Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
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Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
Interesting article in Inside Footy today from Crackers Keenan.
"There was a whisper that Mitch Brown was offered to Essendon and GWS, but not StKilda. I hope the personal antipathy between certain key figures at StKilda and West Coast was not the stumbling block , but that is the word I'm getting from my contacts in Perth. I heard it suggested that there is a certain iciness in the relationship between former teammates John Worsfold and Scott Watters and that may have been an impediment in negotiations".
If true, it seems to me that Coaches egos continue to have negative impact on players best interests.
"There was a whisper that Mitch Brown was offered to Essendon and GWS, but not StKilda. I hope the personal antipathy between certain key figures at StKilda and West Coast was not the stumbling block , but that is the word I'm getting from my contacts in Perth. I heard it suggested that there is a certain iciness in the relationship between former teammates John Worsfold and Scott Watters and that may have been an impediment in negotiations".
If true, it seems to me that Coaches egos continue to have negative impact on players best interests.
BEAR
Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
Pretty sure Crackers got that nick for a reason.
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
Didn't affect the Cripps trade if true.
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
Just posing the question P66 as to whether this was the reason West Coast was so dogged about retaining Brown. I know that he was still contracted, but it did seem that they put a high price on the head of a player who they refuse to utilise.
I put as much empasis on Crackers opinion as you appear to do, however, he must have greater contacts than you or I, I am just looking for reasons as to why they fought so hard to reject our offer to give the kid greater opportunities.
I put as much empasis on Crackers opinion as you appear to do, however, he must have greater contacts than you or I, I am just looking for reasons as to why they fought so hard to reject our offer to give the kid greater opportunities.
BEAR
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
8856brother wrote:Didn't affect the Cripps trade if true.
We had bugger all choice but to deal with West Coast over Cripps as he was uncontracted. I still feel that we got screwed over that one too.
BEAR
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
I agree. But we still did it. Didn't have to.beartalbot wrote:8856brother wrote:Didn't affect the Cripps trade if true.
We had bugger all choice but to deal with West Coast over Cripps as he was uncontracted. I still feel that we got screwed over that one too.
Ross wouldn't have, would he Clarky.
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
Ross would have done what is right.8856brother wrote:I agree. But we still did it. Didn't have to.beartalbot wrote:8856brother wrote:Didn't affect the Cripps trade if true.
We had bugger all choice but to deal with West Coast over Cripps as he was uncontracted. I still feel that we got screwed over that one too.
Ross wouldn't have, would he Clarky.
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
Tongue, brown, pants
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
We "refused to utilise" Ross and Markworth this year, but that doesn't mean we think they have no value, or that we don't have future plans for them.beartalbot wrote:Just posing the question P66 as to whether this was the reason West Coast was so dogged about retaining Brown. I know that he was still contracted, but it did seem that they put a high price on the head of a player who they refuse to utilise.
Same for the Eagles with Brown. They're well within their rights to have a succession plan in place for their key defenders.
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
bergholt wrote:We "refused to utilise" Ross and Markworth this year, but that doesn't mean we think they have no value, or that we don't have future plans for them.beartalbot wrote:Just posing the question P66 as to whether this was the reason West Coast was so dogged about retaining Brown. I know that he was still contracted, but it did seem that they put a high price on the head of a player who they refuse to utilise.
Same for the Eagles with Brown. They're well within their rights to have a succession plan in place for their key defenders.
Probably Winmar a fairer comparison- listed and retained for a long period but not played. If they offered about 12 first round picks and Kobe Stevens i would have been cartwheeling in the hall on my way to sign the paperwork.
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
Why doesn't pete ask them ?
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
Nah, Winmar's played 3, Brown's played 51. Raph Clarke was the only real comparison on our list, I think.gringo wrote:Probably Winmar a fairer comparison- listed and retained for a long period but not played.
Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
No we wont.andrewg wrote:We will get brown in about 10 months time
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
Why not?clarky449 wrote:No we wont.andrewg wrote:We will get brown in about 10 months time
Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
Alot can happen in a year. Glass or another player may suffer and injur, he may start getting opportunities. He may decide to stay, it has happened to Ryan Okeefe! In saying that, all that might not happen, and we will get him next year. I just think nothing is a given, and i think it is unlikely he will be a saints player ever.andrewg wrote:Why not?clarky449 wrote:No we wont.andrewg wrote:We will get brown in about 10 months time
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
gringo wrote:bergholt wrote:We "refused to utilise" Ross and Markworth this year, but that doesn't mean we think they have no value, or that we don't have future plans for them.beartalbot wrote:Just posing the question P66 as to whether this was the reason West Coast was so dogged about retaining Brown. I know that he was still contracted, but it did seem that they put a high price on the head of a player who they refuse to utilise.
