Cue Plugger to defend the AFL again.....

[saintspremiers]

http://m.watoday.com.au/afl/afl-news/th ... 2fc4x.html

[SaintPav]

A bit of an indictment that we are grouped with that lot and that we are still seen as a struggling club. I'm not saying it's not true but we should be aiming to do a lot better as the club has heaps going for it.

[plugger66]

Confusing SP. This is about AFL clubs not the AFL.

[bigcarl]

A bit of an indictment that we are grouped with that lot and that we are still seen as a struggling club.

Nothing that a few decades of sustained success and a coupla premierships won't fix.

[Life Long Saint]

A bit of an indictment that we are grouped with that lot and that we are still seen as a struggling club.

Nothing that a few decades of sustained success and a coupla premierships won't fix.

Didn't work for North.

[Eastern]

So, is Eddie looking at heading up some sort of Breakaway Group where he can start up his own "Super League"? Eight clubs (Coll, Carl, Ess, Haw, Rich, Adel, WCE, Freo) who play each other 3 times a season would add up to a fair fixture. Hold On, level playing field, Interstate travel for Collingwood, Eddie would NEVER agree to that !!

[3rd generation saint]

Interesting to note out of that super 8 group that Brisbane and Sydney have won more premierships than any of them since the turn of the century.

[bigcarl]

A bit of an indictment that we are grouped with that lot and that we are still seen as a struggling club.

Nothing that a few decades of sustained success and a coupla premierships won't fix.

Didn't work for North.

It worked for Hawthorn.

North are a lost cause and should have moved to the Gold Coast. They've never had a following.

Ours isn't bad. If we were going to move from Moorabbin, though, why to the back blocks of Seaford? Should have been slap bang in the middle of Frankston ... a large city.

[BigMart]

We're we going to compulsory acquire the land from residents BC??

The footy oval is tiny, and expensive to redevelop....

There was land at Seaford..... Cheaper to develop

Leaving Moorabbin was a strange choice.... As was leaving Tassie..... Not combining with Sandy straight away?? ..... Leaving Casy after they developed a brand new facility, in an area with a booming population.... After moving to Frankston, not pushing harder to strengthen ties in the peninsula by aligning with the VFL and MPNFL?

Not having a strong relationship with aligned club?

[bigcarl]

The footy oval is tiny, and expensive to redevelop....

There was land at Seaford..... Cheaper to develop

I know all that, but think of the benefits in terms of visibility and profile of being whack in the middle of a large city, a la Geelong. Local businesses would be queuing up to get on board.

Instead we are hidden out the back of Kananook Creek.

Any case, no use bitching about it. It's too late baby.

[Cairnsman]

If this gathering took place then the powerbrokers at the clubs that weren't invited should hold their own meeting and discuss the forming of a competing alliance.

[Cairnsman]

The footy oval is tiny, and expensive to redevelop....

There was land at Seaford..... Cheaper to develop

I know all that, but think of the benefits in terms of visibility and profile of being whack in the middle of a large city, a la Geelong. Local businesses would be queuing up to get on board.

Instead we are hidden out the back of Kananook Creek.

Any case, no use bitching about it. It's too late baby.

Would it make a difference if the ground at Seaford was capable of holding a match for premiership points? I think it would.

[plugger66]

The footy oval is tiny, and expensive to redevelop....

There was land at Seaford..... Cheaper to develop

I know all that, but think of the benefits in terms of visibility and profile of being whack in the middle of a large city, a la Geelong. Local businesses would be queuing up to get on board.

Instead we are hidden out the back of Kananook Creek.

Any case, no use bitching about it. It's too late baby.

Would it make a difference if the ground at Seaford was capable of holding a match for premiership points? I think it would.

Why? The AFL are never going to build another ground. I still dont see why it matters where you train. They are nearly all closed sessions anyway and the days of big crowds going to training are pretty much over.

[BigMart]

Our home ground is Etihad Stadium

Has been since 2000.

[Cairnsman]

I know all that, but think of the benefits in terms of visibility and profile of being whack in the middle of a large city, a la Geelong. Local businesses would be queuing up to get on board.

Instead we are hidden out the back of Kananook Creek.

Any case, no use bitching about it. It's too late baby.

Would it make a difference if the ground at Seaford was capable of holding a match for premiership points? I think it would.

Why? The AFL are never going to build another ground. I still dont see why it matters where you train. They are nearly all closed sessions anyway and the days of big crowds going to training are pretty much over.

I'm not thinking about training so much. The south east is only going to grow and if the numbers justify it you could probably justify another ground. Population growth is inevitable and another playing ground probably is too one day. We could be to the south east what Geelong is to the south west.

[Dis Believer]

All the carry on about where we train is pissing around the edges.

