Barry Brooks and Fergus Watts Trades

[CURLY]

These two trades get a lot of stick when the dooms dayers are on their rants about our trading and drafting. What most people choose to ignore as both players where huge talents and sort after young key position footballers. No one could of imagined the shocking injuries that basically ended their football careers. Watts I believe could hardly play local football if at all after giving it away. All of us on here no doubt would have loved for them to work and where no doubt wrapt to recruit both but injuries can never be forseen.

[dragit]

Okay, let's focus our whinging on with Howard, Sweeney, Heyne & Co then.

[CURLY]

Okay, let's focus our whinging on with Howard, Sweeney, Heyne & Co then.

No dramas I think the Sweeney pick at 900 odd has set us back 10 years.

[St Ick]

Fair comment. Same with Lovett really. Despite his brain explosions off field, lots of clubs were chasing him, we 'won' the chase and he was just what we needed 'on field'....

I rated Watts, same way I rated Gunston when he wanted to come home. Did having family at the club cause us to overpay? Probably not, but he had me really keen when he came over and was probably going to be a gun if not injured.

Barry Brooks, never was happy with that one. But (sh)it shippens...

[Dr Spaceman]

I think the Sweeney pick at 900 odd has set us back 10 years.

[gringo]

Barry Brookes was a highly rated junior and Watts should have made it but like Jarryd Allen just got screwed over by his body. It is just a bit of luck sometimes with a footy career one bad injury it's all over. I remember in Ross Lyons first year we had a guy from brisbane Jayden Attard? He was probably one of our most consistent players all year as a tagger did his knee and was sent on his way. It's a pretty ruthless industry footy. You wonder about where Xavier Clarke and Goose might have gone if hey hadn't been struck with injuries.

[Devilhead]

Barry Brookes was a highly rated junior and Watts should have made it but like Jarryd Allen just got screwed over by his body. It is just a bit of luck sometimes with a footy career one bad injury it's all over. I remember in Ross Lyons first year we had a guy from brisbane Jayden Attard? He was probably one of our most consistent players all year as a tagger did his knee and was sent on his way. It's a pretty ruthless industry footy. You wonder about where Xavier Clarke and Goose might have gone if hey hadn't been struck with injuries.

Clarke was a brilliant player when up and running and if Goose hadnt broken his leg (and you can throw in his head injury) he was on track to be the best centre half back in the league.

Kosi's head injury set him back years and he has never been the same player since.

Penny's knee, Sammy's knee, Jaryd Allen who knows?? We could go on and on and on and on ........

Thing is all clubs suffer injuries unfortunately for the Saints our injuries in the last decade have impacted badly on our teams fortunes when our window was wide open. If some/most of these injuries hadnt occured we may have won another 4 to 5 premierships given how talented (if all on the park) the team was.

Most of us will say how unlucky we are/were and they would be right however hopefully there will be a time when the shoe is on the other foot and we are the ones benefitting from some other team's terrible misfortune (not that I wish that on anyone but in this case stuff it)

[hayes66]

These two trades get a lot of stick when the dooms dayers are on their rants about our trading and drafting. What most people choose to ignore as both players where huge talents and sort after young key position footballers. No one could of imagined the shocking injuries that basically ended their football careers. Watts I believe could hardly play local football if at all after giving it away. All of us on here no doubt would have loved for them to work and where no doubt wrapt to recruit both but injuries can never be forseen.

Finally a person assessing a trade rationally and non emotionally.
Well done.
I find it interesting that The Herald/Sun recently published an article on drafting since 2000. It gave points for games played and where the players were selected. So there was some weighting involved.
It produced a ladder involving all clubs.
On top, came Geelong, no surprises there. StKlda came fifth. I waited to see if anyone made mention of this on Saintsational.
From my research , which maybe wrong, I could not find one mention. This from a club that has traditionally had one of the lowest recruiting budgets.
I apologise, if someone take offence to this but I have a feeling if the Saints had rated a lot lower, it would of been a thread with a hundred responses.
As I keep saying, yes there have been mistakes and I understand the passion involved but do honestly believe things haven't been as disastrous as some people make out.

