Goddard to Essendon

[SaintPav]

I would have liked him to stay but not for that amount of money, there has to be some commonsense in player payments with respect to the club's total salary cap. However, in saying this I can't for the life of me see why the club has continued to pay good money to Kosi and Gram. These blokes are not our future. Kosi makes Gehrig look like a superstar in the year Thomas convinced him to go again when he even knew his time was up and sadly struggled as a shadow of his former self. Gram is a lazy footballer who struggles to lay a decent tackle and gets beaten too easily.

Fraser made his comeback under Ross Lyon in 2008 after he quit in 2007 and we re drafted him. It wasn't under Thomas.

Gram had a pretty good year I thought so that's a bit hard but he shouldn't be on huge money. Kosi should retire but the club stuffed up when they did his contract.

[SainterK]

My point was they were offered contracts over keeping Dawson.

Now wait a minute........................ if I recollect correctly.................... and I'm prepared to say I could be wrong........................... Dawson WAS offered a contract. It was just not to his liking, not what he thought he was worth......and of course Freo agreed.

You are right...but my point Loris, was that Chris didn't budge then either...and a couple of months later signed up guys for one year deals that really were surplus to our needs and hardly played.

[sunsaint]

What did Dawson leave over?

while i agree with your point about question marks on Peake & Polo they would have been on very little money, Ray was on a bit more, but trying to tie that in with Dawson is a stretch. Have no fact to back it up, but I would say he left mainly for his allegiance to Lyon and a little more dosh at a side that can afford to pay "overs" for him. The latter being the exact same reason with goddard.
But if money and output is getting your goat, not sure you you arent throwing Kosi into that mix as well. (as I scramble to grab something firm to hang onto)

[loris]

My point was they were offered contracts over keeping Dawson.

Now wait a minute........................ if I recollect correctly.................... and I'm prepared to say I could be wrong........................... Dawson WAS offered a contract. It was just not to his liking, not what he thought he was worth......and of course Freo agreed.

You are right...but my point Loris, was that Chris didn't budge then either...and a couple of months later signed up guys for one year deals that really were surplus to our needs and hardly played.

Signed them up yes.............................after there was room left by Zac's refusal................. also by that time there wasn't much pickings left in the AFL barrel. I was pleased that Peake was signed, apart from his kicking I felt he had really was starting to find his spot at the Saints at the end of 2011. Sadly just he didn't produce this year the same endeavour............... could be any number of reasons for this.................. bit like his modus operandi at Freo...................... promised at times, lookd to be getting to his potential, then dropped off again. Might be just part of his character. Or it could be different coaches and game plans.

[Gershwin]

Do we get a compensation pick this year or next year?

I'll answer my own question.
I would appear that we will not get the compensation pick this year.

We will get the pick this year, FA compensation picks cannot be "banked"

Are you sure?

This is in the paper:
"MELBOURNE will have three of the first 13 selections in this year's national draft after the AFL ruled out priority picks.

In addition to pick No.3 for finishing 16th, the Demons will have two first-round picks as compensation for losing 2009 No.1 overall pick Tom Scully to Greater Western Sydney last year.

The Western Bulldogs will also pick twice in the first six having activated their compensation pick for losing Callan Ward to the Giants.

GWS will pick first, with fellow expansion team Gold Coast having choice No.2.

Melbourne will have pick Nos.4 and 13 before any 2012 finals team comes to the table for the national draft on the Gold Coast on November 22.

The Giants are the only other club to choose twice in the first round, with pick No.20, the result of a complex deal last year to land Phil Davis that ensured the slot immediately after Adelaide.

Premier Sydney rounds out the first round with pick No.22, while the Brisbane Lions have a compensation choice at No.23 for losing Michael Rischitelli to the Suns.

The only other trades that fall outside reverse ladder order are Richmond landing pick No.29 in compensation for the complex Nathan Krakouer deal, and the Bulldogs with pick No.47 for the loss of Sam Reid.

