2001 Super Draft revisited
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
- B W and R all over
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2220
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 3:14pm
- Location: Northcote
2001 Super Draft revisited
Interesting insight from John Beveridge on the 01 draft
http://www.saints.com.au/news/newsartic ... fault.aspx
http://www.saints.com.au/news/newsartic ... fault.aspx
25 minutes to make a name for yourself like you've never made before.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1365
- Joined: Tue 30 Mar 2004 5:40pm
- Location: Mitcham
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
I like the fact that Bevo saw something in Dal Santo and Maguire that convinced St. Kilda to pounce on the 2 talents. Maguire @ pick 21 back then gives me hope for the next potential star to arrive @ St.Kilda via pick #24.
Fingers crossed.
G O S A I N T S!
Fingers crossed.
G O S A I N T S!
The boy can play and we can build a defence around him that will have respect.
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
Geelong would be spewing they passed up on Dal and Goose
Instead blowing picks on
Bartel and Johnson?!
Instead blowing picks on
Bartel and Johnson?!
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
BigMart wrote:Geelong would be spewing they passed up on Dal and Goose
Instead blowing picks on
Bartel and Johnson?!
Dont see what that has to do with the topic really. I suppose its just another way of somehow bagging the club or is it a poor attempt at comedy?
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
Harsh. Id rate Dal every bit the player of Bartel or Johnson..and I wonder how either of them would have come back from the horrendous broken leg and complications Goose sufferedBigMart wrote:Geelong would be spewing they passed up on Dal and Goose
Instead blowing picks on
Bartel and Johnson?!
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/littlemiter/66sig.jpg)
THE BUBBLE HAS BURST
2011 player sponsor
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
All Australians, Brownlows, North Smiths, Multiple Premierships......
Did you read the article plugger?? Reference of Geelong was from that.....
I tell you what moron
I'd be happy to debate the successes vs failures at stk.... Anytime
Thinly veiled swipe, not my style..... Just like to call what I see and live in reality...... We DID NOT win a premiership despite being handed priority picks concessions and contending for a decade! Poor decisions and some bad luck caused this.
Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood, Sydney, WC....... Successful...... Better managed
Did you read the article plugger?? Reference of Geelong was from that.....
I tell you what moron
I'd be happy to debate the successes vs failures at stk.... Anytime
Thinly veiled swipe, not my style..... Just like to call what I see and live in reality...... We DID NOT win a premiership despite being handed priority picks concessions and contending for a decade! Poor decisions and some bad luck caused this.
Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood, Sydney, WC....... Successful...... Better managed
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
BigMart wrote:All Australians, Brownlows, North Smiths, Multiple Premierships......
Did you read the article plugger?? Reference of Geelong was from that.....
I tell you what moron
I'd be happy to debate the successes vs failures at stk.... Anytime
Thinly veiled swipe, not my style..... Just like to call what I see and live in reality...... We DID NOT win a premiership despite being handed priority picks concessions and contending for a decade! Poor decisions and some bad luck caused this.
Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood, Sydney, WC....... Successful...... Better managed
I read the article. Still have no idea why you mentioned them. Been missing out lately have you? Calling me a moron. Excellent stuff. Dont get the debating success and failures either. All clubs have both and even the most successful clubs have more failures than successes. just the way it is. I suppose as you always see the negative you post like you do. you would have been one fun supporter in the 80's. Luckily we didnt have to read stuff from people like you back then.
Anyway lets catch up for a drink and debate. it would be fun. I could even explain to you what that word means. Name a place and a date. I will cancel anything to meet you.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1365
- Joined: Tue 30 Mar 2004 5:40pm
- Location: Mitcham
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
Reg: Maguire.
I suppose we will never really know how damaging Matt Maguire's snapped leg was for St. Kilda as the team were surging towards Grand Finals under Ross Lyon. Trying to replace him with Dawson was an obvious patch up job and presumably the only option available.
I still remember the joy i felt witnessing M.Maguire towel up Lloyd (Essendon) in his early years patrolling our defensive 50.