The crux of the matter is that the AFL exists to administer the competition on behalf of the clubs. Instead it has morphed into the owner of the game, dictating to the clubs. When clubs were lurching into shocking financial condition the AFL were locking in big sponsorships and dictating that clubs could not take on conflicting sponsors. They were adding teams to a FIXture that gradually became more uneven and driven solely by marketing, further locking some teams into a position that made it more difficult to secure sponsors. Then they locked some teams into ground deals that raped them. They have ensured that the very things that are causing difficulties for some teams have become systemic. And while all of this goes on, the AFL itself was the most rapidly growing bureaucracy in the competition. While more clubs were knocking on the door for handouts, the AFL admin were moving into bigger and better digs!!

Make no mistake, expecially our resident AFL apologist, more and more of the money coming into the game has gradually moved to the AFL coffers instead of the clubs accounts. The irony is that the AFL is supposed to BE the clubs. It then, in all its arrogance, dictates to those clubs that it has condemned by its actions to perpetual begging, that they need to lift their game.

Dimwit is a disgrace. The game is so entrenched in the DNA of the population of this country that it will survive a nuclear war, so any claims that he is a great administrater are crap. He has grown fat on the back of the game, and instead of building a strong competition, he has move to entrench a setup that is dependent on the biggest clubs getting the best draw and timeslots, that is all he has. There has been no innovation, no creativity. He has built his success on the strength of a few, with everyone else playing bit parts, a lot like how our list functioned under Ro$$ Lyin.
The problem is, if the big names don't fire, you have issues.

[plugger66]

Would it make a difference if the ground at Seaford was capable of holding a match for premiership points? I think it would.

Why? The AFL are never going to build another ground. I still dont see why it matters where you train. They are nearly all closed sessions anyway and the days of big crowds going to training are pretty much over.

I'm not thinking about training so much. The south east is only going to grow and if the numbers justify it you could probably justify another ground. Population growth is inevitable and another playing ground probably is too one day. We could be to the south east what Geelong is to the south west.

A ground would cost about 100 million to build. There is no way the AFL or the government is going to spend money like that and I doubt private enterprise would in an area out of the city. Geelong joined the VFL at the start of the comp and that is why they kept the ground. Even if a new side started in the SE they would never build a ground for them. The AFL have contracts and will own Etihad in 12 years. They wouldnt want another ground. I dont get how population growth equtes to another ground.

[BigMart]

There's has been two new grounds in the last 4 years

[plugger66]

All the carry on about where we train is pissing around the edges.

The crux of the matter is that the AFL exists to administer the competition on behalf of the clubs. Instead it has morphed into the owner of the game, dictating to the clubs. When clubs were lurching into shocking financial condition the AFL were locking in big sponsorships and dictating that clubs could not take on conflicting sponsors. They were adding teams to a FIXture that gradually became more uneven and driven solely by marketing, further locking some teams into a position that made it more difficult to secure sponsors. Then they locked some teams into ground deals that raped them. They have ensured that the very things that are causing difficulties for some teams have become systemic. And while all of this goes on, the AFL itself was the most rapidly growing bureaucracy in the competition. While more clubs were knocking on the door for handouts, the AFL admin were moving into bigger and better digs!!

Make no mistake, expecially our resident AFL apologist, more and more of the money coming into the game has gradually moved to the AFL coffers instead of the clubs accounts. The irony is that the AFL is supposed to BE the clubs. It then, in all its arrogance, dictates to those clubs that it has condemned by its actions to perpetual begging, that they need to lift their game.

Dimwit is a disgrace. The game is so entrenched in the DNA of the population of this country that it will survive a nuclear war, so any claims that he is a great administrater are crap. He has grown fat on the back of the game, and instead of building a strong competition, he has move to entrench a setup that is dependent on the biggest clubs getting the best draw and timeslots, that is all he has. There has been no innovation, no creativity. He has built his success on the strength of a few, with everyone else playing bit parts, a lot like how our list functioned under Ro$$ Lyin.
The problem is, if the big names don't fire, you have issues.

And people say i start the personal attacks. Why would you mention me in this thread and dont give me some crao about if the cap fits. Why not just discuss it without me in it and then let me or other agree or disagree with you. And AD may be a disgrace but so will the next CEO and the one after that as were the ones before. Cant remember the up your Oakley stickers or the booing the CEO's used to cop when giving out the cup. That is why they stopped doing it IMO. The CEO will never be popular in supporters eyes because they have to look at the bigger picture and we only look at our club which is fair enough.

[plugger66]

There's has been two new grounds in the last 4 years

There has in the west of Sydney and i suppose you could say GC but that was there many years before. So I gather from that comment you think a ground will be built in the SE otherwise I have no idea why you mentioned it.

