Any Ideas for Captain 2013?

[evo]

I don't really care who plays in the ruck, as long as they are capable...

I agree..... Capable being the operative word!

Yep and we certainly have one. I really beleive those who somehow think a 23 ruckman should be at his best now must be very young and havent seen much footy so they do have an excuse for arguing this way. How was Cox and Sandilands going at 23? Not sure you have answered that but that maybe because you are very young now and never saw them play at 23. Thats all I can come up with.

Young! I saw Ditterich play his first game. I do not give a toss how Sandilands was going at 23. Injuries aside we will see who is first ruck before the end of this season. I am not saying Macca is no good he just does not win his share of taps to advantage and I don't think he ever will. Maybe to the midfield, he seems to have the tank.

[plugger66]

I agree..... Capable being the operative word!

Yep and we certainly have one. I really beleive those who somehow think a 23 ruckman should be at his best now must be very young and havent seen much footy so they do have an excuse for arguing this way. How was Cox and Sandilands going at 23? Not sure you have answered that but that maybe because you are very young now and never saw them play at 23. Thats all I can come up with.

Young! I saw Ditterich play his first game. I do not give a toss how Sandilands was going at 23. Injuries aside we will see who is first ruck before the end of this season. I am not saying Macca is no good he just does not win his share of taps to advantage and I don't think he ever will. Maybe to the midfield, he seems to have the tank.

Well he is 23 so he wont improve. You dont care how Sandilands was going because it mat actually show Ruckmen inprove until at least 28- 29 barring injury.

And what does maybe to the midfield mean? Surely you actually dont think he could be a proper mid? Tell me you understand footy more that please?

[ROLS-LEE]

Wasn't Spider Burton their number 1 ruck then???


What's not to prove. Gardner was in AA form. There is a good possibility that Ben won't even get nominated.

Name a GF winning team plugger without a dominate ruck bar hawks in 08 .

Dont know many. Dont see what that has to do with Ben. So that means Hickey will play ahead Of Ben? have no idea why you even asked the question. What has Burton got to do with sandilands at 23 years of age? If sandilands was as good then as he is now he would have played before Burton. And like most ruckmen Sandilands improved after 23 as did Cox. You are basically saying Ben wont improve where as i am saying he is a fair way ahead of Cox and Sandilands at that age so he probably still will improve.

And its Gardiner.

So Ben is going to be better than cox and sandilands then. Watch out the rest of the AFL .

The issue is Ben had no threat on his position up until now. It was one of the few positions at our club were he was selected regardless of form as there was no one else to take his spot.

Not now

If Ben is so great now, better than cox and sandilands, at 23, how many games ever, has he beaten his opponent. Not many.

[plugger66]

Wasn't Spider Burton their number 1 ruck then???


What's not to prove. Gardner was in AA form. There is a good possibility that Ben won't even get nominated.

Name a GF winning team plugger without a dominate ruck bar hawks in 08 .

Dont know many. Dont see what that has to do with Ben. So that means Hickey will play ahead Of Ben? have no idea why you even asked the question. What has Burton got to do with sandilands at 23 years of age? If sandilands was as good then as he is now he would have played before Burton. And like most ruckmen Sandilands improved after 23 as did Cox. You are basically saying Ben wont improve where as i am saying he is a fair way ahead of Cox and Sandilands at that age so he probably still will improve.

And its Gardiner.

So Ben is going to be better than cox and sandilands then. Watch out the rest of the AFL .

The issue is Ben had no threat on his position up until now. It was one of the few positions at our club were he was selected regardless of form as there was no one else to take his spot.

Not now

If Ben is so great now, better than cox and sandilands, at 23, how many games ever, has he beaten his opponent. Not many.

I certainly think Ben is better than Cox and sandilands at 23 years of age. You havent come back with anything to prove otherwise and even resorting to lies like Ben is better than Cox and sandilands.

Beaten his opponent. matter of opinion and I also cant remember every game he has played.

[ROLS-LEE]

What's not to prove. Gardner was in AA form. There is a good possibility that Ben won't even get nominated.

Name a GF winning team plugger without a dominate ruck bar hawks in 08 .[/quote]


Dont know many. Dont see what that has to do with Ben. So that means Hickey will play ahead Of Ben? have no idea why you even asked the question. What has Burton got to do with sandilands at 23 years of age? If sandilands was as good then as he is now he would have played before Burton. And like most ruckmen Sandilands improved after 23 as did Cox. You are basically saying Ben wont improve where as i am saying he is a fair way ahead of Cox and Sandilands at that age so he probably still will improve.

And its Gardiner

So Ben is going to be better than cox and sandilands then. Watch out the rest of the AFL .

The issue is Ben had no threat on his position up until now. It was one of the few positions at our club were he was selected regardless of form as there was no one else to take his spot.