I believe Maguire was an excellent pick and an excellent player for St.Kilda pre injury. His ability to get off the ground and control the high ball still sticks in my memory.
Xavier Clarke was not a bad pick either i believe. If there was a bone density test available that could of shown the Saints were negligent in picking him then the club stuffed up. However it was truely tragic to see Xavier and Matthew succumb to terrible injuries. I still can't entertain the notion that Maguire , Dal Santo or X. Clarke were bad picks, and i can understand why Bevo picked Ball over Judd.
Having said that if our recruiting team now can do even better than Bevo they'll be doing well i think.
GO SAINTS!
I suppose we will never really know how damaging Matt Maguire's snapped leg was for St. Kilda as the team were surging towards Grand Finals under Ross Lyon. Trying to replace him with Dawson was an obvious patch up job and presumably the only option available.
I still remember the joy i felt witnessing M.Maguire towel up Lloyd (Essendon) in his early years patrolling our defensive 50.
I believe Maguire was an excellent pick and an excellent player for St.Kilda pre injury. His ability to get off the ground and control the high ball still sticks in my memory.
Xavier Clarke was not a bad pick either i believe. If there was a bone density test available that could of shown the Saints were negligent in picking him then the club stuffed up. However it was truely tragic to see Xavier and Matthew succumb to terrible injuries. I still can't entertain the notion that Maguire , Dal Santo or X. Clarke were bad picks, and i can understand why Bevo picked Ball over Judd.
Having said that if our recruiting team now can do even better than Bevo they'll be doing well i think.
GO SAINTS!
The boy can play and we can build a defence around him that will have respect.
- Little Dozer
- Club Player
- Posts: 855
- Joined: Tue 11 Jul 2006 4:44pm
- Location: Forward Pocket, Outer side, Linton Street end or bay 38 Waverley
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
The decision that cost us multiple premierships was taking Ball over Judd.
Are we waiting for a saviour?
I'm so sick of waiting!
I've been waiting my whole life!
This is a new day!
I'm so sick of waiting!
I've been waiting my whole life!
This is a new day!
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
that one selection would have us currently sitting on 3 flags, not still just the 1..Little Dozer wrote:The decision that cost us multiple premierships was taking Ball over Judd.
before all the arguments about all the other what ifs and variables, my point being, keep every other thing constant (including Judds form since he's been at Carlton, which would've been our '09 & '10 flag years), just swap the 2 players.. Back to back flags.
- Dr Spaceman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14102
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 11:07pm
- Location: Newtown Institute of Saintology
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
What ifs & variables:Sobraz wrote:that one selection would have us currently sitting on 3 flags, not still just the 1..Little Dozer wrote:The decision that cost us multiple premierships was taking Ball over Judd.
before all the arguments about all the other what ifs and variables, my point being, keep every other thing constant (including Judds form since he's been at Carlton, which would've been our '09 & '10 flag years), just swap the 2 players.. Back to back flags.
GT may have driven him so hard in the early years that his shoulders may have simply dropped off.
Result? Still only 1 flag.
- skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 16895
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3583 times
- Been thanked: 2852 times
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
RE Maguire
people forget that he had been horribly out of form for well over a season b4 he did his leg. The rule changes RE spoilong more or less sunk him I think
people forget that he had been horribly out of form for well over a season b4 he did his leg. The rule changes RE spoilong more or less sunk him I think
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
While we're changing history, why don't we pick up Hird, Carey, Voss, Buckley, Franklin and Gary Ablett Jr, using a variety of legal and illegal methods, and then we could have won ten flags in a row!Sobraz wrote:keep every other thing constant (including Judds form since he's been at Carlton, which would've been our '09 & '10 flag years), just swap the 2 players.. Back to back flags.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12421
- Joined: Tue 24 Mar 2009 11:05pm
- Location: St Kilda
- Has thanked: 296 times
- Been thanked: 55 times
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
Chris Judd has his wife as an employee of VISY, he's an employee of VISY and his pets are probably on 3 mill each so unless Lin Fox gave out checks for Judds great ambassadorial role of warming cafe seats for the company we would have had to sell all our stars anyway.