[BigMart]

Brooks extremely talented..... Not competitive or driven enough to succeed at the highest level. His knee injury set him back as it sapped his confidence to jump into a contest. He wins games of footy for fun now at Greensborough or Craigeburn or wherever he plays and won the League B&F this year. No problem with trading for an AA U18 Ruckman FRDP after a year on list behind Brogan, Primus, Lade, Ackland....good selection.... Bad luck

Watts... Injured, I broke my ankle (Talis) playing footy the same way as Fergus, lost 50 mobility.... And live with constant pain. Again, good selection, just bad luck. Was never going to get back.

Sweeney, no problem with taking a speculative at 74.... Just at least speak to the boy and do some thorough research before putting two years into a kid who had some tricks, but was NEVER going to make it. I thought we should be more professional than drafted a kid without due process... FFS he was a smoker and not only.... Couldn't be bothered with trying out for TAC Cup, yadda yadda yadda... BTW. Siposs was taken with a later pick?! So throwing any pick away is silly. Jarryn Geary was pick 70 in the Rookie Draft. So basically pick 150 odd...

Lovett... Hardly anyone would touch him, his issues were well known, he was basically outed at Essendon. Drafting him was absolutely short sighted and was against club protocol.... If anyone was surprised by his behaviour, even before his big night... We're ignorant to his lifestyle and attitude. First class 'C' word

[plugger66]

Brooks extremely talented..... Not competitive or driven enough to succeed at the highest level. His knee injury set him back as it sapped his confidence to jump into a contest. He wins games of footy for fun now at Greensborough or Craigeburn or wherever he plays and won the League B&F this year. No problem with trading for an AA U18 Ruckman FRDP after a year on list behind Brogan, Primus, Lade, Ackland....good selection.... Bad luck

Watts... Injured, I broke my ankle (Talis) playing footy the same way as Fergus, lost 50 mobility.... And live with constant pain. Again, good selection, just bad luck. Was never going to get back.

Sweeney, no problem with taking a speculative at 74.... Just at least speak to the boy and do some thorough research before putting two years into a kid who had some tricks, but was NEVER going to make it. I thought we should be more professional than drafted a kid without due process... FFS he was a smoker and not only.... Couldn't be bothered with trying out for TAC Cup, yadda yadda yadda... BTW. Siposs was taken with a later pick?! So throwing any pick away is silly. Jarryn Geary was pick 70 in the Rookie Draft. So basically pick 150 odd...

Lovett... Hardly anyone would touch him, his issues were well known, he was basically outed at Essendon. Drafting him was absolutely short sighted and was against club protocol.... If anyone was surprised by his behaviour, even before his big night... We're ignorant to his lifestyle and attitude. First class 'C' word

In Sweeney defence he didnt try out at under 18 level because he had a FT job and his parents didnt really have the money to support him. He was a smoker though.

[Dr Spaceman]

In Sweeney defence...... 
He was a smoker though.

This type of drafting always has it's drawbacks.

Showed a bit of spark early but ended up being just a plain package.

[bobmurray]

In Sweeney defence...... 
He was a smoker though.

This type of drafting always has it's drawbacks.

Showed a bit of spark early but ended up being just a plain package.

Had to butt out in the end when he got the chop chop.....

[whiskers3614]

Don't worry about Brooks and Watts, the Ball/Lovett fiasco will set us back as much as the Barrot-Stewart swap.

[bergsone]

Draft=win some,lose some.

[Devilhead]

Draft=win some,lose some.

Cheers Berg sone

[BigMart]

And your work wouldn't allow a first year apprentice to have 3 evenings off a week in the summer for two hours, and two off on the winter... sometimes after dark?? Chippies don't generally work then?!

Most kids in the TAC cup are in full time Y11or Y12 studies.... They don't train like AFL footballers?? In actual fact, he probably didn't train as long as he would have playing for Tyabb...

Travel... So his parents or work colleagues wouldn't chop him out for a lift to Shepley Oval?? Or the dozen or so other kids from the peninsula wouldn't be able to give him a lift??

Luckily for Lachie Whitfield his friends and family supported his desires......