Not now

If Ben is so great now, better than cox and sandilands, at 23, how many games ever, has he beaten his opponent. Not many.[/quote]


I certainly think Ben is better than Cox and sandilands at 23 years of age. You havent come back with anything to prove otherwise and even resorting to lies like Ben is better than Cox and sandilands.

Beaten his opponent. matter of opinion and I also cant remember every game he has played.[/quote]





http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/play ... n_Cox.html


Look at 2004/5 thats when he was 22 /23. No comparison Dean cox was better.

[evo]

I don't care where he plays as long as it is not first ruck unless he suddenly develops a leap and can get his hand to the ball. We can not wait until he is 28-29 to improve. If Hickey or whoever overtakes him in ruck where would you play him?

[gringo]

I don't care where he plays as long as it is not first ruck unless he suddenly develops a leap and can get his hand to the ball. We can not wait until he is 28-29 to improve. If Hickey or whoever overtakes him in ruck where would you play him?

I think that's the point- not many guys can get a game as just a ruckman. If he plays as a chop out defender when resting he can still be played. If he doesn't develop any better at ruckwork there are others that could do that role including Kosi and Blake. He isn't there yet and Hickey is a developing ruck in his early 20s too. I hope one becomes dominant in 2013 and I don't care which. If we can get both playing good footy in the one team even better. We do need a guy to feed our mids though.

[plugger66]

I don't care where he plays as long as it is not first ruck unless he suddenly develops a leap and can get his hand to the ball. We can not wait until he is 28-29 to improve. If Hickey or whoever overtakes him in ruck where would you play him?

Of course I would. I aint his Dad but I reckon Hickey or whoever it is are no where near Ben at the moment. And there really isnt any other spot for Ben. He cant play as a backman and I think he is to slow to play forward. He is a natural follower who will improve as a tap ruckman.

[bergholt]

If Ben is so great now, better than cox and sandilands, at 23, how many games ever, has he beaten his opponent. Not many.

If Hickey's so good how did he only play 12 games in two years at Gold Coast, which finished 17th both years?

[evo]

Some must have rose tinted glasses on when they watch Macca. Hickey is only 21 now and not long in the system and developing quickly. The intra club practice match will be interesting.

[plugger66]

Some must have rose tinted glasses on when they watch Macca. Hickey is only 21 now and not long in the system and developing quickly. The intra club practice match will be interesting.

In all honesty how many games have you seen this guy play. I have no rose tinted glasses about Ben. I watch him play through 2 eyes and I see a young improving ruckman.
I know nothing of Hickey except what we paid for him. I hope he is a champion. The intra club practice match will mean bugger all. It will be the practice matches against an opposition that will mean something.

[evo]

Some must have rose tinted glasses on when they watch Macca. Hickey is only 21 now and not long in the system and developing quickly. The intra club practice match will be interesting.

In all honesty how many games have you seen this guy play. I have no rose tinted glasses about Ben. I watch him play through 2 eyes and I see a young improving ruckman.
I know nothing of Hickey except what we paid for him. I hope he is a champion. The intra club practice match will mean bugger all. It will be the practice matches against an opposition that will mean something.

What makes you think I was referring to you.

[ROLS-LEE]

Some must have rose tinted glasses on when they watch Macca. Hickey is only 21 now and not long in the system and developing quickly. The intra club practice match will be interesting.

In all honesty how many games have you seen this guy play. I have no rose tinted glasses about Ben. I watch him play through 2 eyes and I see a young improving ruckman.
I know nothing of Hickey except what we paid for him. I hope he is a champion. The intra club practice match will mean bugger all. It will be the practice matches against an opposition that will mean something.

So plugger cox was very good at 22 to 23 then hey. Grand final success in one and number 1 ruck as well. They must not be rose tinted glasses but vivid imagination if you think Ben is better than cox then.

Damn i love the saints 20 continuous years as member reserve seat and social club member, but i am a realist.

[plugger66]

Some must have rose tinted glasses on when they watch Macca. Hickey is only 21 now and not long in the system and developing quickly. The intra club practice match will be interesting.

In all honesty how many games have you seen this guy play. I have no rose tinted glasses about Ben. I watch him play through 2 eyes and I see a young improving ruckman.
I know nothing of Hickey except what we paid for him. I hope he is a champion. The intra club practice match will mean bugger all. It will be the practice matches against an opposition that will mean something.

So plugger cox was very good at 22 to 23 then hey. Grand final success in one and number 1 ruck as well. They must not be rose tinted glasses but vivid imagination if you think Ben is better than cox then.

Damn i love the saints 20 continuous years as member reserve seat and social club member, but i am a realist.

When have I said Ben is better than Cox? Not once. I think you said I did or Evo but I certainly didnt. You would be on drugs to say that.