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3465
- Joined: Fri 29 Oct 2004 1:01pm
- Has thanked: 91 times
- Been thanked: 162 times
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
Exactly. The tragedy isn't selecting Ball. It's Ball's adductor muscles. X's hammies and Gooses mangled leg don't help either.Dr Spaceman wrote:GT may have driven [Judd] so hard in the early years that his shoulders may have simply dropped off.
Despite all that, we still have two multiple-AAs from that draft more than a decade later. We did well there. The next ten drafts, not so much. Two AA players in ten drafts, one who just fled. If anything hurt the clubs chances at a flag, it's that.
Yeah nah pleasing positive
- st_Trav_ofWA
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8886
- Joined: Wed 13 Sep 2006 7:10pm
- Location: Perth
- Contact:
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
i always laugh at the "if we had picked Judd we would have won 3 flags" rubbish ... fact is Ball was every bit the player Judd was until the OP killed him ... Judd at the same time suffered from the same curse of OP big differance was the $$ the WCE had on hand to manage him through his OP meant Judd came back stronger then ever the two bit penny pinching resorces we had to manage Ball through his OP did more harm then good ... in my opinion had we taken Judd the result would be almost exactly the same for us
"The team that wins in the most positions and makes the least amount of mistakes, usually wins the game." -- Allan Jeans
http://westernsaints.wordpress.com/
http://westernsaints.wordpress.com/
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
st_Trav_ofWA wrote:i always laugh at the "if we had picked Judd we would have won 3 flags" rubbish ... fact is Ball was every bit the player Judd was until the OP killed him ... Judd at the same time suffered from the same curse of OP big differance was the $$ the WCE had on hand to manage him through his OP meant Judd came back stronger then ever the two bit penny pinching resorces we had to manage Ball through his OP did more harm then good ... in my opinion had we taken Judd the result would be almost exactly the same for us
As good as Ball was early he was still a fair bit short of Judd.
- st_Trav_ofWA
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8886
- Joined: Wed 13 Sep 2006 7:10pm
- Location: Perth
- Contact:
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
to an extent yes but its impossible to say how good Ball could have been at a club like WCE where his condition would have been spotted earlier and treated better just like its impossible to say how Judd would have turned out if he was pushed beyond his limit and the limites resources we had to treat him ....plugger66 wrote:st_Trav_ofWA wrote:i always laugh at the "if we had picked Judd we would have won 3 flags" rubbish ... fact is Ball was every bit the player Judd was until the OP killed him ... Judd at the same time suffered from the same curse of OP big differance was the $$ the WCE had on hand to manage him through his OP meant Judd came back stronger then ever the two bit penny pinching resorces we had to manage Ball through his OP did more harm then good ... in my opinion had we taken Judd the result would be almost exactly the same for us
As good as Ball was early he was still a fair bit short of Judd.
the real thing that cost us flags was Craig Starcvich and the fact we prefered to turn a profit each year over spending mony on resources to better manage players and prevent injurys
"The team that wins in the most positions and makes the least amount of mistakes, usually wins the game." -- Allan Jeans
http://westernsaints.wordpress.com/
http://westernsaints.wordpress.com/
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
st_Trav_ofWA wrote:to an extent yes but its impossible to say how good Ball could have been at a club like WCE where his condition would have been spotted earlier and treated better just like its impossible to say how Judd would have turned out if he was pushed beyond his limit and the limites resources we had to treat him ....plugger66 wrote:st_Trav_ofWA wrote:i always laugh at the "if we had picked Judd we would have won 3 flags" rubbish ... fact is Ball was every bit the player Judd was until the OP killed him ... Judd at the same time suffered from the same curse of OP big differance was the $$ the WCE had on hand to manage him through his OP meant Judd came back stronger then ever the two bit penny pinching resorces we had to manage Ball through his OP did more harm then good ... in my opinion had we taken Judd the result would be almost exactly the same for us
As good as Ball was early he was still a fair bit short of Judd.
the real thing that cost us flags was Craig Starcvich and the fact we prefered to turn a profit each year over spending mony on resources to better manage players and prevent injurys
Now that I agree with. I suppose thats what happens when you club has a huge debt.
