Thoughts on Tommy Walsh by a Sydney Fan

[thejiggingsaint]

Without resurrecting the Luke Ball affair. This issue (player leaves St Kilda under acrimonious circumstances) WILL happen again (as it will to EVERY club) I wanted Ball, Goddard, Hall, Lockett, Everitt, and so many others to remain with the club; they didn't. Did I feel upset at the time of their departure? a wee bit, yes. Did I agonise about their decisions? Not at all! The club goes on....ask Geelong when young Ablett left 'em! Its an interesting hypothetical exercise to speculate what may have been, but I prefer to look forward with excitement to the great young prospects we have at the club right now

[remboy]

Without resurrecting the Luke Ball affair. This issue (player leaves St Kilda under acrimonious circumstances) WILL happen again (as it will to EVERY club) I wanted Ball, Goddard, Hall, Lockett, Everitt, and so many others to remain with the club; they didn't. Did I feel upset at the time of their departure? a wee bit, yes. Did I agonise about their decisions? Not at all! The club goes on....ask Geelong when young Ablett left 'em! Its an interesting hypothetical exercise to speculate what may have been, but I prefer to look forward with excitement to the great young prospects we have at the club right now

I'm with you Jigger. I'd rather focus on the players who are playing for us rather than those who aren't.

[saintsRrising]

Anyway, Watters obviously saw something in Walsh because he tried so hard to keep him.

I think it was mainly the physical profile of our list at the time where we lacked solid physically mature players of his height and moreso with Zac going. With Tommy he had all the physical requirements, and so the main question was good he "learn" the game. After a number of years playing he still looks lost at times.

Apart from some easy short term money, it turns out to be the worst move Walsh could have made..

In hindsight I think Tommy has done "an Ackland" where he has secured a three year deal earning more than he is worth, where if both had stayed they probably would have been giving the chop after a further 12 months.

Tommy gets 3 years of very good money, for what compared to a normal job is part time hours. Meanwhile his home country is a financial basket -case and so I would not feel sorry for Tommy.

Football-wise he has the physical attributes, and many of the skills required to make an AFL footballer. What he has not acquired though is the ability to "read" the play and to "know" where to be. This at AFL level is what is finding him out. If he had stayed maybe, just maybe he could have had a crack at being a tall defender for us. But that lack of ability to read the play would probably have had good forwards turning him inside out.


Being athletically gifted is a big advantage at AFL level. However it is not enough.

Great athletes who are poor footballers do not tend to make it. Whereas great footballers who are poor athletically still can (though aerobically these days unlike in yesteryears if you cannot run a lot you are gone due to the requirements of team football plays).

[thejiggingsaint]

GOOD SENSIBLE POST SR!!!!!

[remboy]

Being athletically gifted is a big advantage at AFL level. However it is not enough.

Great athletes who are poor footballers do not tend to make it. Whereas great footballers who are poor athletically still can (though aerobically these days unlike in yesterdays if you cannot run a lot you are gone due to the requirements of team football plays).

I think a lot of clubs fall in love with "athletes" and start thinking 'imagine if we teach him how to play AFL'. Israel Folau is a prime example. The game is so fast you don't have time to think. You need to be able to act instinctively, which means you have to know the game.
It's a big enough risk drafting guys like Rhys Stanley and Spencer White, who are fantastic athletes but have some development to do, and they have come up through junior footy.

[magnifisaint]

f*** Tommy Walsh

[thejiggingsaint]

a wee bit harsh (IMHO)

[joffaboy]

JB should realise that the only people that built TW up was the media, Ricky Nixon and our club.

Revisionist claptrap. You and a bunch of whining pussies lambasted Lyon for not playing Walsh.

Well where is the similiar critisisisms of Longmire?

We all remember the fanfare, the chasing down and courting this "great white hope"/ super athlete that was promised to us all., our club St Kilda (including RL) not only bought into all this hype and experiment (another one of RL's failed experiments - on top of the recycled players, and Lovett), they were the instigators.

Again your obsession with Lyon. You recruit players like Walsh on hope not expectation. When that hope becomes lost, you dont play him - simple.

However you and a bunch of other know nothings used his non selection to attack Lyon. You lot made a straw man argument and some even argued that lyon was deliberately harming the team by not playing him.

it was all a lyon plt to wreck the Saints as Walsh was surely up to it, because as you said above gullible fools like you fell for the hype, instead of actually going to watch him play.

We were told that he equated to a first round pick.

And you believed it - lol

We were all disappointed on this site that we didn't obviously get what we were promised.. but we weren't delusional.

yes you were - completely fooled because many of you are gullible and lazy, and wouldn't go and have a look yourself. You particularily attacked Lyon for playing other players ahead of him.

