Round 17 Team

[terry smith rules]

Very surprised to see Ray tipped out - unless there is a late change due to injury

I really don't like seeing guys dumped after being an integral part of getting us a win last week, Farren will be looking for a new home next year you would think.

Angry about this Ray was a very good player in the second half last week

[barks4eva]

How Gram gets a game ahead of Ray is a total disgrace and just plain stupid!

[SainterK]

I guess up until 90 minutes before the game he is still a chance to play.

Still have questions over Joeys shoulder and/or Dals knee?

It is a tough midfield to break back into.

[Sobraz]

Happy to see Dunell given another run...

I think he'll really develop into a fantastic player... Seems to have great disposal skills, which may be a reason Ray's been tipped out, as his kicking isn't super, although it isn't too bad... Tough break

[MCG-Unit]

Very surprised to see Ray tipped out - unless there is a late change due to injury

I really don't like seeing guys dumped after being an integral part of getting us a win last week, Farren will be looking for a new home next year you would think.

Yep, I thought Ray was one of their best - gave him 1 or 2 votes. With Watters you never know till 90 mins prior to the match, but still very disappointed though.

[jays]

Ray should stay in IMO no reason to be dropped

[bigcarl]

In: Goddard, Steven

Out: Ray, Wilkes

Int: Jones, Schneider, Siposs, Dunell

Emerg: Ray, Milera, Wilkes

Very surprised to see Ray tipped out - unless there is a late change due to injury

http://www.afl.com.au/teams/tabid/16469/default.aspx

Very puzzling.

One can only assume Ray must be injured after the game he played.

[Richter]

Ray is an ok player, but I would hardly call him 'great'. He's reasonably consistent but rarely puts in much above average IMO*... having said that he rarely gives a below par output. (*Excepting the Carlton game when he was BOG)... but it seems that the match committee agreed with me in dropping him.... My reasons...

- with Wilkes out, Dunnell less likely to go as he another potential forward marking target - yes, I know Ray is a good mark, but he is not a forward, Dunnell and Wilkes can both play effectively forward of the centre. Admittedly BJ can also play as a forward marking target...

- Ray's best attributes are his defensive marking, which provide an outlet for rebounding, and his outside work. Goddard covers the former, whilst with his ability to 'run and spread', Jack does provide something in terms of this outside work. Dunnell also provides some outside run.

- Ray got 22 disposals, 7 marks and 1 tackle playing as an outside runner/rebounding defender in a full game
- Dunnell got 8 disposals, 4 marks and 3 tackles as an outside mid/medium forward in half a game
= not much difference in output (proportionally a few less possies for Dunnell, but significantly more tackles too)

- I watched the last Q of the Lions game again on Wednesday - yes Ray was good.... but so was Dunnell...

- I think that it is wrong in principle to drop a new young player on the back of a promising debut. This coaching group has consistently given new young players a few games at least in the seniors.... Newnes, Cripps, Sippos... and now Dunnell... I like it.

[WinnersOnly]

Im disappointed for Farren - but it must be his ball use (clangers) that are causing him to lose his position. He wasn't the only one against Brisbane but his were without pressure - his decisions are poor and he struggles to hit the targets.

[Solar]

ray is stiff but it's important to give then young players more then one game at a time. It's great that we have a GOP of rays level just outside the 22.

Question: When stanley is fit, does he come in as the third tall or does he replace kosi and sippa/dunnell type play that third tall role? Not always the easiest spot the third tall as you have to fight for the scraps and a meium tall who has the ability to run the lines might be better then 3 big talls.

[skeptic]

I'm happy with this

Ray is another one of these players... should be a good player... is an ok player.

Put the onus on him to demand his spot and then keep it. Hopefully Farren is up to it

[Junction Oval]

I was reading on the Saints site, that Watters will give players on-going games if they perform. He is reluctant to rotate on a one game in, next game out, basis. Ray is unlucky and it must have been a close call, but Dunell is the future.

[bigcarl]

Put the onus on him to demand his spot and then keep it.

I thought Ray made a good fist of that last Saturday.

Without wanting to put any pressure on the kid. here's hoping Dunell's output is as good on Sunday.

[desertsaint]

Thought ray was good last week. One of our best.
Last time vs the swans was also one of our better players - certainly better than gram, geary (think he went off injured v swans), gilbert, and gwilt in both games.
A bit miffed.

[bakes]

Ray is unlucky . But could come in as a late change.

[SaintPav]

I'm happy with this

Ray is another one of these players... should be a good player... is an ok player.

Put the onus on him to demand his spot and then keep it. Hopefully Farren is up to it

you are an ok poster.

[SaintPav]

I think farren should resign asap. They obviously have it in for him. Coaches know jack really. Go Faz...

[Dr Spaceman]

Coaches know jack really.

Of course they know him; they've named him

[Austinnn]

I think farren should resign asap. They obviously have it in for him. Coaches know jack really. Go Faz...

Please tell me you're joking, or personally connected to Farren in some way. I'd think this was sarcasm normally, but with this site...

[Austinnn]

Got a feeling Terry might get a stomach bug and Ray might get a late call up. Don't think you can play Roo, Kosi, Milne, Schneider, Saad, Siposs AND Milera, unless one is sub, and I don't see that happening. Plus I think with Tez in Faz out, there's a bit too much youth and not enough grunt in the team. Tez won't have a problem with another week out I'd think.

If not, it's a bit sad for Ray but I'm still in favour of developing young stars at the expense of 2nd tier; if Faz doesn't like it then fair enough but he knows the score I would have thought.

[bigcarl]

Got a feeling Terry might get a stomach bug and Ray might get a late call up. Don't think you can play Roo, Kosi, Milne, Schneider, Saad, Siposs AND Milera, unless one is sub, and I don't see that happening. Plus I think with Tez in Faz out, there's a bit too much youth and not enough grunt in the team. Tez won't have a problem with another week out I'd think.

If not, it's a bit sad for Ray but I'm still in favour of developing young stars at the expense of 2nd tier; if Faz doesn't like it then fair enough but he knows the score I would have thought.

Milera is emergency isn' t he, or am i missing something?

[SaintPav]

I think farren should resign asap. They obviously have it in for him. Coaches know jack really. Go Faz...

Please tell me you're joking, or personally connected to Farren in some way. I'd think this was sarcasm normally, but with this site...

Indeed...

[borderbarry]

I thought Ray played well enough last week to retain his spot. Cant understand why he is dropped before Gwilt and Gram though. Looks like his papers may be marked.

[noob]

Could Ray play Gram's role?

[The Redeemer]

I am happy that Watters is consistent with his selection of youngens re. giving them a few games to at least try and get used to the way it is all played. If worst comes to worst they go back to the reserves and attempt to become better players. No harm done.