Serious changes needed

[santazzi]

What is the point of this rather extremely drawn out thread...........??? Can't follow it..........Mmmmmmmmmmmm

[gringo]

What is the point of this rather extremely drawn out thread...........??? Can't follow it..........Mmmmmmmmmmmm

Something like lets burn down the house coz the tap is dripping.

[Scollop]

What's the point of this year for the Saints footy club? What was a pass mark for the club as far as ladder position? What were the goals for this year for our 2011 draftees and for the senior listed younsters?

All these questions are vital when assessing where we are at and who plays week to week, but more importantly, where did the players want to finish up at the end of home and away and what was their goal or their target range? I know Lenny and the coach and some of our other players aimed high and didn't put a ceiling on what they could achieve, but I wonder if there was buy-in from everyone

[groupie1]

thought Gwilt was considerably better this week...

he is starting to get his touch back...

Agreed. First year after a knee reco... starting to find touch. Gotta back him in. He's a top 10 players, deserves his spot.

Kozi... poor game, and he can produce them regularly. Always been hard to know what to do with Kozi.

Gram... not good enough, hasn't been half the player he was in the only year he was ever any good - 2009.

But how about having a serious look at Gilbert?


And the idea of Wilkes.... he can be awfully out of his depth, but then do some great things. Great kick for goal. He's either simply not good enough or needs to be used in some role consistently to see if he can produce strong performances together and find a niche. He does look like a bloke thrown into a position in an emergency, which i don't think helps him look like a player. His roles never seem well defined, and he looks to be lacking an understanding of exactly what is asked of him. How about give him 3-4 weeks on the second best opposition forward and see if he can find his feet.

As for Raph... even I've run out of patience with him.

[groupie1]

OUTS: Roo (injured), Gram and Armitage(rest)

INS: Ray, Markworth and Webster

Left field selections with Webster and Markworth, but lets have a look at them against the "deadset spuds".[/quote][/quote]


Have we all forgotten Newnes? And why can't Ledger get himself in? Endurance?

[plugger66]

OUTS: Roo (injured), Gram and Armitage(rest)

INS: Ray, Markworth and Webster

Left field selections with Webster and Markworth, but lets have a look at them against the "deadset spuds".

[/quote]


Have we all forgotten Newnes? And why can't Ledger get himself in? Endurance?[/quote]


Whats this rest stuff. How arrogant are some supporters. Webster is lucky to get a game with Sandy firsts due to injury and you want to play him. Have you even seen him play. Gram wont be dropped either and Rooy will be fit so i reckon you have got none right. Only opinion but looks uninformed to me especially the resting of a player. I dont care who we are playing. We are 10th on the ladder.

[The Redeemer]

OUTS: Roo (injured), Gram and Armitage(rest)

INS: Ray, Markworth and Webster

Left field selections with Webster and Markworth, but lets have a look at them against the "deadset spuds".

Have we all forgotten Newnes? And why can't Ledger get himself in? Endurance?[/quote]


Whats this rest stuff. How arrogant are some supporters. Webster is lucky to get a game with Sandy firsts due to injury and you want to play him. Have you even seen him play. Gram wont be dropped either and Rooy will be fit so i reckon you have got none right. Only opinion but looks uninformed to me especially the resting of a player. I dont care who we are playing. We are 10th on the ladder.[/quote]

But we are in a great position at the moment because we have players banging down the door for selection although.....

We are 10th...

For me Siposs gets a week off as getting subbed surely dictates this. Get him in for the pies game and go from there.

Dunnell gets a full game to see what he can do again. We really should kill the Dogs so I suggest he should put in a good performance. If he gets subbed for anything other than injury he should make way the week after.

I have not really seen anything in Jack Newnes yet although I am all for giving kids games if they play well enough in the VFL. Has he played well? If so then he gets another extended run in the senior side to see if he can add anything to it that makes it difficult to drop him. Pretty simple stuff.

Same goes for Cripps.

It would disappoint me if we were to drop Siposs and replace him with say a guy like Polo. Although I believe Fazza Razza is part of our best 22 and I cannot understand why he is not getting consistent games.