Well lyon has been proven correct, and whining know nothings like you and scollop have been proven totally and utterly wrong.

You should apologies for your attacks on Lyons integrity when he was the STKFC coach. Obviously knows more about football in a milliseconfd that you will in a lifetime.

Our club, RL, the media, Ricky Nixon, the Swans ..and last but not least JB on the other hand - definitely.

You were the deluded goose who was SCREAMING to gift a non performer a game and carried on like a baby when Lyon wouldn't give him one.

you were fooled by hype on a recruit (how old are you BTW?) you used this foolishness to attack Lyon with your dumb theories, and now time have PROVEN Lyons quite correct decesions correct on Walsh, you are not big enough to admit you were totally and hopelessly WRONG.

You are a like a child blaming everyone else, the club, Nixon, "the medja" and you REFUSE to take responsibility for your accusations and foolishness.

Heres a hint, before you go off half cocked about something (oh thats right you have with your ridiculous Guerra - a case study thread ) you might want to actually do your own research and not lazily rely on second hand reports from self interested parties.

Really poor and unthinking on your part - another F- for you and your poor and confused efforts.

Remember you are conversing with grown ups on this forum.

[joffaboy]

One game after a 6 goal haul - to look at him, why not?
We might find that he could have provided us with some forward chase and pressure, which Kosi was not capable of providing, for instance?
Anyway, what was the point of TL being tried 6 times and failing .. why did it take so long before the penny finally dropped with him?
Why wasn't RL taken to task on that?

He was by many. Most said why doesnt he give TL more chances. So how can RL be right in this case. TL was given to many chances in your opinion and not enough in others minds.

Why isnt Longmire giving TW many chances? have you thought coaches have a little more idea than us and can see if a player is ready or not?

That's why we have opinions... and that's fine.
.. but let's not take other peoples' opinions and distort them and overstate them and then throw them back in an unrecognisable state like JB does.. so he can amuse himself at other peoples' expense.

More revisionist garbage. You screamed like a stuck pig when Lyon wouldn't play your hero

Now you have been found out you are quirming like a toad.

As markp said - you hang on to that delusion that Lyon killed his career. You seem clueless enough to actually believe it.

[samuraisaint]

I don't "wish the worst" for him, he chose to go, the consequences of that decision are for Walsh himself to consider at some future stage. All history now as far as I'm concerned.

I do, I most certainly do. St Kilda brought him over and set him up. He leaves because Taidgh Kennelly gets in his ear.
He embarrassed himself in his senior games last year. Embarrasing to watch

[skeptic]

There seems to be separate issues here...

I don't think anybody felt that we did badly out of that trade. We were always clear winners in that regard... though myself personally I was disappointed that he left.

And that's the major issue here. It's the fact that this guy who WE brought in, were rapt to get and invested in was happy to walk out on us.

Lets be really clear here... tthe club WANTED him to stay. As BM pointed out, Lynch too. From our POV they were players we wanted to keep but they couldn't get out of here fast enough.

Focusing on TW... put whatever spin on it you want but it just doesn't make sense to not play a developing key forward who is playing well in the ressies in a team that was short on KP forwards.

The revisionist stuff in this thread is that ppl criticised RL for not playing the messiah. Nobody thought TW was the next Loewe. A lot of ppl joked about it and the mock hype spread, and many of us damn well hoped we'd unearthed a player that would be a star but nobody actually thought he was going to debut, kick 9 goals VS Geelong and 100 in his next season. Heck even the Swans didn't think that. That's just silly.
And I laugh at plugger's suggestions that the coach knew he was walking or thought he wasn't good enough... if I posted that the response would be "how do you know what the coach thinks, did you ask him"

The issue in the whole TW saga is how we managed/developed him and why he walked out on us. That's what RL gets criticised for... at least he should. Not what JB posted which if true is just plain silly

[gringo]

Being athletically gifted is a big advantage at AFL level. However it is not enough.

Great athletes who are poor footballers do not tend to make it. Whereas great footballers who are poor athletically still can (though aerobically these days unlike in yesterdays if you cannot run a lot you are gone due to the requirements of team football plays).

I think a lot of clubs fall in love with "athletes" and start thinking 'imagine if we teach him how to play AFL'. Israel Folau is a prime example. The game is so fast you don't have time to think. You need to be able to act instinctively, which means you have to know the game.
It's a big enough risk drafting guys like Rhys Stanley and Spencer White, who are fantastic athletes but have some development to do, and they have come up through junior footy.

Tom Williams at the dogs is another one who just can't get the subtleties. Rucks can bluff it but anyone who needs nuance in their game will always struggle to be elite.

