One interesting thing to come

[skeptic]

I think we'll learn a lot about Scott Watters this season.

Like many on here, whilst I didn't believe we would be major contenders this season, the loss to GC still stunned me.

One thing that jumped out at me though is that the coach's plan regarding our list is currently very unclear (to us). There are a lot of peculiarities RE where/how a number of players are being played, who's being recruited etc and I really hope the SW and the team are heading in a specific direction.

To name a few...

The already mentioned one is the rucks.
We have McEvoy who doesn't seem great at hit outs but is good around the ground.
We have Stanley who played more as a forward alternating in the ruck and was better at the taps, not as good around the ground, better as a forward but not as strong a mark.

These 2 in combination made sense, both on the ground, McEvoy does the bulk of the ruck and they alternate as needed.

The recruitment of Hickey though makes things more complicated.

At this point, he's a pure ruckman. Seems the best of all 3 at the taps but little more atm (though I think he may be the youngest). Doesn't have another position which makes selecting him kind of awkward though everyone would agree that we needed more ruck depth... possibly even a another junior ruck.

Now of course in the absence of a full back, Stanley goes to FB. Is he a temporary stop gap until we recruit a ready made... a see how he does and maybe we won't have to trade for a ruck... or a this is how we'll fit him in prospect?

The 3 make an odd combination.

Then you have Sam Gilbert, Farren Ray and Clint Jones :
I wanted to trade Sam him at the end of 2011... don't know what the club is doing with him... jack of all trades, master of none but clearly they're wanting to persevere with him for something.

Like all players near/over 30 CLint will cop it when he plays bad. Clint will get it worse then Milne, Dal, Hayes, Monty etc simply coz he has not been as good as them. Whilst he brings a great energy to the team... we potentially have Monty, Ray and Gilbert potentially playing as seasoned defensive mids + a few green kids that may want to go into that role. We have a lot of the same type of player in this team.

Ray was under utilised last season and despite a near trade stayed. Again what are we doing with him.

In my own opinion I'd say persevere with Monty and Ray as the more defense minded mids, and rotate developing mids in CJ's and Sam's spot until either a) one of the before mentioned demands his spot back or b) a youngster that may not be up to it now but develops into it.

The forwards in general... clearly there's some experimentation going on here.
Kosi is having a rest
Maister put his best foot forward and is having a red hot go
Lee will get a shot
And we have an abundance of small forwards fighting for 2-3 spots
Will be interesting to see who sinks and swims

I think there will be major movement at seasons end

[mad saint guy]

I also hope the coaches have a plan on how selection will pan out this year. Because if we aren't genuine finals contenders then there is simply no reason to play Jones, Kosi or Blake again, and kids should get preference over Ray, Maister, Gwilt, Gilbert and even TDL. Older fringe players don't have a place in a rebuilding side.

If we can't manage a couple of wins from our first five games then I'd hope all of Lee, Wright, Dunell, Ledger, Ross and Murdoch get an extended run in the seniors (at least 8 games each for the year) and that Webster, White, Curren, Saunders, Minchington and Ferguson at least get a taste. Of course Siposs, Stanley, Simpkin, Newnes, Saad, Hickey would be regulars all year.

I'm also a bit concerned on the massive focus on versatility. We're seeing most of our players used in various roles, but I'd much rather have a very good forward than a pretty good utility. As you said, Gilbert is being played all over the ground and not doing a very good job anywhere. I support giving Siposs a run at half back because his kicking would be valuable, but he doesn't look as comfortable or natural in defence as he does up forward. I hope Stanley has a set plan as well - I believe he could be a very good defender or a very good number one ruckman/occasional forward, but I don't see him excelling as a full-ground utility. We're starting to look a bit like the Australian Test team - full of all-rounders who aren't particularly good at anything. Simpkin seems to be behind other more versatile players in the pecking order, even though he is probably the second best negating tall defender at the club (behind Fisher).

[mr six o'clock]

Watters imo is rebuilding , he's just not going to come out and say we've got no chance for the next two years . I think the way he let gram go shows this , this year will see the end of kosi blakey , maybe lenny and milney as well . Cj gilbo and roo probably wont be that far behind .

[lloyd21]

Good points you raise Skeptic , my view is we are attempting to build depth on list in all areas . eg Hickey for Kosi Tdl for Milne / Saad (if he gets injured ) White / Riewoldt. Lee for the 3rd tall we never had but needed , Murdoch for defender role behind ball / Blake. Saunders / Jones. Roberton/ Winmar(theory being having a guy who has done development at another club effectively being your 40th player on the list.Playing Stanley in defence is a two fold thing solves a hole in defensive height and allows his body to develop without being bashed around and the confidence of marking the ball.The major hole in stkilda is midfield think they will draft midfield and target free agency defenders / or preseason draft a kid that has done time in WFL SANFl VFl.