[groupie1]

"For me Siposs gets a week off as getting subbed surely dictates this. "

"Dunnell gets a full game to see what he can do again. We really should kill the Dogs so I suggest he should put in a good performance. If he gets subbed for anything other than injury he should make way the week after. "

I agree with the strategy, but not the tactics. For mine, best to bring a young kid in with a guaranteed 3-4 starts. Assess at that time if he needs a rest or not quite ready yet. Don't like the idea of throwing Dunnell in with a full game against a week team and if he fails to make an impact he's out.
(Maybe this will be his 3rd designated game, and therefore was always planned for assessment), but I truly reckon young guys need short bursts in the side to see how they go - back 'em in for 3-4 games - don't worry if you f*** something up. We back you in.

Senior fringe players to be treated as a horses-for-courses/form-based method

[Scollop]

Whats this rest stuff...................I dont care who we are playing. We are 10th on the ladder.

We should have rested players aginst GC Suns and we didn't. The team wasn't at it's best against Adelaide the week after and we didn't give ourselves the best opportunity to maintain consecutive wins. That places added pressure on the team and the senior players.

What do you always say about opinions when you don't agree with them.....? Ohhh yeah, that's right! 'They'll eventually get it right if they keep repeating themselves'

Well, I finally agree with you!! As you say, we are 10th and we can't afford to rest anyone.

The disappointing thing is that we have a capable list and we have depth, but it hasn't been utilised well this year. The serious changes that were required each week to plan to give this playing list a tilt at finals has been lost. The added pressure that the match committee and senior players and coaches have put us in will result in another lost opportunity. One way or another, no matter where we finish this year, it's definitely time for a re-build in 2013.

[borderbarry]

For mine, based on performance with the Zebras, the first man in should be Raph. And you know I have not seen his name mentioned anywhere.

[plugger66]

Whats this rest stuff...................I dont care who we are playing. We are 10th on the ladder.

We should have rested players aginst GC Suns and we didn't. The team wasn't at it's best against Adelaide the week after and we didn't give ourselves the best opportunity to maintain consecutive wins. That places added pressure on the team and the senior players.

What do you always say about opinions when you don't agree with them.....? Ohhh yeah, that's right! 'They'll eventually get it right if they keep repeating themselves'

Well, I finally agree with you!! As you say, we are 10th and we can't afford to rest anyone.

The disappointing thing is that we have a capable list and we have depth, but it hasn't been utilised well this year. The serious changes that were required each week to plan to give this playing list a tilt at finals has been lost. The added pressure that the match committee and senior players and coaches have put us in will result in another lost opportunity. One way or another, no matter where we finish this year, it's definitely time for a re-build in 2013.

Didn't we just lose to Adelaide who are nearly on top. We played very well but that doesnt suit your argument regarding resting. That huge win against gc means that our percentage will not be an issue if we are on level wins with another side in the eight. By the way how did we go against north after the whole side rested

[Scollop]

The captain was off the field after 2 minutes of play, we were chasing our tails against them from the word go. Milney took half a game before he seemed right and Lenny looked tired as did a few others versus Adelaide... "We got close and we played very well"...well fu#K me, so what!! It was sh1t planning.

This year there have been opportunities for the St Kilda footy club to rest players and manage the list a lot better than what we have seen. It's great for the senior players that tick over more games in their career and their match payments stack up, but if you just want to play each week as it comes and ignore the fact that we have some senior warhorses in our team who are on the decline, then this is where we end up...10th!!

Momentum is key, consecutive wins and maintaining confidence by cementing a spot in the top 6 is key, having the faith to play the youngsters and utilise the teams depth is key, and aiming high and setting your sights on the ultimate prize is key. We lost momentum and confidence by losing to Adelaide. By the way...you are tool

[plugger66]

The captain was off the field after 2 minutes of play, we were chasing our tails against them from the word go. Milney took half a game before he seemed right and Lenny looked tired as did a few others versus Adelaide... "We got close and we played very well"...well fu#K me, so what!! It was sh1t planning.

