Doubt is not good enough and I didn't say that he would change his mind just because a club were furious with him, I suggested that it might have actually prompted him to do a bit of research (if he has any journalistic integrity, perhaps) because it sounds like he just heard about the deal and tweeted something, without doing much research into it, but then changed his tune once he dug a bit deeper and found out what some of those who really know what they are talking about think of him. As for the club getting in touch with him, all it takes is having someone in or close to the club who is on Twitter tweeting him back about it to put forward a case as to why it was a good deal, to perhaps get him to look into it a bit more, or else a quick phone call.plugger66 wrote:
Firstly I doubt a reporter would change their mind on a player because the club were furious because I doubt the club would even bother contacting the writer but I do know a couple of people in recruiting so I could find out if I could be bothered which I cant.
Don't forget that he also removed what he initially said about Spencer White and his wrist injury in his online article on the night of the draft and that might have also been at the request of the club. It's hard to see why that would have been removed otherwise.
Bloody hell, why is it that I have to explain so many replies I do to you after you've completely misread or misunderstood what I have said in one of my posts? Do you do it on purpose, or what?plugger66 wrote:Now you want to compare us to Sydney and to me the important years of trading were in the late 2000's because those players will now be coming into their prime.
I went through the drafts, trades, rookies and rookie elevation in 2008 and 2009 and in the time we have got Stanley and Ray and that is it I believe. Happy to be shown to be wrong. In that time the Swans have got Johnston, Hannebery, Pyke, Smith, Shaw, Mumford, McGlynn, Kennedy, Rohan, Jetta and reid. I think all bar one played in the 2012 premiership time. Now this doesnt mean the players we got in the last 2 years cant be as good, but it does mean we are a good 2 to 3 years from coming good again even if our players are as good. My point stands, 2 to 3 years of crap recruiting puts us miles behind the Swans. I think all we can do is read and weep about those pathetic recruiting years.
I'm not saying that we are now where Sydney are now, I'm saying that we are now where Sydney were between the 2009 and 2010 seasons. The similarities are extraordinary. In fact we are probably ahead of where they were at that point, because we had a better season in 2012 than they did in 2009 and we've actually had a good drafting period under our belts (2011, IMO), whereas most of their good drafting/trading didn't start until that 2009 trade/draft period (when they got all of Mumford, McGlynn, Kennedy, Rohan, Jetta and Reid- and BTW, that Johnston you named is not the one who played in the GF for them, the one you named has been delisted). Yet they were able to rise from 12th to 5th the following year (2010), which you are claiming we "can't do" next year, despite the fact that we've had a similarly aggressive trading period this offseason, to go with some good trades and picks last year and there being so many other similarities.
I'm extremely well aware of how good their drafting and trading was in 2009, that off-field period at the end of 2009 is what has been widely credited with helping them to turn things around since, but my point was that PRIOR TO that time (as in, the start of trade week in 2009) their list was in pretty much the exact sort of state, if not worse, than ours was when trade week started this year.
The similarities:
-Sydney had played finals for years leading up to 2009, but missed the finals that year for the first time in years. We had played finals for years leading up to 2012, but missed the finals for the first time in years.
-Sydney had had several years of very poor drafting (see below) leading up to the 2009 season. We had had several years of very poor drafting leading up to the 2012 period (although I believe we had a much better one in 2011 than they had in 2008).
-Sydney had Hall, Jolly and O'Laughlin leave at the end of 2009 and had Kirk in his final year the next year. We have had Goddard and Gram leave at the end of 2012 and there is a likelihood that our version of Kirk, Lenny, may be in his last year next season (as may Milne, making it 4 each).
-Sydney went on an aggressive recruiting period and landed a couple of cheap trades that have turned out really well when no-one expected much from them, in trade week in 2009 and drafted really well. We went on a very aggressive trade week in 2012 and landed a couple who were much more expensive, who could very easily end up very good, in trade week of 2012 and believe that we've done well with several of our draft picks in both the 2011 and 2012 drafts.
-On the back of all that Sydney very unexpectedly turned their slide around in 2010 and rose from 12th to 5th, when most probably expected them to fall lower than 12th. ?????? What will we do in 2013????
This is where I'm saying that, like Sydney in 2010, we can also rise, in 2013. If it was possible for Sydney to go from 12th to 5th, from 2009 to 2010, when almost everyone expected them to slide further, when there were so many similarities to where we were at the end of 2012, then it is likewise possible for us to rise from 9th in 2012 to something higher, in 2013. This is my point.