AFL Draft - Top 10

1. Greater Western Sydney
2. Gold Coast
3. Melbourne
4. Melbourne*
5. Western Bulldogs
6. Western Bulldogs*
7. Port Adelaide
8. Brisbane
9. Richmond
10. Essendon

Your club:

Adelaide: 19, 40, 59, 77, 95, 113, 131
Brisbane: 8, 23*, 30, 49, 67, 85, 103, 121
Carlton: 11, 33, 52, 70, 88, 106, 124
Collingwood: 18, 39, 58, 76, 94, 112, 130
Essendon: 10, 32, 51, 69, 87, 105, 123
Fremantle: 16, 37, 56, 74, 92, 110, 128
Geelong: 15, 36, 55, 73, 91, 109, 127
Gold Coast: 2, 25, 44, 63, 81, 99, 117
Greater Western Sydney: 1, 20*, 24, 43, 62, 80, 98, 116
Hawthorn: 21, 41, 60, 78, 96, 114, 132
Melbourne: 3, 4, 13*, 26, 45, 64, 82, 100, 118
North Melbourne: 14, 35, 54, 72, 90, 108, 126
Port Adelaide: 7, 28, 48, 66, 84, 102, 120
Richmond: 9, 29*, 31, 50, 68, 86, 104, 122
St Kilda: 12, 34, 53, 71, 89, 107, 125
Sydney: 22, 42, 61, 79, 97, 115, 133
Western Bulldogs: 5, 6, 27, 46, 47*, 65, 83, 101, 119
West Coast: 17, 38, 57, 75, 93, 111, 129

* Melbourne compensation picks for Tom Scully to GWS Giants

* Western Bulldogs compensation picks for Callan Ward and Sam Reid to GWS Giants

* Brisbane compensation pick for Michael Rischitelli to Gold Coast

* Richmond compensation pick for Nathan Krakouer to Gold Coast

[plugger66]

They arent FA picks.

[SainterK]

What did Dawson leave over?

while i agree with your point about question marks on Peake & Polo they would have been on very little money, Ray was on a bit more, but trying to tie that in with Dawson is a stretch. Have no fact to back it up, but I would say he left mainly for his allegiance to Lyon and a little more dosh at a side that can afford to pay "overs" for him. The latter being the exact same reason with goddard.
But if money and output is getting your goat, not sure you you arent throwing Kosi into that mix as well. (as I scramble to grab something firm to hang onto)

Just trying to point out the while the faith being put in Pelchen is admirable, I just reckon apply caution.

Hawks defence is their weakness, it's massively undersized though brave....

Since arriving with us, he let Zac get away...not sure what you thought he was worth? Lot of people lamenting on other threads we had no full back this year, I hope he can change his recent trend in this department.

Of course Kosi and Gram shouldn't of been on the contracts they were, bodes well for their managers though, got their clients pretty decent deals....however that didn't happen under Pelchen.

[Spinner]

My point was they were offered contracts over keeping Dawson.

Now wait a minute........................ if I recollect correctly.................... and I'm prepared to say I could be wrong........................... Dawson WAS offered a contract. It was just not to his liking, not what he thought he was worth......and of course Freo agreed.

You are right...but my point Loris, was that Chris didn't budge then either...and a couple of months later signed up guys for one year deals that really were surplus to our needs and hardly played.

Dawson was offered a rubbish contract.

Keeping Clarke, Polo, Peake and Ray over Dawson and hen crying out for a defender all year was one of the worst recruiting strategies I have seen.

[StGoddard18]

Pelchen got rid of Dawson from the Hawks so maybe they don't like each other much?

[saintsRrising]

Sainter K...I can understand your distraught over BJ leaving. I am pissed too.


However to be fair to Pelchin when he arrived most players had contracts and.or extensions in place............and it was tight, and indeed from not just tight but we were heading OVER the salary cap.

If we paid BJ overs this year...for the next 4 years we would just be in a bigger pickle.

BJ may be a good player, but he cannot play 22 opposition players by himself.

[Spinner]

Sainter K...I can understand your distraught over BJ leaving. I am pissed too.


However to be fair to Pelchin when he arrived most players had contracts and.or extensions in place............and it was tight, and indeed from not just tight but we were heading OVER the salary cap.

If we paid BJ overs this year...for the next 4 years we would just be in a bigger pickle.

BJ may be a good player, but he cannot play 22 opposition players by himself.

Who else would we be paying over the next 4 years....


Armitage? Steven? I can't foresee many players commanding that much in the short term.

We lost a quality player for a speculative pick in the draft. Not even a top ten pick.