This year there have been opportunities for the St Kilda footy club to rest players and manage the list a lot better than what we have seen. It's great for the senior players that tick over more games in their career and their match payments stack up, but if you just want to play each week as it comes and ignore the fact that we have some senior warhorses in our team who are on the decline, then this is where we end up...10th!!

Momentum is key, consecutive wins and maintaining confidence by cementing a spot in the top 6 is key, having the faith to play the youngsters and utilise the teams depth is key, and aiming high and setting your sights on the ultimate prize is key. We lost momentum and confidence by losing to Adelaide. By the way...you are tool

Rooy hurt himself and Milne can be like that every second week. lets look at facts. Lost by bugger all away to a top 2 side. Also we rested everyone against before North and lost. Really you need a better argument. Nice finish tough. You are a tool. Wow. Age please.

And also had a bye the next game. Your argument is emotive but really very poor.

[Scollop]

What are the facts about playing consecutive interstate games and the second one off a 6 day break? Sh1t planning is all it was.

Imagine the strut our blokes would have had heading into the bye, had we beaten Adelaide and had the players seen that they were comfortably placed in the top 8. We'd have been 2 games and percentage clear of the clubs that were competing against us for a spot. Imagine the belief in the players minds. The results and the ladder position would in turn generate more belief.

What are the facts about byes plugger? Everyone knows that teams can lose momentum, and the 'facts' show that byes can be detrimental to some teams. My whole take on setting up our year is based on the confidence that winning form could have given the side. They are the facts.

Don't give me some sh1t about hindsight post, or what ifs bs...the whole point about discussing mistakes and analysing where things went wrong, is to learn from it. Hopefully not to make the same stuffups. If you think it's ok to play blokes with suspect knees on etihads surface week after week, and then take them on 2 interstaters and give our older bloke less time to recover, and just expect these older blokes to perform like the 21-26 olds - you are deluding yourself.

What are the facts about Rooy hurting himself? In a company you have leaders and managers delegate so that they can focus on the circumstances where it counts most. If they try to do it all, they risk being caught out when it counts most. Instead of the ceo trying to build new sales channels, imagine if he's servicing some small time repeat buyer that any average rep can handle. Rooy wasn't needed in the game against the Suns. He went out there and did a terrific job against them...but he went missing when we needed him most against the Crows. The captain and the coaches need to understand the limitations of our warhorses, especially the limitations of the 'Rooy of today' versus the matchwinner of years past. The leadership group failed in their duty to do the team thing. Pisspoor planning from the club and pisspoor leadership from all concerned...imhfo

[plugger66]

What are the facts about playing consecutive interstate games and the second one off a 6 day break? Sh1t planning is all it was.

Imagine the strut our blokes would have had heading into the bye, had we beaten Adelaide and had the players seen that they were comfortably placed in the top 8. We'd have been 2 games and percentage clear of the clubs that were competing against us for a spot. Imagine the belief in the players minds. The results and the ladder position would in turn generate more belief.

What are the facts about byes plugger? Everyone knows that teams can lose momentum, and the 'facts' show that byes can be detrimental to some teams. My whole take on setting up our year is based on the confidence that winning form could have given the side. They are the facts.

Don't give me some sh1t about hindsight post, or what ifs bs...the whole point about discussing mistakes and analysing where things went wrong, is to learn from it. Hopefully not to make the same stuffups. If you think it's ok to play blokes with suspect knees on etihads surface week after week, and then take them on 2 interstaters and give our older bloke less time to recover, and just expect these older blokes to perform like the 21-26 olds - you are deluding yourself.

What are the facts about Rooy hurting himself? In a company you have leaders and managers delegate so that they can focus on the circumstances where it counts most. If they try to do it all, they risk being caught out when it counts most. Instead of the ceo trying to build new sales channels, imagine if he's servicing some small time repeat buyer that any average rep can handle. Rooy wasn't needed in the game against the Suns. He went out there and did a terrific job against them...but he went missing when we needed him most against the Crows. The captain and the coaches need to understand the limitations of our warhorses, especially the limitations of the 'Rooy of today' versus the matchwinner of years past. The leadership group failed in their duty to do the team thing. Pisspoor planning from the club and pisspoor leadership from all concerned...imhfo

That is a lot of words for an answers. I gave facts and you gave another emotive response. Worst of all is you think you know more than all our highly paid coaches and fitness staff. Now that is truly funny.