[evo]

Wasn't Spider Burton their number 1 ruck then???


What's not to prove. Gardner was in AA form. There is a good possibility that Ben won't even get nominated.

Name a GF winning team plugger without a dominate ruck bar hawks in 08 .

Dont know many. Dont see what that has to do with Ben. So that means Hickey will play ahead Of Ben? have no idea why you even asked the question. What has Burton got to do with sandilands at 23 years of age? If sandilands was as good then as he is now he would have played before Burton. And like most ruckmen Sandilands improved after 23 as did Cox. You are basically saying Ben wont improve where as i am saying he is a fair way ahead of Cox and Sandilands at that age so he probably still will improve.

[ROLS-LEE]

In all honesty how many games have you seen this guy play. I have no rose tinted glasses about Ben. I watch him play through 2 eyes and I see a young improving ruckman.
I know nothing of Hickey except what we paid for him. I hope he is a champion. The intra club practice match will mean bugger all. It will be the practice matches against an opposition that will mean something.[/quote]


So plugger cox was very good at 22 to 23 then hey. Grand final success in one and number 1 ruck as well. They must not be rose tinted glasses but vivid imagination if you think Ben is better than cox then.

Damn i love the saints 20 continuous years as member reserve seat and social club member, but i am a realist.[/quote]


When have I said Ben is better than Cox? Not once. I think you said I did or Evo but I certainly didnt. You would be on drugs to say that.[/quote]


So plugger what drugs are you on then, and your a liar.

[BackFromUSA]

Hickey - strengths are massive leap and good tap ruckman, strong mark, athletic but yet to learn to read the play as a ruckman but is very dangerous tall forward.

McEvoy - poor tap ruckman, reads the paly around the ground well, very strong mark, good heading back into defence in 70s style ruck role, ineffective when forward.

If I was coach:

Hickey takes centre bounce taps and runs forward. At centre bounces, McEvoy positioned in defence to help spoil any quick clearance / long bomb to tall forwards and then resumes around the ground ruck role with a defensive focus ... takes back half of ground while Hickey rucks the forward line and wings.

[evo]

Hickey - strengths are massive leap and good tap ruckman, strong mark, athletic but yet to learn to read the play as a ruckman but is very dangerous tall forward.

McEvoy - poor tap ruckman, reads the paly around the ground well, very strong mark, good heading back into defence in 70s style ruck role, ineffective when forward.

If I was coach:

Hickey takes centre bounce taps and runs forward. At centre bounces, McEvoy positioned in defence to help spoil any quick clearance / long bomb to tall forwards and then resumes around the ground ruck role with a defensive focus ... takes back half of ground while Hickey rucks the forward line and wings.

Sounds reasonable to me.

[plugger66]

In all honesty how many games have you seen this guy play. I have no rose tinted glasses about Ben. I watch him play through 2 eyes and I see a young improving ruckman.
I know nothing of Hickey except what we paid for him. I hope he is a champion. The intra club practice match will mean bugger all. It will be the practice matches against an opposition that will mean something.

So plugger cox was very good at 22 to 23 then hey. Grand final success in one and number 1 ruck as well. They must not be rose tinted glasses but vivid imagination if you think Ben is better than cox then.

Damn i love the saints 20 continuous years as member reserve seat and social club member, but i am a realist.[/quote]


When have I said Ben is better than Cox? Not once. I think you said I did or Evo but I certainly didnt. You would be on drugs to say that.[/quote]


So plugger what drugs are you on then, and your a liar.[/quote]


You said that I said Ben was better than Cox and Sandilands. Funny you forgot to put in words like at their age. Of course that doesnt change what I said. Not much. makes it a totally dofferent statement. It is pathetic that both you and evo are resorting to lying or telling untruths to prove a point. When Ben was Cox age he had much better stats than Cox. I would guess he had much better than Sandilands as well. Now instead of lying prove me wrong with some sort of fact.

[plugger66]

Hickey - strengths are massive leap and good tap ruckman, strong mark, athletic but yet to learn to read the play as a ruckman but is very dangerous tall forward.

McEvoy - poor tap ruckman, reads the paly around the ground well, very strong mark, good heading back into defence in 70s style ruck role, ineffective when forward.

If I was coach:

Hickey takes centre bounce taps and runs forward. At centre bounces, McEvoy positioned in defence to help spoil any quick clearance / long bomb to tall forwards and then resumes around the ground ruck role with a defensive focus ... takes back half of ground while Hickey rucks the forward line and wings.

Im unsure you can use ruckmen like that but maybe we try it in the practice games. I take it you think Stanley will play back and only one of Lee, Wilkes and Kosi will play.