[sunsaint]

Pelchen got rid of Dawson from the Hawks so maybe they don't like each other much?

that not true as far as I remember he was rookie delisted, (edit) just checked and Dawson hadnt played a game for the hawks in two years
we have done the same over the years, I think blake was last year

[saintsRrising]

Sainter K...I can understand your distraught over BJ leaving. I am pissed too.


However to be fair to Pelchin when he arrived most players had contracts and.or extensions in place............and it was tight, and indeed from not just tight but we were heading OVER the salary cap.

If we paid BJ overs this year...for the next 4 years we would just be in a bigger pickle.

BJ may be a good player, but he cannot play 22 opposition players by himself.

Who else would we be paying over the next 4 years....


Armitage? Steven? I can't foresee many players commanding that much in the short term.

We lost a quality player for a speculative pick in the draft. Not even a top ten pick.

BJ wanted MORE...not the same. Who would you cut so he could stay?

[SainterK]

Agree Spinner.

It was the wrong decision at the time, but I hope they right it soon enough.

Scott keeps mentioning a defender, so I guess we hope there is a decent one out there willing to fall into the new direction we are going...even though everyone is getting angry at me for my POV, I do truly hope the club can turn this all around and make positive moves going forward.

[mbogo]

Sainter K...I can understand your distraught over BJ leaving. I am pissed too.


However to be fair to Pelchin when he arrived most players had contracts and.or extensions in place............and it was tight, and indeed from not just tight but we were heading OVER the salary cap.

If we paid BJ overs this year...for the next 4 years we would just be in a bigger pickle.

BJ may be a good player, but he cannot play 22 opposition players by himself.

Who else would we be paying over the next 4 years....


Armitage? Steven? I can't foresee many players commanding that much in the short term.

We lost a quality player for a speculative pick in the draft. Not even a top ten pick.

Apparently we are somehow to see this position as a WINNING situation ... somehow it seems a hollow victory already.

[Dr Spaceman]

Sainter K...I can understand your distraught over BJ leaving. I am pissed too.


However to be fair to Pelchin when he arrived most players had contracts and.or extensions in place............and it was tight, and indeed from not just tight but we were heading OVER the salary cap.

If we paid BJ overs this year...for the next 4 years we would just be in a bigger pickle.

BJ may be a good player, but he cannot play 22 opposition players by himself.

Who else would we be paying over the next 4 years....


Armitage? Steven? I can't foresee many players commanding that much in the short term.

We lost a quality player for a speculative pick in the draft. Not even a top ten pick.

Maybe we're just creating a bit of flexibility to be able to bring in players from other clubs. Players that may help us meet certain needs. Players that may help us achieve some level of success while the likes of Roo, Lenny, Fisher, Dal & Milney are still around. While some may talk about a rebuild taking 5 or more years, I'm sure those blokes aren't quite prepared to view the next few years as a write-off.

Hawthorn have been able to go after Hale, Burgoyne & Gibson while we've had to settle for low cost discards such as Peake, Polo & Gamble. Obviously the Hawks had cap room and we did not.

Remember we have been a club that has in recent years been unable to participate in the pre season draft due to being on the limit of our salary cap.

[8856brother]

Who went at 3 in Goddards draft? That's who we should have got. Remember that we were gifted Goddard on a plate by the Blues cheating. You win some. You lose some. Be happy for the service we got. We were actually fortunate to get that.

[SaintPav]

Sainter K...I can understand your distraught over BJ leaving. I am pissed too.


However to be fair to Pelchin when he arrived most players had contracts and.or extensions in place............and it was tight, and indeed from not just tight but we were heading OVER the salary cap.

If we paid BJ overs this year...for the next 4 years we would just be in a bigger pickle.

BJ may be a good player, but he cannot play 22 opposition players by himself.

Who else would we be paying over the next 4 years....


Armitage? Steven? I can't foresee many players commanding that much in the short term.

We lost a quality player for a speculative pick in the draft. Not even a top ten pick.

Apparently we are somehow to see this position as a WINNING situation ... somehow it seems a hollow victory already.

Take a longer term view.

BTW, what's with people's obsession with Che Guevara? He was a tyrant and a mass murderer. I don't get it.

[SainterK]

I love that sentiment Doc, but if we planning to have some level of success, I'd have thought BJ would of been a better age to build around at 27 than some of the 30+ guys you've mentioned.

I truly hope we pick up some surprises during trade week, but in a way, if we do...I really do hope we are still as strong as we were prior to today without him.