Same for the Eagles with Brown. They're well within their rights to have a succession plan in place for their key defenders.
Probably Winmar a fairer comparison- listed and retained for a long period but not played. If they offered about 12 first round picks and Kobe Stevens i would have been cartwheeling in the hall on my way to sign the paperwork.
Yep fair comparison. One has played 3 games the other 51. One is HBF and the other a KPP player. I see the comparison.
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
we got screwed on the Cripps deal, but the alternative was to let him walk to the draft for nothing which is just plain dumb. WC definitely got the better of us this trade period.
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
If true, it's either because of bad blood between Watters and Worsfold, or maybe WC rate us as more of a threat than most others do and had no intention if making us stronger. I think the former, but either way, they clearly had little interest in doing a trade with us. But, it's actually not too dissimilar with how we handed Ball, except he wasn't contracted.
When it comes to coaches egos, player well fair counts for little. Again, Ball was a similar case and Ross didn't want to just move him on to a top rival, just to satisfy an unhappy player. Talk about unfair compensation all you want, but when a player isn't contracted, you don't have box seat.
I'm actually pro WC enforcing their contract with Brown. He signed it, their entitled to enforce.
When it comes to coaches egos, player well fair counts for little. Again, Ball was a similar case and Ross didn't want to just move him on to a top rival, just to satisfy an unhappy player. Talk about unfair compensation all you want, but when a player isn't contracted, you don't have box seat.
I'm actually pro WC enforcing their contract with Brown. He signed it, their entitled to enforce.
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
I would have thought our list manager (Ameet Bains), our head of football (Chris Pelchen) and our head of recruiting (Tony Elshaug) would have been more involved in dealing with their respective counter-parts at West Coast than the two coaches (Worsfold & Watters).
In fact, I have never heard of 2 coaches negotiating a trade together.
So I think Crackers is showing why people call him that.
In fact, I have never heard of 2 coaches negotiating a trade together.
So I think Crackers is showing why people call him that.
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
In our case, yes, but at other clubs, the coaches have a lot of influence.
Ross certainly did during his time with us, as did GT before him.
Even though Watters has no involvement in trades, we don't know what influence Worsfold has at WC.
Ross certainly did during his time with us, as did GT before him.
Even though Watters has no involvement in trades, we don't know what influence Worsfold has at WC.
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
100% correct ... The coaches coach the team the list managers build for them ... It's a bit like the bs about Scott tuning the club to WA centricLegendary wrote:I would have thought our list manager (Ameet Bains), our head of football (Chris Pelchen) and our head of recruiting (Tony Elshaug) would have been more involved in dealing with their respective counter-parts at West Coast than the two coaches (Worsfold & Watters).
In fact, I have never heard of 2 coaches negotiating a trade together.
So I think Crackers is showing why people call him that.
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
100% correct in theory, not in practice. In our case, it certainly appears that Watters has zilch involvement in trades, but does that also apply to Worsfold?st_Trav_ofWA wrote:100% correct ... The coaches coach the team the list managers build for them ... It's a bit like the bs about Scott tuning the club to WA centricLegendary wrote:I would have thought our list manager (Ameet Bains), our head of football (Chris Pelchen) and our head of recruiting (Tony Elshaug) would have been more involved in dealing with their respective counter-parts at West Coast than the two coaches (Worsfold & Watters).
In fact, I have never heard of 2 coaches negotiating a trade together.
So I think Crackers is showing why people call him that.
I obviously don't know how each individual club operate cons trade week, but do you really think the likes of Lyon just twiddle his thumbs and waits to see what team the football department build?
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Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
Perth media and WC fans think Worsfold is untouchable, but to me he's a grade A arrogant ar*ehole. Bad blood between Watters and Worsfold goes at least back to a few years back when Watters was working in the Perth media and Worsfold gave him a nice put down by telling him that, "To play in a premiership team you have to be a very special individual". The context of the statement was Worsfold inferring that he was a superior human being to Watters and anyone else who hadn't played in a flag. Can't stand Worsfold - my most detested individual in the game - along with Sam Newman, although Newman's not really in the game. He's just a self glorifying media twat.
Re: Did Watters & Worsfold relationship cost us Brown??
Worsfold is a bloody good coach. Wouldnt mind him coaching us.
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