I wasn't suggesting that we were now what Sydney are now, I am suggesting that we are now where Sydney were in the 2009/ 2010 offseason and that if our trades and drafting in the past couple of years turn out to be even close to what Sydney did in 2009 alone, that we could find ourselves in the sort of position Sydney were this year, in say 2015, when Roo will be the age Goodes was this year and Dal and Joey and Chips will be the sort of age Jude Bolton and Ryan O'Keefe were this year. They might not still be around, but on the other hand they might and we might be there in 2014 actually, because we had a better draft/trade period in 2011 than they did in 2008, so we may be able to get there one year "earlier" than they did (it took them 3 years- from 2009 to 2012, we may be able to do it in two, as we are coming from a higher base). We also have the added advantage now of being able to use free agency to top up when anyone retires, which Sydney did not have access to in the 2009-2012 years between that great trade/draft period and them dropping out of the finals in 2009 and their flag.
Just back on Sydney's drafting prior to that 2009 season I was referring to, I went back and had a look at who they picked up in the national drafts from 2005- 2008 (4 drafts) and here is the list of everyone they took in the national drafts in that time (this is the 4 years leading up to the 2009 season I keep referring to):
2005
Matthew Laidlaw 51
Kristin Thornton 54
Ryan Brabozon 59
2006
Daniel O'Keefe 15
Daniel Currie 49
Paul Faulks 65
Jesse White 79
2007
Pat Veszpremi 11
Brett Meredith 26
Craig Bird 59
2008
Lewis Johnstone 12
Daniel Hannebery 30
Campbell Heath 61
And everyone thinks our drafting in the 2008-2010 period was bad! As I said earlier, that Lewis Johnstone is not the Johnston that played for them in the GF, he is now clogging up Adelaide's list, so as far as I'm aware the only ones they took in a national draft in those 4 years that are still on their list are Hannebery, Bird and White (who they don't play). I had a brief look at who they took in the rookie drafts in that period and they looked to be just as bad.
All of this was in response to this post of yours, just in case you're wondering:
Yes you can and Sydney did it in 2010.plugger66 wrote: I will say it again and again. You cannot lose basically 3 years of recruiting and have stars who are getting older and still hope to climb the ladder. Comparing us to Sydney is only relevent if they had 3 years in the late 2000's when they basically got not one star player. Pretty sure in that time that got 2-4 star players depending on your view of what a star is.
At the end of the 2009 season they had dropped out of the finals for the first time in years, coming 12th with a % of 90, lost Barry Hall, Darren Jolly and MIchael O'Laughlin and had Kirk going into his last season and in the 4 years prior to that time they had done some of the worst drafting in history, so had almost no decent "youth" and yet were able to turn it all around and rise all the way to 5th the following season, against most expectations. They are proof that it can be done.
If they could do that, we can sure as s*** rise from 9th with a % of 120odd last season to a higher position next year, if some similar things go well for us next year (and we don't need anywhere near as much to go right for us as they did then, because we are coming from a stronger position this year than they were that year).
Hopefully that makes sense. We are now in a very similar position to where Sydney were in the 2010 preseason (for all the reasons listed above) and I believe we are going about our "rebuild" in a very similar way to the way they did it then. ie. not "bottoming out and playing the kids", but aiming to stay ultra-competitive and gradually integrating the "kids" into the team, once they are ready and hoping that by staying "thereabouts"/in the mix, that we might be able to grab a flag in the next few years like Sydney did this year, when they weren't necessarily the best team for the year, or the team with the most top 10 draft picks (in fact they had just 1), but were the team that made the most of their opportunities when they arose, largely thanks to how experienced and professional they were. As I keep on saying, we also have the added advantage that free agency is an option now and we are going to have huge cap space to have a big crack at that over the next couple of years, which could help us to immediately offset the loss of say Lenny and Milne.
There are no guarantees of course and just because it worked for Sydney doesn't mean it will work for us, but there are no guarantees going about it the "Melbourne way" either, as they have found out. Richmond are another team that haven't played finals for 10 years, proving that getting lots of high draft picks doesn't guarantee you anything at all. SOmetimes staying ultra-competitive and maintaining that winning habit is much more beneficial.