[magnifisaint]

a wee bit harsh (IMHO)

I don't give a s*** about him

[Wrote for Luck]

I don't "wish the worst" for him, he chose to go, the consequences of that decision are for Walsh himself to consider at some future stage. All history now as far as I'm concerned.

I do, I most certainly do. St Kilda brought him over and set him up. He leaves because Taidgh Kennelly gets in his ear.
He embarrassed himself in his senior games last year. Embarrasing to watch

exactly! Strength Through Loyalty. F@ck Tommy Walsh

[plugger66]

There seems to be separate issues here...

I don't think anybody felt that we did badly out of that trade. We were always clear winners in that regard... though myself personally I was disappointed that he left.

And that's the major issue here. It's the fact that this guy who WE brought in, were rapt to get and invested in was happy to walk out on us.

Lets be really clear here... tthe club WANTED him to stay. As BM pointed out, Lynch too. From our POV they were players we wanted to keep but they couldn't get out of here fast enough.

Focusing on TW... put whatever spin on it you want but it just doesn't make sense to not play a developing key forward who is playing well in the ressies in a team that was short on KP forwards.

The revisionist stuff in this thread is that ppl criticised RL for not playing the messiah. Nobody thought TW was the next Loewe. A lot of ppl joked about it and the mock hype spread, and many of us damn well hoped we'd unearthed a player that would be a star but nobody actually thought he was going to debut, kick 9 goals VS Geelong and 100 in his next season. Heck even the Swans didn't think that. That's just silly.
And I laugh at plugger's suggestions that the coach knew he was walking or thought he wasn't good enough... if I posted that the response would be "how do you know what the coach thinks, did you ask him"

The issue in the whole TW saga is how we managed/developed him and why he walked out on us. That's what RL gets criticised for... at least he should. Not what JB posted which if true is just plain silly

Skeptic you obviously lack common sense. No I didnt ask RL why he wasn't played. I put 2 and 2 together and got 4 and came it with the coach thought he wasnt good enough. Very poor example if you are trying to use that when i say the same thing but the difference is when I say it it is logical. By the way when did i ever mention he didnt play him because he was walking. Please dont lie to back up a poor argument. Just show me where I said it or you are just a plain liar.

And you and others still dont get it. TW was probably only playing well enough to play between 0 and 2 games anyway. He played 0. Wow if he had played 2 that would have made RL a good coach or maybe in peoples minds who dont rate RL a bad coach for playing a dud. Those same people will then hope no one goes through their threads and sees that those people thought TW was a star.

And if we really wanted to keep TW and TL then it would have been a huge mistake. Maybe we should have tried to keep Nick Heyne as well. I always here our young guys werent given a chance but the 3 who were given second chances have struggled. The rest that were delisted werent even rated good enough to play AFL again. I think you could safely say our drafting for a few years now has been poor.

[markp]

I'd say we tried and wanted to keep him on our terms and at the value we put on him (as with bj), but he got a better offer and took it.

[samoht]

JB lost me at "distort", as usual.
I've decided that his hyperbolic posts will be given the wide berth or the short shrift they deserve in future (something like Stinger's short and sharp retorts, a one liner) ... or a simple "bleh".
It's a waste of time trying to talk sense into a lost cause... he brings nothing to the discussions and keeps regurgitating and then spewing out the same old "distorted" garbage.
I'm keeping well clear of the spew next time.

[St Ick]

Basically the Swans did do us what they did to Geelong with Mumford and Crows (Lions and Suns moreso) with Tippett. At the time I didn't care and couldn't believe what the fuss on here was about.

BUT, I was furious on here that we let Lynch go (who is very much fringe at Adelaide still), Lynch then turned into Newnes who is my favourite player already despite his short career thus far. Funny how things work out.

[WinnersOnly]

For me it's simple Sydney contine to try to turn him into a forward for which he is not suited. He would be much more sucessful as a lock down key defender - a position the Saints needed him to fill !

[samoht]

TW, TL, RL, BJ, LB are all irrelevant to St Kilda's future.
Bleh!

[gringo]

For me it's simple Sydney contine to try to turn him into a forward for which he is not suited. He would be much more sucessful as a lock down key defender - a position the Saints needed him to fill !

When I watched him at Sandy the first time I couldn't understand what the fuss was about -he played as a defender and wasn't awful but not special, Will Johnson looked a much more talented player in that game. I lost the hype when i saw that. Same with Ledger when everyone was talking him up and saying he should be picked- I watched him and realised only about 20% of his kicks hit a target.