[kosifantutti]

You said that I said Ben was better than Cox and Sandilands. Funny you forgot to put in words like at their age. Of course that doesnt change what I said. Not much. makes it a totally dofferent statement. It is pathetic that both you and evo are resorting to lying or telling untruths to prove a point. When Ben was Cox age he had much better stats than Cox. I would guess he had much better than Sandilands as well. Now instead of lying prove me wrong with some sort of fact.

You accuse people of being on drugs and then you come out with rubbish like this.
I assume you mean when Cox was Ben's age because Cox is older than Ben.

Cox in 2004 at 22/23
Disposals 13.6
Hit Outs 22.3
Goals 0.2
Marks 5.1
Brownlow votes 5

Sandilands in 2006 23
Disposals 12.8
Hit Outs 24.6
Goals 0.3
Brownlow votes 5
Marks 4.6

Ben in 2012 22/23
Disposals 12.3
Hit Outs 25.3
Goals 0.4
Brownlow votes 0
Marks 5.3

Where is Ben much better?

[Superstar]

Roo for this year. Give it to Benny next year and let him grow into the job !!

The only issue with this is, I think the team are in for some tough years, and Ben is still trying to find his place in the game. Wouldn't mind seeing another captain in between Roo and Ben. Whether it be Dal, Joey or even Lenny for a year or two, with Ben and Armo as vice captains. Then make the change.

I just look at Melbourne with Trengrove and Grimes.

[ROLS-LEE]

You said that I said Ben was better than Cox and Sandilands. Funny you forgot to put in words like at their age. Of course that doesnt change what I said. Not much. makes it a totally dofferent statement. It is pathetic that both you and evo are resorting to lying or telling untruths to prove a point. When Ben was Cox age he had much better stats than Cox. I would guess he had much better than Sandilands as well. Now instead of lying prove me wrong with some sort of fact.

You accuse people of being on drugs and then you come out with rubbish like this.
I assume you mean when Cox was Ben's age because Cox is older than Ben.

Cox in 2004 at 22/23
Disposals 13.6
Hit Outs 22.3
Goals 0.2
Marks 5.1
Brownlow votes 5

Sandilands in 2006 23
Disposals 12.8
Hit Outs 24.6
Goals 0.3
Brownlow votes 5
Marks 4.6

Ben in 2012 22/23
Disposals 12.3
Hit Outs 25.3
Goals 0.4
Brownlow votes 0
Marks 5.3

Where is Ben much better?

He isn't. The key point with the stats that you provided is brownlow votes. Both potentially had 5 great games in the umpires eyes. Ben has never been dominate in a game and very rarely beats his opponent.
To put it bluntly, no opposition fears him the same way as a cox or sandilands.
With all said and done i hope he improves, but at this point of time he needed to work on his game and not worry about being captain.

[SaintPav]

Roo for this year. Give it to Benny next year and let him grow into the job !!

The only issue with this is, I think the team are in for some tough years, and Ben is still trying to find his place in the game. Wouldn't mind seeing another captain in between Roo and Ben. Whether it be Dal, Joey or even Lenny for a year or two, with Ben and Armo as vice captains. Then make the change.

I just look at Melbourne with Trengrove and Grimes.

Why would the club give the gig to Lenny when he only has one or two years left? It defies the purpose of a change and it would be a slap in the face to Roo who has been a good captain for us.

[SaintPav]

You said that I said Ben was better than Cox and Sandilands. Funny you forgot to put in words like at their age. Of course that doesnt change what I said. Not much. makes it a totally dofferent statement. It is pathetic that both you and evo are resorting to lying or telling untruths to prove a point. When Ben was Cox age he had much better stats than Cox. I would guess he had much better than Sandilands as well. Now instead of lying prove me wrong with some sort of fact.

You accuse people of being on drugs and then you come out with rubbish like this.
I assume you mean when Cox was Ben's age because Cox is older than Ben.

Cox in 2004 at 22/23
Disposals 13.6
Hit Outs 22.3
Goals 0.2
Marks 5.1
Brownlow votes 5

Sandilands in 2006 23
Disposals 12.8
Hit Outs 24.6
Goals 0.3
Brownlow votes 5
Marks 4.6

Ben in 2012 22/23
Disposals 12.3
Hit Outs 25.3
Goals 0.4
Brownlow votes 0
Marks 5.3

Where is Ben much better?

He isn't. The key point with the stats that you provided is brownlow votes. Both potentially had 5 great games in the umpires eyes. Ben has never been dominate in a game and very rarely beats his opponent.
To put it bluntly, no opposition fears him the same way as a cox or sandilands.
With all said and done i hope he improves, but at this point of time he needed to work on his game and not worry about being captain.

Ben's top ten games have been pretty good. He'll get better as well but probably not as good as those two.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/play ... cEvoy.html