- Dave McNamara
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5709
- Joined: Wed 21 Sep 2011 2:44pm
- Location: Slotting another one from 94.5m out. Opposition flood? Bring it on...! Keep the faith Saintas!
- Has thanked: 80 times
- Been thanked: 74 times
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
X ahead of Jimmy Bartel (though no fault of X's).Sobraz wrote:that one selection would have us currently sitting on 3 flags, not still just the 1...
Owl over Cyril would have cost us '09/10. That said, we needed a ruckman, so I can totally see why we went with Owl. Lets see long term anyway... Owl may yet surprise a few on here and end up with some Saintas permeirship medallions round his neck...
Bill Stephenson's knee... cost us probably in '62, '64, definitely in '65, would have won '66 by 5 goals plus , and '67 would have been on the cards. Uncle's avatar shows how good Stevo was...
Lazar's knee, Spider's shoulder, personal family tragedies for Buckets and Cuz in GF week... '97.It says a lot about Bill Stephenson that when Tony Lockett arrived at St Kilda he reminded old Saint fans of Stephenson’s brief time in front of goals...
...Stephenson recalled in later years that when he collapsed with the knee injury he loudly said “I’m buggered!” and Bomber ruckman Don McKenzie who had been shifted onto him after two full-backs had already been disposed of, responded “thank Christ for that.”
The amiable Stephenson chided McKenzie for the remark in later years, but it was a fair indication of Essendon’s relief that the unstoppable full-forward could inflict no more damage on them...
http://www.saints.com.au/news/newsartic ... fault.aspx
The Yabby-Cervi fallout over dress codes, and Bob Keddie going nuts in the final quarter in '71.
The bloody Essendon District Football League and the sooopid 'challenge rule' cost us against Fitzroy in 1913... and the boys starting on the champas' pre-game might not have helped either...?
Rising interest rates in the '70s meant we struggled to service our debt on Moorabbin... nearly cost us our club...
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
This is all way too depressing. I think I'll take a break and go and play in the traffic...
![Crying or Very sad :cry:](./images/smilies/icon_cry.gif)
It's Dave, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me! -------Who?
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hAr ... detailpage
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hAr ... detailpage
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
- mightysainters
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 1986
- Joined: Tue 16 Mar 2004 2:21pm
- Has thanked: 28 times
- Been thanked: 52 times
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
X Clarke is the only horrific pick in my opinion... Soft, bad kick and injuries, no thanks.
Goose was a star and should have been AA and Dal obviously was and is still a star.
Ball was struck down by extremely poor injury management, but his class and ability shone early.
Goose was a star and should have been AA and Dal obviously was and is still a star.
Ball was struck down by extremely poor injury management, but his class and ability shone early.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10134
- Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
- Location: WARBURTON
- Has thanked: 145 times
- Been thanked: 1299 times
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
mightysainters wrote:X Clarke is the only horrific pick in my opinion... Soft, bad kick and injuries, no thanks.
Goose was a star and should have been AA and Dal obviously was and is still a star.
Ball was struck down by extremely poor injury management, but his class and ability shone early.
X Clarke was doing what Yarran is being applauded for now 10 years ago. He was a brilliant talent no one could have known the injuries he would suffer.
NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
- Dr Spaceman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14102
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 11:07pm
- Location: Newtown Institute of Saintology
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
Re: 2001 Super Draft revisited
Fair call CURLY. Prior to being struck down with the soft tissue injuries that were to plague him for the rest of his carreer, I doubt any supporter was troubled by us drafting him.CURLY wrote:mightysainters wrote:X Clarke is the only horrific pick in my opinion... Soft, bad kick and injuries, no thanks.
Goose was a star and should have been AA and Dal obviously was and is still a star.
Ball was struck down by extremely poor injury management, but his class and ability shone early.
X Clarke was doing what Yarran is being applauded for now 10 years ago. He was a brilliant talent no one could have known the injuries he would suffer.
And he wasn't the only player in that era who struggled to stay on the park.