[Teflon]

Don't know why TDL was recruited

[dragit]

Some good questions skeptic...

I guess it must be hard for a new coach to just flick the rebuild switch, you would still be torn about wanting to win games over getting experience into kids. I think CJ and Kosi only stayed on the list because of contract clauses, but there is clearly a strong temptation to play CJ as he does offer more physically and aerobically than any young guys.

Unless Kosi is kicking big bags of goals in the 2's, I would be disappointed to see him played in front of Lee. If Kosi comes back this week, I will eat my hat.

Blake was used exactly as he should be last week, when 3 other tall defenders were out injured, he like CJ did a pretty good job but should make way if we regain a few...

With Milne & Saad having off nights, we were desperate for more help up forward, will Stanley or Siposs return forward this week? Think we have to have a third 'dangerous' marking forward, otherwise roo will be swamped at every contest.

Gilbert is an interesting player, he got a bit of a bashing on here this week, but I thought he was pretty good... Can't see him being dropped, his attack & intensity are first class, he'd be a ripping medium forward if he could kick straight.

The Hickey/TDL combo was a genuine failure last week, don't think well see either of them this week, will we see your mate Scheids?

[defacto]

Watters imo is rebuilding , he's just not going to come out and say we've got no chance for the next two years . I think the way he let gram go shows this , this year will see the end of kosi blakey , maybe lenny and milney as well . Cj gilbo and roo probably wont be that far behind .

+1 seen it before. watters/pelchen and co arent saying it but the actions speak louder than words.

whilst they will want to win. their priority seems to be working out the future. seeing where players can play, developing the youth. rebuilding the list.

once we get the list sorted and the kids developed, you will really see how good watters can be.

[Teflon]

Watters imo is rebuilding , he's just not going to come out and say we've got no chance for the next two years . I think the way he let gram go shows this , this year will see the end of kosi blakey , maybe lenny and milney as well . Cj gilbo and roo probably wont be that far behind .

+1 seen it before. watters/pelchen and co arent saying it but the actions speak louder than words.

whilst they will want to win. their priority seems to be working out the future. seeing where players can play, developing the youth. rebuilding the list.

once we get the list sorted and the kids developed, you will really see how good watters can be.

ahh..well that'll explain away losses like the GC easily then...its all part of the plan!

[matrix]

[WellardSaint]

Some very good comments coming thru here.
Seems like Watters & co arent sure whether to rebuild or not.
If they play lots of kids who have more fitness & better recovery than the older ones, we lose many games but the kids will show flashes of promise.
There is the suggestion that we will finish well down the ladder, I think maybe leave some of the older ones in the 2s and see how the kids go.
We still have a good group of NDS, Monty, Hayes, etc who could get us over the line in close ones and reduce blowouts like Rd4 will be.

[saintspremiers]

Don't know why TDL was recruited

We needed a new Whipping Boy after Gram left.

[plugger66]

Don't know why TDL was recruited

We needed a new Whipping Boy after Gram left.

We kept Kosi for that.

[borderbarry]

If Kosi were to play this week it would be in the FP and to spell Ben in the ruck, which I cant see Tom Lee doing at this stage.

[gringo]

We have an on the hop rebuild coming through and unlike most teams we lack the middle aged core group so are patching up. I see a kind of like for like happening too. Milne will be replaced by Saad or another small forward. Roo-Lee, Kosi -White, Goddard- Siposs, Newnes- dal, Joey- Ledge etc. I guess when you are rebuilding on the hop you need to feed one out one in to stay competitive.

[FQF]

We have an on the hop rebuild coming through and unlike most teams we lack the middle aged core group so are patching up. I see a kind of like for like happening too. Milne will be replaced by Saad or another small forward. Roo-Lee, Kosi -White, Goddard- Siposs, Newnes- dal, Joey- Ledge etc. I guess when you are rebuilding on the hop you need to feed one out one in to stay competitive.

I'm not sure there is a good reason to find direct replacements for each of our players, especially when we are trying to base our future team on a team that didn't win anything?

Can you find in our team a direct counterpart in Geelong?

Not really.

I think we need to build a new team from scratch and not try to find a new Roo, new Kosi, new Goddard etc. etc.

As Watters said: he wants Arryn Siposs to be the next Arryn Siposs.

[Saint Bev]

I have a few contenders for the new "whipping boy" contenders, but not quite ready to go public get, in fear of getting whipped myself. However, I can't for the life of me understand why CJ wasn't on Ablett last week. Has always played well on him in the past.

