Scott Watters

[Con Gorozidis]

hate to change the subject - but to Sainter K - out of interest if BJ leaves who will you put in his cloud? Seany D?
Or will you make it a surprise?

[samoht]

He must be one of those weird, nuff nuff fans who think of the most nuff nuff stuff about football.

If nuff, nuff means I'm not ignoring the facts (re: us going backwards year after year under RL- when that's what was clearly and factually happening) - then yes. I'm gladly a nuff, nuff fan as opposed to a "bury your head in the sand and ignore the facts" fan .

Whilst I'm being taken to task, someone had posted,above, that RL improved himself and us over time (when the exact opposite happened) - so I'm sorry if I disabused him and other fans of RL, but someone had to state the facts.

I'm not a fan of RL, but I don't dislike RL or anyone for that matter and wheareas some posters like to malign those that they disagree with, I like to steer clear from that silly stuff - I'm just stating the facts ..
and I agree with SainterK above - good post !

We're all Sainters. let;s disagree in a civil way !

Okay im happy to do it in a civil way, How did we go "backwards year are year under RL"?

Fact
2009 - 20 wins Season Proper
2010 - 15 wins
2011 - 12 wins
Were we improving or going backwards, year after year, under RL ?

SainterK and I looked at the facts above and deemed that we were going backwards.

[dragit]

Why are you starting from 2009?

[samoht]

Why are you starting from 2009?

The RL years. I was trying to disabuse a few people who thought that SW had big shoes to fill.
Fact is RL shoes were getting smaller year by year.

[dragit]

Why are you starting from 2009?

RL

2007

[clarky449]

2007- Ross Lyon apoointed coach, finished 9th.
2008- Finished top 4, made prelim. Had to bridge the gap between Geelong and Hawthorn
2009- Won 20 games, lost Grand Final
2010- Drew the first Grand Final, lost the replay.
2011- Very hard to back up another Grand Final appearance. Players older and losing there best touch.


This is embarrasing....

[samoht]

Still - 2009 - 20 wins
2010 - 15 wins
2011 - 12 wins and a pathetic %

We were in fact sliding, the longer RL coached us !!
I'm not denigrating him - he went close, but then we started going backwards.

Geelong had an old list last year (plus Ottens, I suppose, which helped a little) and their newly installed coach didn't do too bad.

[clarky449]

Still - 2009 - 20 wins
2010 - 15 wins
2011 - 12 wins and a pathetic %

We were in fact sliding, the longer RL coached us !!

Geelong had an old list last year (plus Ottens, I suppose, which helped a little) and their newly installed coach didn't do too bad.

Oh God....
Geelong were one of the greatest teams ever. In that case, why didnt Scott Watters win a Grand Final this year?

Our playing group got old and lost there best footy. Even look at this year, many players have not again reached their best football, like they did in 2009 etc. What happend when teams get old.

[samoht]

The fact that SW arrested our decline and improved our % wasn't a bad effort, all the same.

[Teflon]

Ive enjoyed the discussion - some good points Samoht.

Was Lyon really taking us backwards though or were we simply hitting our playing power peak and naturally coming down the other side? are Freo simply hitting theirs now? as others have said.........are we overstating the genius of Lyon and coaches in general? and if so, does it simply mean that what you really want from a coach is the right plan coinciding at that exact right time with a list heading North development wise and not south?

We cant know for sure - Lyon hasnt built a side yet so we dont know.
Malthouse has been to the bottom and come back up again....I detest the guy but feel he can coach. Clarkson too has been in the wilderness a bit....won a flag......gone awol again but come back again.....I think he must be ok.

It is true Watters arrested the slide to a degree although,some would argue the wins against quality have continued to slide - had we put together a few mor Sydney typewins against top 8 or 4 quality Id have said........."hang on"..

[dragit]

If we want to talk facts…
We have literally gone down the ladder 3 spots and missed the finals by 2 clear games…
Not sure that could be called arresting decline, we've drifted 3 spots further down, just like last year.
Brilliant percentage though, we can all bask in that, we smashed Freo in % terms.

[battye]

Jury is still out on Watters. The picture will be clearer in 2 or 3 years time. But anyone giving 6, 7, 8 out of 10 for this year... is settling for mediocrity I reckon.

We missed out on the finals with an experienced list which, while collectively past their peak, should still have comfortably made the eight. The Sydney win is the only one of note. We lost matches against rubbish teams and that is inexcusable.

I'll give a 4 out of 10, and that is being a bit generous because I have a soft spot for seeing bits of the attacking style which made 2004 so great.

[Teflon]

Jury is still out on Watters. The picture will be clearer in 2 or 3 years time. But anyone giving 6, 7, 8 out of 10 for this year... is settling for mediocrity I reckon.

We missed out on the finals with an experienced list which, while collectively past their peak, should still have comfortably made the eight. The Sydney win is the only one of note. We lost matches against rubbish teams and that is inexcusable.

I'll give a 4 out of 10, and that is being a bit generous because I have a soft spot for seeing bits of the attacking style which made 2004 so great.

yeah good post - think 6+ is definately being generous.

[andrewg]

Won same amount of games this year than last with young players and new hope watters gets a 7/10 Ross 2011 gets a 2/10 would have been 3/10 if he didn't play dempster forward in the final.