I mean getting a decent full back and a ruckman as soon as this year is great, but we're a quality player short elsewhere now.

Ah well, not much to do now...resigning myself to it as you wisely suggested.

[kaos theory]

Sainter K...I can understand your distraught over BJ leaving. I am pissed too.


However to be fair to Pelchin when he arrived most players had contracts and.or extensions in place............and it was tight, and indeed from not just tight but we were heading OVER the salary cap.

If we paid BJ overs this year...for the next 4 years we would just be in a bigger pickle.

BJ may be a good player, but he cannot play 22 opposition players by himself.

Who else would we be paying over the next 4 years....


Armitage? Steven? I can't foresee many players commanding that much in the short term.

We lost a quality player for a speculative pick in the draft. Not even a top ten pick.

Apparently we are somehow to see this position as a WINNING situation ... somehow it seems a hollow victory already.

Bollocks!

So the reasoning of some here is that because you can't think of another player to pay a lot of money to, you would like to piss it all up against the wall now on a massive long terom contract on a 27 yo player who has done sfa for the last two yrs.

yep that will get us a premiership team

[Dr Spaceman]

I love that sentiment Doc, but if we planning to have some level of success, I'd have thought BJ would of been a better age to build around at 27 than some of the 30+ guys you've mentioned.

I truly hope we pick up some surprises during trade week, but in a way, if we do...I really do hope we are still as strong as we were prior to today without him.

I mean getting a decent full back and a ruckman as soon as this year is great, but we're a quality player short elsewhere now.

Ah well, not much to do now...resigning myself to it as you wisely suggested.

Cheers K.

Let's hope the "great decision" supporters and the "shocking decision" supporters can all meet up in a happy place in the not too distant future 

[Bernard Shakey]

Agree Spinner.

It was the wrong decision at the time, but I hope they right it soon enough.

Scott keeps mentioning a defender, so I guess we hope there is a decent one out there willing to fall into the new direction we are going...even though everyone is getting angry at me for my POV, I do truly hope the club can turn this all around and make positive moves going forward.

The club has made a positive move, we are looking at the team as a whole and not greedy individuals.

[saintkid]

I would have liked him to stay but not for that amount of money, there has to be some commonsense in player payments with respect to the club's total salary cap. However, in saying this I can't for the life of me see why the club has continued to pay good money to Kosi and Gram. These blokes are not our future. Kosi makes Gehrig look like a superstar in the year Thomas convinced him to go again when he even knew his time was up and sadly struggled as a shadow of his former self. Gram is a lazy footballer who struggles to lay a decent tackle and gets beaten too easily.

Fraser made his comeback under Ross Lyon in 2008 after he quit in 2007 and we re drafted him. It wasn't under Thomas.

Gram had a pretty good year I thought so that's a bit hard but he shouldn't be on huge money. Kosi should retire but the club stuffed up when they did his contract.

Sorry you are right SaintPav it was in 2008 under Lyon that Gehrig had his last year.

[Richter]

My point was they were offered contracts over keeping Dawson.

Rubbish. Your point is flawed. They were on cut-price minimum deals. You are going to have a set number of players on your list. If Polo on minimum wage was not there then Jo Bloggs on minimum wage would have been instead.

It was not Polo or Joe Bloggs vs Zac

If was Zac on higher money vs chopping someone at the top's salary.

Or are you making the ludicrous proposal that we play several players short? Or if not that you recruit absolute bozos merely to balance the book?

We did play short by two players on the main list this year. Was part of the reason why we could elevate Sam D without anyone being on the LTI list.

[mbogo]

Sainter K...I can understand your distraught over BJ leaving. I am pissed too.
Who else would we be paying over the next 4 years....
Armitage? Steven? I can't foresee many players commanding that much in the short term.
We lost a quality player for a speculative pick in the draft. Not even a top ten pick.

Apparently we are somehow to see this position as a WINNING situation ... somehow it seems a hollow victory already.

Take a longer term view.
BTW, what's with people's obsession with Che Guevara? He was a tyrant and a mass murderer. I don't get it.

Well - yeah we have to now - don't worry about the footy for three or more years ..
Hey if you want to know about Che - start with wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara
But you have to realise that people that like him probably are not obsessively supportive of current politics either. BTW would you say that George Bush was a tyrant and Mass Murderer? How was Che a Tyrant?