Fact is, it was desire that was missing, and of you want something bad enough, you'll make it work. You get few opportunities. Kids miss out who leave NO stone unturned and would give their left nut for an opportunity...... Often miss out

I posted in 2005 just after he was drafted that a number of young fellas I knew through cricket had played footy against him in the MPNFL. Common theme, they were astounded, and apparently even he was shocked, although after doing well in the inter league carnival he was on the radar. In short he was described as a bogan, who smoked, drank cans and had a s*** attitude... But could play a bit. From what I was told..... His career post AFL would suggest he wasn't that serious about his footy...

He wasn't good enough to not GAF

BTW
I would only draft a kid who was serious about themselves and their footy.... Smoking would put a line straight through a kid in my books.

And yes, I am aware Armo was supposedly a smoker.

[sasaint]

Can't believe that Howard's name has not been mentioned. Now that was a speculative trade and a waste ofa draft pick.

[vacuous space]

Can't believe that Howard's name has not been mentioned.

Second post.

Howard's not exactly akin to Brooks or Watts either. Both those two were highly regarded and expected to be first round picks. Howard wasn't on anyone's radar. He was a surprise pick. Supposedly, he had remarkable athletic ability. He never found enough of the footy to show it off though.

[plugger66]

And your work wouldn't allow a first year apprentice to have 3 evenings off a week in the summer for two hours, and two off on the winter... sometimes after dark?? Chippies don't generally work then?!

Most kids in the TAC cup are in full time Y11or Y12 studies.... They don't train like AFL footballers?? In actual fact, he probably didn't train as long as he would have playing for Tyabb...

Travel... So his parents or work colleagues wouldn't chop him out for a lift to Shepley Oval?? Or the dozen or so other kids from the peninsula wouldn't be able to give him a lift??

Luckily for Lachie Whitfield his friends and family supported his desires......

Fact is, it was desire that was missing, and of you want something bad enough, you'll make it work. You get few opportunities. Kids miss out who leave NO stone unturned and would give their left nut for an opportunity...... Often miss out

I posted in 2005 just after he was drafted that a number of young fellas I knew through cricket had played footy against him in the MPNFL. Common theme, they were astounded, and apparently even he was shocked, although after doing well in the inter league carnival he was on the radar. In short he was described as a bogan, who smoked, drank cans and had a s*** attitude... But could play a bit. From what I was told..... His career post AFL would suggest he wasn't that serious about his footy...

He wasn't good enough to not GAF

BTW
I would only draft a kid who was serious about themselves and their footy.... Smoking would put a line straight through a kid in my books.

And yes, I am aware Armo was supposedly a smoker.

Lets face it you know nothing about his job. No he couldnt do as you suggested. it is that simple. I am not saying we should have drafted him but I do have more idea as to why he didnt play TAC than you do. Why didnt Jimmy play? Of course that is different because he has made it and Sweeney didnt so you will come up with some reason that makes it different. And yes very lucky for Lachie he has very supportive parents. Something Justin didnt have.

[St Ick]

FFS BigMart get off Sweeneys case. He is still the most talented junior footballer I have ever seen. Yes, he didn't have the work ethic but he was under RL too, the toughest of the tough bastard coaches.

He make an ok fist of it in the VFL but wasnt up to it mentally. Do you remember the tidal wave of support from fans watching the twos at the time saying he is kicking goals why isn't he getting a game. Knowing Lyon, its attitude. In his one game he wasn't disgraced - yet he never got on the emergency list again and was delisted - again attitude. Move on from it there are heaps of kids who don't make it!

It gets me so fired up BM you really have to move on! Your apparent obsession with bagging him out is disturbing.

[St Ick]

Lovett... Hardly anyone would touch him, his issues were well known, he was basically outed at Essendon. Drafting him was absolutely short sighted...

I'd suggest you should do some research on this one. For both 08 & 09. He was very much an in demand player.

[bergholt]

Lovett... Hardly anyone would touch him, his issues were well known, he was basically outed at Essendon. Drafting him was absolutely short sighted and was against club protocol.... If anyone was surprised by his behaviour, even before his big night... We're ignorant to his lifestyle and attitude. First class 'C' word

And yet he only had to keep himself under control for a year or two and we would have likely won a flag. I still think that was a reasonable gamble. Plenty of players are pretty messy off-field and yet have premiership medallions, Brownlows, Colemans: Ablett, Carey, Swan, Franklin, Stewart, Lockett, etc, etc.