[SainterK]

For what it's worth, I agree that too much respect was given to the Suns.

Percentage is great, but this years ladder may just come down to 4 pts.

A couple of the veterans could of been 'managed' that week to avoid two interstate trips in a row, and the flow on effect would of been felt IMO.

[gringo]

For what it's worth, I agree that too much respect was given to the Suns.

Percentage is great, but this years ladder may just come down to 4 pts.

A couple of the veterans could of been 'managed' that week to avoid two interstate trips in a row, and the flow on effect would of been felt IMO.

Geelong did well last year with some very canny management of the senior players.

[Scollop]

What are the facts about playing consecutive interstate games and the second one off a 6 day break? Sh1t planning is all it was.

Imagine the strut our blokes would have had heading into the bye, had we beaten Adelaide and had the players seen that they were comfortably placed in the top 8. We'd have been 2 games and percentage clear of the clubs that were competing against us for a spot. Imagine the belief in the players minds. The results and the ladder position would in turn generate more belief.

What are the facts about byes plugger? Everyone knows that teams can lose momentum, and the 'facts' show that byes can be detrimental to some teams. My whole take on setting up our year is based on the confidence that winning form could have given the side. They are the facts.

Don't give me some sh1t about hindsight post, or what ifs bs...the whole point about discussing mistakes and analysing where things went wrong, is to learn from it. Hopefully not to make the same stuffups. If you think it's ok to play blokes with suspect knees on etihads surface week after week, and then take them on 2 interstaters and give our older bloke less time to recover, and just expect these older blokes to perform like the 21-26 olds - you are deluding yourself.

What are the facts about Rooy hurting himself? In a company you have leaders and managers delegate so that they can focus on the circumstances where it counts most. If they try to do it all, they risk being caught out when it counts most. Instead of the ceo trying to build new sales channels, imagine if he's servicing some small time repeat buyer that any average rep can handle. Rooy wasn't needed in the game against the Suns. He went out there and did a terrific job against them...but he went missing when we needed him most against the Crows. The captain and the coaches need to understand the limitations of our warhorses, especially the limitations of the 'Rooy of today' versus the matchwinner of years past. The leadership group failed in their duty to do the team thing. Pisspoor planning from the club and pisspoor leadership from all concerned...imhfo

That is a lot of words for an answers. I gave facts and you gave another emotive response. Worst of all is you think you know more than all our highly paid coaches and fitness staff. Now that is truly funny.

'highly paid coaches and fitness staff'... bs...Rooy is paid 3 or 4 or 6 times as much as some of them!!!! If Rooy says I'm right to play, who the f#@* is going to overrule him??? It's a delicate situation and not an an easy one for a first year senior coach.

'truly funny'...is you complaining about 'a lot of words'...what's the problem? Can't you read more than a few sentences LOL

[SainterK]

For what it's worth, I agree that too much respect was given to the Suns.

Percentage is great, but this years ladder may just come down to 4 pts.

A couple of the veterans could of been 'managed' that week to avoid two interstate trips in a row, and the flow on effect would of been felt IMO.

Geelong did well last year with some very canny management of the senior players.

People can argue that we weren't in a position to given our ladder position, but it was the Suns, who'd they had beaten by 100pts only weeks earlier.

[Scollop]

For what it's worth, I agree that too much respect was given to the Suns.

Percentage is great, but this years ladder may just come down to 4 pts.

A couple of the veterans could of been 'managed' that week to avoid two interstate trips in a row, and the flow on effect would of been felt IMO.

Geelong did well last year with some very canny management of the senior players.

People can argue that we weren't in a position to given our ladder position, but it was the Suns, who'd they had beaten by 100pts only weeks earlier.

Geelong did well is an understatement!!! It was purely brilliant planning and Chris Scott had nothing to lose and everything to gain. Getting games into as many players as you can also helps the team at the pointy end of the year. How did he manage to massage the egos of highly paid players and get the best out of them??? It was predetermined and communicated that they would work the depth of the list.