[Dis Believer]

And people say i start the personal attacks. Why would you mention me in this thread and dont give me some crao about if the cap fits. Why not just discuss it without me in it and then let me or other agree or disagree with you. And AD may be a disgrace but so will the next CEO and the one after that as were the ones before. Cant remember the up your Oakley stickers or the booing the CEO's used to cop when giving out the cup. That is why they stopped doing it IMO. The CEO will never be popular in supporters eyes because they have to look at the bigger picture and we only look at our club which is fair enough.

Where did I mention you? And I didn't start the thread, so maybe pick one target at a time. Do you want to have a go at me, or a go at whoever started the thread??

And for what its worth, I couldn't give a crap who starts what. I've always found that it's more important who finishes something than who starts it....

[plugger66]

And people say i start the personal attacks. Why would you mention me in this thread and dont give me some crao about if the cap fits. Why not just discuss it without me in it and then let me or other agree or disagree with you. And AD may be a disgrace but so will the next CEO and the one after that as were the ones before. Cant remember the up your Oakley stickers or the booing the CEO's used to cop when giving out the cup. That is why they stopped doing it IMO. The CEO will never be popular in supporters eyes because they have to look at the bigger picture and we only look at our club which is fair enough.

Where did I mention you? And I didn't start the thread, so maybe pick one target at a time. Do you want to have a go at me, or a go at whoever started the thread??

And for what its worth, I couldn't give a crap who starts what. I've always found that it's more important who finishes something than who starts it....

So you are honestly saying the AFL apologist you mentioned in the thread wasnt me? Id be 100% sure it was and I have no idea why it needed to be mentioned. Care to explain? I actually dont care about SP starting it because we have a go at each other all the time. Anyway what about what I wrote?

[Saints43]

The crux of the matter is that the AFL exists to administer the competition on behalf of the clubs.

I don't understand why Saints, North, Footscray, Richmond & Melbourne didn't vote/lobby as a bloc to ensure that the 'big 4' didn't get revenue & marketing opportunities unavailable to them.
Although, as TB says, why clubs that own an administering body should have needed to do that is beyond me.

[SteveStevens66]

True statement by True believer. This is precisely what happened.

I would only add that once promised untold riches, the clubs went along with their own emasculation. They were party to it and once they contributed to the AFL's complete lock on power, in essence facilitating its dictatorial rule, they lost all ability to resist. And that is where we are today. From punitive stadium deals to relentless rule changes to a fixed draw, the clubs and all the commentariat smile and refuse to stand up to the AFL. They just go along with everything like automatons. Greed and weakness drove them to "approve" the folly that is GC and GWS and now, when they actually had to sit and watch one early draft pick after another go to these parasites, some of the established clubs now have buyer's remorse. Years ago they should have thought about what it would mean to cede all authority to the AFL.

All the carry on about where we train is pissing around the edges.

The crux of the matter is that the AFL exists to administer the competition on behalf of the clubs. Instead it has morphed into the owner of the game, dictating to the clubs. When clubs were lurching into shocking financial condition the AFL were locking in big sponsorships and dictating that clubs could not take on conflicting sponsors. They were adding teams to a FIXture that gradually became more uneven and driven solely by marketing, further locking some teams into a position that made it more difficult to secure sponsors. Then they locked some teams into ground deals that raped them. They have ensured that the very things that are causing difficulties for some teams have become systemic. And while all of this goes on, the AFL itself was the most rapidly growing bureaucracy in the competition. While more clubs were knocking on the door for handouts, the AFL admin were moving into bigger and better digs!!

Make no mistake, expecially our resident AFL apologist, more and more of the money coming into the game has gradually moved to the AFL coffers instead of the clubs accounts. The irony is that the AFL is supposed to BE the clubs. It then, in all its arrogance, dictates to those clubs that it has condemned by its actions to perpetual begging, that they need to lift their game.

Dimwit is a disgrace. The game is so entrenched in the DNA of the population of this country that it will survive a nuclear war, so any claims that he is a great administrater are crap. He has grown fat on the back of the game, and instead of building a strong competition, he has move to entrench a setup that is dependent on the biggest clubs getting the best draw and timeslots, that is all he has. There has been no innovation, no creativity. He has built his success on the strength of a few, with everyone else playing bit parts, a lot like how our list functioned under Ro$$ Lyin.
The problem is, if the big names don't fire, you have issues.

[bigcarl]

Dimwit is a disgrace.

The game is so entrenched in the DNA of the population of this country that it will survive a nuclear war, so any claims that he is a great administrater are crap.

He has grown fat on the back of the game, and instead of building a strong competition, he has move to entrench a setup that is dependent on the biggest clubs getting the best draw and timeslots, that is all he has.

There has been no innovation, no creativity.

Well said. The fixture is a joke and puts paid to any claims of credibility the AFL might pretend to as a competition.