[BigMart]

P66.... Not sure he was boarding??
As I said, I do know a load of guys who know him, know that he wasn't committed or prepared... And the system spat him out as a result... Not his fault... Not at all, but a poor drafting policy.

Nice you mention Jimmy. Playing Senior footy in the EFL in 2004, premiership BOG. Didn't play TAC Cup because he was involved in grade cricket, Y12 studies and was (like Sam F) thinking of other careers. He is an Ex student from my school, comments about his attitude are nothing short of glowing, and absolute star of a kids. therein lies the difference. And he was a aground sport and physical freak.

Like Sam F (another who looked at other options) he took until at least 22 to find his absolute feet in footy.

Settle StIck
I am not blaming Sweeney, it's not his fault we drafted him.... Yes I agree he had some definite talent in some areas as I stated, that alone should NOT have got him drafted. Talent + Discipline = performance

That's the problem on this forum, most people just get emotional and defensive without consideration. StK has a long tradition of being unprofessional in its approach (leading to 26 wooden spoons) the lack of process has made us a laughing stock! Ie/the hiring of Blight...... Thommo knew this an bent over backwards to rectify it, Lyon took it a further step, now SW. We are in most ways a better club!

Except RECRUITING!!!



Not

Lovett would of won us a flag.... Come on!! Have you actually checked out his career, he wasn't that F'n good!! He was even average in an average team.... Never figured in any B&F awards, no other accolades, he was a well known prick!! Overrated!! And his career will be remembered as it should be. The decision to draft him does not even have to be debated?!

Notice you never mentioned Cousins in your ACTUAL stars who had trouble off field

However that group can never be questioned with their attitude towards footy. Look at the fitness/physiques/effort levels of all those players... Generally extraordinary..... Guys like Lovett are underachievers for a reason, they show glimpses, but are not disciplined enough to maintain effort .... Form is fleeting

I couldn't give a rats what an AFL player does in his own time, as long as it doesn't effect his body, preparation, or performance...Lovett was beaten by Blake McGrath in a time trial.

[BigMart]

P66.... Not sure he was boarding??
As I said, I do know a load of guys who know him, know that he wasn't committed or prepared... And the system spat him out as a result... Not his fault... Not at all, but a poor drafting policy.

Nice you mention Jimmy. Playing Senior footy in the EFL in 2004, premiership BOG. Didn't play TAC Cup because he was involved in grade cricket, Y12 studies and was (like Sam F) thinking of other careers. He is an Ex student from my school, comments about his attitude are nothing short of glowing, and absolute star of a kids. therein lies the difference. And he was a aground sport and physical freak.

Like Sam F (another who looked at other options) he took until at least 22 to find his absolute feet in footy.

Settle StIck
I am not blaming Sweeney, it's not his fault we drafted him.... Yes I agree he had some definite talent in some areas as I stated, that alone should NOT have got him drafted. Talent + Discipline = performance

That's the problem on this forum, most people just get emotional and defensive without consideration. StK has a long tradition of being unprofessional in its approach (leading to 26 wooden spoons) the lack of process has made us a laughing stock! Ie/the hiring of Blight...... Thommo knew this an bent over backwards to rectify it, Lyon took it a further step, now SW. We are in most ways a better club!

Except RECRUITING!!!



Not

Lovett would of won us a flag.... Come on!! Have you actually checked out his career, he wasn't that F'n good!! He was even average in an average team.... Never figured in any B&F awards, no other accolades, he was a well known prick!! Overrated!! And his career will be remembered as it should be. The decision to draft him does not even have to be debated?!

Notice you never mentioned Cousins in your ACTUAL stars who had trouble off field

However that group can never be questioned with their attitude towards footy. Look at the fitness/physiques/effort levels of all those players... Generally extraordinary..... Guys like Lovett are underachievers for a reason, they show glimpses, but are not disciplined enough to maintain effort .... Form is fleeting

I couldn't give a rats what an AFL player does in his own time, as long as it doesn't effect his body, preparation, or performance...Lovett was beaten by Blake McGrath in a time trial.

[saintly]

we wanted Lovett becuase i think it was perceived the saints were slow, and we needed quick fast players and he fit the bill.