You don't get players offside and you treat your champions with respect when the plan is communicated clearly prior to home and away starting. You look at the fixture, where and when your senior players will be rested is predetermined and a change to your plan is only made if serious injuries occur. The coaches tell older players concerned that they will manage their game time and work the depth of the list, then ladder position doesn't come into it.

In our case it was a lost opportunity and pisspoor planning. We already had Rhys and Ben out of the side so we had no choice with Blake going up to Metricon, but we did have a choice with Roo. Wilkes could have easily covered for Roo against the Suns. The change wasn't made and the consequences are still being felt imhfo!! The club and the coaches need to be firm with our aging list...plan the year ahead for 2013 or risk another nothing year.

[The Craw]

Geelong did well is an understatement!!! It was purely brilliant planning and Chris Scott had nothing to lose and everything to gain. Getting games into as many players as you can also helps the team at the pointy end of the year. How did he manage to massage the egos of highly paid players and get the best out of them??? It was predetermined and communicated that they would work the depth of the list.

You don't get players offside and you treat your champions with respect when the plan is communicated clearly prior to home and away starting. You look at the fixture, where and when your senior players will be rested is predetermined and a change to your plan is only made if serious injuries occur. The coaches tell older players concerned that they will manage their game time and work the depth of the list, then ladder position doesn't come into it.

In our case it was a lost opportunity and pisspoor planning. We already had Rhys and Ben out of the side so we had no choice with Blake going up to Metricon, but we did have a choice with Roo. Wilkes could have easily covered for Roo against the Suns. The change wasn't made and the consequences are still being felt imhfo!! The club and the coaches need to be firm with our aging list...plan the year ahead for 2013 or risk another nothing year.

Tell that to the Richmond supporters.... killed their season.

Biggest load of incoherent tripe I have read for a long time... give yourself an uppercut Scollop you knuklehead.

[Scollop]

Numskull, ninckenpoop and knucklehead...yep that's me...but what's your point?

Richmonds season killed? Do you mean by resting Maric and losing to the Suns?

With Maric in the team it could have made a difference, but seriously, the playing unit at the Tigers can't blame the match committee or the resting of Maric? You don't lose to the Suns if you are a bona fide top 8 team just because 2 or 3 of your senior players are out.

Dustin Martin was missing because they suspended him. Another factor you've forgotten is that GC beat the Tiges in Cairns last year didn't they? Saints were never going to lose to the Suns when we'd easily accounted for them only a few rounds earlier. I mean we fair dinkum monstered them and we'd shown that the new game plan stacks up better than the way we played against them last year...let's all bask in the glory of one of our forwards kicking 7 goals against the wooden spooner and a percentage boosting win against the Suns....wow farkin wee!!

[plugger66]

Numskull, ninckenpoop and knucklehead...yep that's me...but what's your point?

Richmonds season killed? Do you mean by resting Maric and losing to the Suns?

With Maric in the team it could have made a difference, but seriously, the playing unit at the Tigers can't blame the match committee or the resting of Maric? You don't lose to the Suns if you are a bona fide top 8 team just because 2 or 3 of your senior players are out.

Dustin Martin was missing because they suspended him. Another factor you've forgotten is that GC beat the Tiges in Cairns last year didn't they? Saints were never going to lose to the Suns when we'd easily accounted for them only a few rounds earlier. I mean we fair dinkum monstered them and we'd shown that the new game plan stacks up better than the way we played against them last year...let's all bask in the glory of one of our forwards kicking 7 goals against the wooden spooner and a percentage boosting win against the Suns....wow farkin wee!!

How many excuses do you want? Really your argument is emotive crap. Some facts would be nice.

[bobmurray]

Are you lot getting on....

This thread now looks like a "who has the biggest appendage" contest...

I hope we don't see the winner

[BigMart]

I think he has points,,,

Some senior players look tired, could have done with the rest...Lenny in particular...

A kid like ledger could have done with a game, or Ross

The next week Adelaide won didnt they?? Maybe a fresher Lenny wouldn't have been smashed as much by Scotty Thompso ....