which may help is kicking as he looks to be kicking it too hard on occasions.

We need to get games into wright, Ross, hickey, lee and ledger this year.
10 at least for each.

[Junction Oval]

As BobMurray said :

If talent is a bit thin within the current Saints line up..
Concerning to think it's even thinner at Sandy...

Reality and concensus seems to be setting in that we are truly in "re-build" mode and that player mistakes need to be accepted with the view of putting more game time/experience into our younger players. Change them around, play some of the younger guys. Focus now on the effort, rather than the end result.

Agree with Bob - our recruiting is once again a bit of a worry.

[dcstkfc]

I still can't understand trading pick 12 for a mature age recruit (Tom Lee), and then not play him from round 1. Surely trading for a 22 year old that needs further development is one of the most bizarre examples of recruiting in a very long time.

Some would say trading pick 12 for a potential A Grade ruckman in Hickey - when we already have one in McEvoy - was equally bizarre.

But let's see how it pans out. Personally I think both will be long-term players and both will make their mark before the season is over.

Both WTF at this point.

We need more midfield depth. Clearly!

[saintsRrising]

I thought pre season we've really increased depth..,

Looks thin now don't it

1/ I actually think we have increased our depth. Problem is twofold in 1/ that our ability at the top has decreased. BJ and Gram gone. ...and the older core all that one year older. ie Roo is still a very good player, but not as good as he was and 2/ that our depth is not evenly spread.

2/ The competition has not stood still. Most teams have improved. 2013 is a year where to just reach the same ladder position that, that you will need to be better. Suns and GWS are that one year older which for young teams is a big factor. Teams like the Tigers have bolstered their depth too, while their young core of stars now are that one yea older too.

3/ While a lot the recruiting talk last trade/draft period revolved around our lack of a true full back, what really is hurting us more is our lack of true midfielders, and emerging mids in particular. We are full to overflowing with flankers and small forwards. But genuine mids, we have very few options. Ross one of the few we have, had a disappointing pre-season. So with our depth we have lots of flankers, lots of small forwards, but not enough mids or key backs. Stanley has been drafted in as a key back as a result...and Fisher has as well rather than be a flanker (Fisher will be better than his Tigers game where he lacked match condition and practice).

[bergholt]

Reality and concensus seems to be setting in that we are truly in "re-build" mode and that player mistakes need to be accepted with the view of putting more game time/experience into our younger players. Change them around, play some of the younger guys. Focus now on the effort, rather than the end result.

It's actually good that we're coming to that realisation pretty quickly. Unfortunately we'll probably win next week, which will keep the wolf from the door, but if we lose in successive weeks to Essendon, Sydney, Collingwood and Carlton then it's definitely season over - we could easily be 1-6.

[PJ]

Had us 9th to 12th with 9 to 12 wins. have us bottom 6 with 6 to 8 wins. Mids are to slow and young kids are further off it than I thought. Siposs is fair way off and Newnes kicks as well as my mum. Ben Jack and Armo seem better but none are close to A grade and the older guys are older.

Seems a pretty accurate but bleak assessment. Perhaps finishing in the bottom with a high draft pick and going all out for a mid in trade week might help us get kick started. The worry is our kids in the middle - Ledger, Ross don't look anything special.

[saintsRrising]

With recruiting he seems to have a very long-term focus.

Reality and concensus seems to be setting in that we are truly in "re-build" mode and that player mistakes need to be accepted with the view of putting more game time/experience into our younger players. Change them around, play some of the younger guys. Focus now on the effort, rather than the end result.

It's actually good that we're coming to that realisation pretty quickly. Unfortunately we'll probably win next week, which will keep the wolf from the door, but if we lose in successive weeks to Essendon, Sydney, Collingwood and Carlton then it's definitely season over - we could easily be 1-6.

I think we have been in re-build mode since Pelchen arrived...and indeed that is why Pelchen was appointed, and quite probably why Lyon also left.

With recruiting he seems to have a very long-term focus:

* ie is content to wait till net year for a full back (which to me was a clear sign that success 2013 was not a key focus)...and that not much at all has been done about our lack of mids. Our lack of activity with gaining mids is my No 1 concern.

* Hickey was picked up for not what he was, but for what he may become. Ditto with Lee and White. It may be that he wants the talls first as they take longer to bloom.

However if our focus is really say 2015-17, then why are we not pumping more games into more kids?

[The Redeemer]

Had us 9th to 12th with 9 to 12 wins. have us bottom 6 with 6 to 8 wins. Mids are to slow and young kids are further off it than I thought. Siposs is fair way off and Newnes kicks as well as my mum. Ben Jack and Armo seem better but none are close to A grade and the older guys are older.

Agreed.

Anyone that thought Siposs was going to take the comp by storm playing like BJ was stupid ignorant of the fact the kid is 20 and has played 15 games.

Newnes showed good kicking skills against GWS last year and apart from that, lacks any real decency in his kicking. He doesn't hit basic targets and/or craps himself when he gets it

[The Redeemer]

Had us 9th to 12th with 9 to 12 wins. have us bottom 6 with 6 to 8 wins. Mids are to slow and young kids are further off it than I thought. Siposs is fair way off and Newnes kicks as well as my mum. Ben Jack and Armo seem better but none are close to A grade and the older guys are older.

Seems a pretty accurate but bleak assessment. Perhaps finishing in the bottom with a high draft pick and going all out for a mid in trade week might help us get kick started. The worry is our kids in the middle - Ledger, Ross don't look anything special.

So the kids don't look anything special because you haven't seen them?

Or do you know more than you let on?

Fair go, we can write them off after 20 games however when Ledger has played 4 and Ross 1...what do you expect?

[St Ick]

Agree with assessment of where we are at, with Tigers fans getting ahead of themselves and also Roos lack of leadership. That 50 was a disgrace that he gave away!

No disgrace.

Had his face shoved in the dirt.

Not sure how we can condone any player running over the mark to push them, let alone the captain of the footy club. I don't carexwhat happened to him before that, it was incredibly dumb and a shocking example of lack of leadership when the game needed a leader to stand up.