[joffaboy]

JB lost me at "distort", as usual.
I've decided that his hyperbolic posts will be given the wide berth or the short shrift they deserve in future (something like Stinger's short and sharp retorts, a one liner) ... or a simple "bleh".
It's a waste of time trying to talk sense into a lost cause... he brings nothing to the discussions and keeps regurgitating and then spewing out the same old "distorted" garbage.
I'm keeping well clear of the spew next time.

So instead of attacking me, why not address my statements that you were instrumental on here in bagging out Lyon because he wouldn't play Walsh.

Run away when you are found out. You WILL NOT address what i have posted. Pathetic and typical of somebody who makes loud proclimations pretending they know more about a football player than coaches, and then when challenged resorts to childish responses like "well we were told he was good"

Found out and exposed. You knew nothing of why Walsh wasn't being played but attacked Lyon mercilessly. Well Lyon has been vindicated and you have made a fool of yourself once again.

As markp posted - your argument is based on the fact that Walsh should have been gifted one game and he would have suddenly been some type of world beater.

And you have the temerity to call others deluded.

Very sad when you are exposed as a fraud and totally wrong and you still cant admit it.

On Walsh - it was a real shame. Great physical attributes but never seemed to be able to understand positioning or read the game. Would have loved him to succeed at the Saints, but wasn't to be.

Didn't get a game and didn't deserve one, even though ignorant opinion DEMANDED he get one.

[joffaboy]

Those same people will then hope no one goes through their threads and sees that those people thought TW was a star.

SNAP!!!!!!!!

[samoht]

JB lost me at "distort", as usual.
I've decided that his hyperbolic posts will be given the wide berth or the short shrift they deserve in future (something like Stinger's short and sharp retorts, a one liner) ... or a simple "bleh".
It's a waste of time trying to talk sense into a lost cause... he brings nothing to the discussions and keeps regurgitating and then spewing out the same old "distorted" garbage.
I'm keeping well clear of the spew next time.

So instead of attacking me, why not address my statements that you were instrumental on here in bagging out Lyon because he wouldn't play Walsh.

Run away when you are found out. You WILL NOT address what i have posted. Pathetic and typical of somebody who makes loud proclimations pretending they know more about a football player than coaches, and then when challenged resorts to childish responses like "well we were told he was good"

Found out and exposed. You knew nothing of why Walsh wasn't being played but attacked Lyon mercilessly. Well Lyon has been vindicated and you have made a fool of yourself once again.

As markp posted - your argument is based on the fact that Walsh should have been gifted one game and he would have suddenly been some type of world beater.

And you have the temerity to call others deluded.

Very sad when you are exposed as a fraud and totally wrong and you still cant admit it.

On Walsh - it was a real shame. Great physical attributes but never seemed to be able to understand positioning or read the game. Would have loved him to succeed at the Saints, but wasn't to be.

Didn't get a game and didn't deserve one, even though ignorant opinion DEMANDED he get one.

bleh!
I also slagged RL(your "runaway" hero) on a lot of other things.

[joffaboy]

JB lost me at "distort", as usual.
I've decided that his hyperbolic posts will be given the wide berth or the short shrift they deserve in future (something like Stinger's short and sharp retorts, a one liner) ... or a simple "bleh".
It's a waste of time trying to talk sense into a lost cause... he brings nothing to the discussions and keeps regurgitating and then spewing out the same old "distorted" garbage.
I'm keeping well clear of the spew next time.

So instead of attacking me, why not address my statements that you were instrumental on here in bagging out Lyon because he wouldn't play Walsh.

Run away when you are found out. You WILL NOT address what i have posted. Pathetic and typical of somebody who makes loud proclimations pretending they know more about a football player than coaches, and then when challenged resorts to childish responses like "well we were told he was good"

Found out and exposed. You knew nothing of why Walsh wasn't being played but attacked Lyon mercilessly. Well Lyon has been vindicated and you have made a fool of yourself once again.

As markp posted - your argument is based on the fact that Walsh should have been gifted one game and he would have suddenly been some type of world beater.

And you have the temerity to call others deluded.

Very sad when you are exposed as a fraud and totally wrong and you still cant admit it.

On Walsh - it was a real shame. Great physical attributes but never seemed to be able to understand positioning or read the game. Would have loved him to succeed at the Saints, but wasn't to be.

Didn't get a game and didn't deserve one, even though ignorant opinion DEMANDED he get one.

You like to waste your time I see ... bleh!

lol - I think anybody reading this thread will notice how you ran away. Made a fool of yourself.

Really funny. I'll this thread stand on its merits and how you didn't have the balls to respond to your ignornace and delusions about Tommy Walsh.

See ya backward Thomas. Look forward to your next "in depth" case study.