[mad saint guy]

He is brilliant at dealing with the media and fans, has shifted our game plan for the better and given kids long-overdue opportunities. I think they are the positives we can take from his first year. He also isn't as stubborn and slow to react on matchday as Lyon.

We still don't know if he has a grand plan that will regain our on-field presence that we have had from 2004-2010 or if he will get the most out of his players ala Malthouse, but he hasn't done too much wrong just yet. We went into the season with gaping holes in our list after a rather reckless, even arrogant display of list management last year. It was plain for all to see that we needed to cut some of the deadwood and recruit several rucks and a key defender but these things were ignored. This off-season will tell us a lot about how Watters and Pelchen will go about restructuring the list over the next few years.

On field I'd give him a 6/10, off-field 8/10. Remember that last year the media hated us and no sponsor would go near us. We were the grumpy, closed-off club riddled by sex, drinking and drug scandals. Now we are much more open to the media and fans and have effectively rebranded St Kilda. The good PR is back, things seem to be improving and Watters tells us that we're going in the right direction, now we just need to see this backed up on field.

[mad saint guy]

If we want to talk facts…
We have literally gone down the ladder 3 spots and missed the finals by 2 clear games…
Not sure that could be called arresting decline, we've drifted 3 spots further down, just like last year.
Brilliant percentage though, we can all bask in that, we smashed Freo in % terms.

We would have made the finals if we had have beaten either North or Freo. I think that we were clearly the better team on the day against Freo and if not for some absolutely disgraceful umpiring we would have made it. With that said, I don't think we have what it takes to beat an in-form Hawthorn or Sydney and we'll be better off next year for starting pre season early.

[cwrcyn]

He is trying bridge the gap between the past and the future, and not merely coaching for his own survival or ego. By giving the youngsters ample game time this year, he has shown that he has a long term view, which is in stark contrast to his predecessor. Obviously, it's easier to have this approach in our first year as coach, but he could have easily overlooked Saad and Milera, for example, and instead played Polo, Peake, and Ray for most of the season. I get the impression that he'll continue with this approach and we'll see Curren and Markworth getting games ahead of Jones and Ray in 2013.

I'm happy with what he's done so far and I'm glad we got him instead of Neeld





.

[Scollop]

He is trying bridge the gap between the past and the future, and not merely coaching for his own survival or ego. By giving the youngsters ample game time this year, he has shown that he has a long term view, which is in stark contrast to his predecessor. Obviously, it's easier to have this approach in our first year as coach, but he could have easily overlooked Saad and Milera, for example, and instead played Polo, Peake, and Ray for most of the season. I get the impression that he'll continue with this approach and we'll see Curren and Markworth getting games ahead of Jones and Ray in 2013.

I'm happy with what he's done so far and I'm glad we got him instead of Neeld

Yeah, we picked the right one in 2011...pity we got the wrong bloke back in 2006

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/teams/l ... 1112313806

[SaintPav]

I cant wait the day Scott Watters leaves the club and see the supporters opinion of him.

I love your posts; your just so contentious.

[SaintPav]

Jury is still out on Watters. The picture will be clearer in 2 or 3 years time. But anyone giving 6, 7, 8 out of 10 for this year... is settling for mediocrity I reckon.

We missed out on the finals with an experienced list which, while collectively past their peak, should still have comfortably made the eight. The Sydney win is the only one of note. We lost matches against rubbish teams and that is inexcusable.

I'll give a 4 out of 10, and that is being a bit generous because I have a soft spot for seeing bits of the attacking style which made 2004 so great.

How is 4 out of 10 being generous?

On the field, I'd give Scott a 7 as a first year coach and a 9 for off the field. He has led the club really well and he shows a lot of promise.

[dragit]

On the field, I'd give Scott a 7 as a first year coach and a 9 for off the field. He has led the club really well and he shows a lot of promise.

1 win against a top 8 side, and maybe 3 more decent wins, we lost 5 close games that we could have won…

7 out of 10 for on field is very, very generous.

[Saints43]

How is 4 out of 10 being generous?

On the field, I'd give Scott a 7 as a first year coach and a 9 for off the field. He has led the club really well and he shows a lot of promise.

4 out of 10 is ridiculous.

The most important thing a coach can do is get the team to work hard. Game plans, whiteboard technique, witches hat placement are all irrelevant without it.

Our team worked hard every week. How much would port, melbourne, footscray essadun, carlton etc supporters love to say that about 2012?

The team worked hard and he has started turning over the list (started moving on Lyon's turnover merchants & sorting the TPP) without getting flogged every other week.

And, as SaintPav said - he has been brilliant off the field.

[dragit]

People really are one eyed.

[bobmurray]

Watters has had to come in and survey the damage done by a bloke who coaches for the now...

He is planning for both an immediate impact and for the future...he is starting from an almost blank canvas

I would give him 5 years to sort out the failures of the previous tenant...

[St Lenny]

We have only ever seen Ro$$ Lyin coach ready made teams. For what ever reasons, as we know, he did not develop the kids. I guess he thought, if he could get us a quick Premiership, all would be good. Very short sighted. Is he doing the same at Freo, time will tell. Does that make him a good Coach? At the end of the day, we never won those Premierships.

Back on subject. Its early days for Watters, but I think he is looking the goods. We are playing a more enjoyable brand of Football and he is developing the kids. He has had it hard in his first year with the injuries we had early in the season. Also his character is a lot more likeable. He has lost his smile, I hope he finds it over the break.