[mightysainters]

Scott Watters coming into this season i had an extremely high opinion of.

Unfortunately, after one game (yes i know it's only one game) his credibility has dissipated to an extent in my eyes.

His coaching moves last week were reprehensible at times.

The glaring error was Gilbert, once i saw him go to Ablett in the last quarter you just knew Ablett was going to dominate and outsmart his direct opponent. Gilbert has glaring deficiencies - his kicking, accountability, decision making and overall football brain. Sure he can run fast at time and intercept a mark or two but he is definitely in the lower quartile for 'tagging' and 'player smarts'. As this was unravelling Watters still didn't make a move to change him and as we saw it was all a matter of time until the damage was done and then CJ was moved onto him.

Watters seemed somewhat restrained last week and very reactionary. Although, after saying that we do all make mistakes and to be fair Watters is still in a steep learning curve as a head coach. Reportedly a great footy brain, and i'm sure he does hold himself (as well as the players) accountable for that abysmal display last week.

This week is our week of redemption, tigers and their supporters flying high after a win over the team they haven't beaten in quite some time. It has the markings of a typical tiger loss IMO but if we play like we did last week it remains to be seen. A very interesting week in deed.

[elvis lives]

the resruitment of TDL is an absolute mystery. Not sure how many small, light, small engine, mercurial fwd's a team can carry but i would have thought 4 was absolutely plenty (Milne, Saad, Milera and Scheider (not so light)). it was clear to most, well at least me, that last year we were lacking in clearance winning midfielders to include in an adequate rotation roster. Why TDL got the nod ahead of the best ball winning midfielder not currently on an AFL list (for example Cockie) is an absolute mystery.

Hickey I can understand. When McEvoy got injured last year we were severely limited in options to replace him without disrupting the rest of the team. That Blake is still used as a semi-effective replacement beggars belief but you would think his time is almost up... surely. I think Stanley is wasted as a full time ruck and in a year or two could be one of the best ruck/fwds or key defenders going around.

[FQF]

the resruitment of TDL is an absolute mystery. Not sure how many small, light, small engine, mercurial fwd's a team can carry but i would have thought 4 was absolutely plenty (Milne, Saad, Milera and Scheider (not so light)). it was clear to most, well at least me, that last year we were lacking in clearance winning midfielders to include in an adequate rotation roster. Why TDL got the nod ahead of the best ball winning midfielder not currently on an AFL list (for example Cockie) is an absolute mystery.

Hickey I can understand. When McEvoy got injured last year we were severely limited in options to replace him without disrupting the rest of the team. That Blake is still used as a semi-effective replacement beggars belief but you would think his time is almost up... surely. I think Stanley is wasted as a full time ruck and in a year or two could be one of the best ruck/fwds or key defenders going around.

Milne and Schneider won't be around much longer, both Saad and Milera are still somewhat unproven, and I'm not sure Milera will remain a small forward in the future. That could leave us with just Saad as a small forward.

It especially doesn't bother me because we got him for nothing.

[bergholt]

The glaring error was Gilbert, once i saw him go to Ablett in the last quarter you just knew Ablett was going to dominate and outsmart his direct opponent.

Gilbert was on Ablett for most of the second and third quarters and did a pretty good job, so why was it such a bad matchup?

[stinger]

The glaring error was Gilbert, once i saw him go to Ablett in the last quarter you just knew Ablett was going to dominate and outsmart his direct opponent.

Gilbert was on Ablett for most of the second and third quarters and did a pretty good job, so why was it such a bad matchup?

arrh...... did you watch the last quarter albert....

[bergholt]

The glaring error was Gilbert, once i saw him go to Ablett in the last quarter you just knew Ablett was going to dominate and outsmart his direct opponent.

Gilbert was on Ablett for most of the second and third quarters and did a pretty good job, so why was it such a bad matchup?[/quote

arrh...... did you watch the last quarter albert....

So Watters should have predicted that despite Gilbert doing a reasonable job for half a game, Ablett was going to go nuts in the last quarter? What if Jones had moved onto him and then Bennell had kicked three - would you have said he should have predicted that as well?

[BigMart]

Gilbert went on to Ablett after HT

Jack Steven had him in the first, Armo and Lenny in the second.... Gilbo had a forgetful half on Gazza

[bergholt]

Gilbert went on to Ablett after HT

Jack Steven had him in the first, Armo and Lenny in the second.... Gilbo had a forgetful half on Gazza

I just watched the second quarter again and saw Gilbo next to Ablett at the bounce a couple of times. That's as much as I could tell but it sure looked like Gilbo had him.

[bigred]

I'm so sick of players that can't kick. Absolute liability.