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SainterK wrote:I guess the idea of the thread was a discreet way of saying is it the ruckman?
Its a massive worry...Scott alluded to it in the presser I thought...did not look happy with ruck.......I fear we have a ruck rover in a 200cm frame who cant win a tap to save himself.......round the ground is nice........but you canet concede hit outs to advantage every week to try and make it upr round the ground cause u are always reacting and not taking initiative.
We had similar issues last year, and it was Ben that got dropped by Ross, not any of the mids.
I think we were more competitive with Blake in there.
Sure Ben is tall, but if he is getting even less clearances/hitouts to advantage, what's the point....may as well be more mobile.
Okay they had 8 more hitouts to advantage and we lost because of that ?
How many of those 13 extra hitouts that North had I wonder went straight to our advantage ?, but of course there's no hitout to disadvantage stat is there ?
If there was I don't think we'd view ruckmen in the same light (as far as hitouts go).
SainterK wrote:St Kilda coach Scott Watters said his midfield had been beaten.
"[It was] probably one of the first times this year when I really think our midfield lowered their colours," Watters said.
"And that puts the rest of your game under enormous pressure.
HITOUTS
42 v 29
HITOUTS TO ADVANTAGE
14 v 6
INSIDE 50s
67 v 53
Let you decide which was which.
Is it fair to blame the mids?
my word it is we got completely smashed in the clearences . but the decision not to play jones as a hard tag on wells was astonishing to say the least!. and the speed at which north were entering their forward line gave us no chance . our mids especialy dal and bj had no defensive side to their game at all imo.and the decision to play gilbert on wells was a complete failure .how clarke gets a game ahead of simpkin is beyond me. and kosi again did absolutely sweet F A .
Trouble is,who else have we got to play ruck.Kosi struggling big time,Blake is not a ruckman,pinch hitter at best and needed in back half because of lack of tall k/p .Stanley got the spring but i believe he will be developed into key forward,which we will need to replace Kosi,Roo plus not too sure about hamstring problems.Anyone else got a player to put there cause i cant
Ruckman,tall backman need to be priority next year,
North had 5 more clearances after all their midfield and ruck dominance, so I wouldn't say we were completely smashed.
The quality of the clearances is another thing and has more to do with the ability of the clearance players to break clear (with leg speed , quick reflexes and strength) and also the support (and spread) they have from their midfield team mates.
Quite a few of North's extra 13 hitouts (42 in total) actually advantaged us too.
Hitout ruckmen are way over rated (we've won most of the clearances this year even vs Carlton, West Coast, Freo/Sandilands, even with 189cm Blake in the ruck etc..) - I hope we concentrate on recruiting quick midfielders/ clearance players. That should be the priority.
Johnny Member wrote:McEvoy has zero presence. Kosi doesn't win hit outs but contests the stoppage. He has a presence in the centre and it's absolutely invaluable.
I agree.
Kosi actually went in there later in the game and had it appeared to me on the coverage that it had an immediate effect?
Can anyone confirm?
I would do that v Bombers, Ryder can be mentally challenged out of a game, just use his body and get him to wait for the contact.
Johnny Member wrote:McEvoy has zero presence. Kosi doesn't win hit outs but contests the stoppage. He has a presence in the centre and it's absolutely invaluable.
I must watch a different game. Kosi has completely lost the ability to ruck and even do something around the ground. Ben took about 5 contested marks yesterday. Ruck work was ordinary at best though.
I dont take too much notice of the centre taps.. The follow up ruckwork in packs and around the ground stuff is far more important IMO... Aspects that Ben is really flourishing and has massive upside in...
Warnock of Carlton is a classic example of a massive dud player I dont want anywhere near our side (see Peter Street, Mark Blake etc etc..)... Win every tap, but does absolutely nothing else.. Cannot get around the ground, does not get possessions, does not take marks, nothing... just taps... pointless...
samoht wrote:Midfield pressure does have something to do with it too, I'm not discounting that, and maybe our lack of midfield leg speed didn't help vs North. The will may be there but the leg speed isn't.
but -
If we had that old dash off halfback (plus the 120 possessions we used to get just from Fisher, Gwilt, Gilbert, Goddard), then maybe our mids would in turn be spreading to receive and running just a little harder too.
Our halfbacks were our springboard.
Our springboard has snapped in two.
Very good post. I think part of the issue is that we simply don't commit as many numbers behind the ball as we did under Lyon. We actually play with 6 forwards quite often, which means that whilst we do now have targets to kick to, we don't have numbers to mop up and rebound easily.
STRENGTH THROUGH LOYALTY.
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
It seems unlikely that we are going to get an established, AFL ruck from any team, without having to pay through the nose....
still think that Majak Daw might be an interesting addition, he's super athletic, tall, fast, and can kick a goal.... Plus he will struggle to get promoted to the seniors with Nth's current Ruck stocks...
Johnny Member wrote:Defensively, the midfield was appalling.
The run that North had through the middle was extraordinary.
Clearance stats are merely one part of a midfields responsibilities. North zoned up really well through the middle, and none of our mids really tried to take them on and break a line. Defensively on the rebound, our mids didn't work hard enough and didn't tackle hard enough to stop their run.
Exactly.. Two games in a row where our mids and forwards just let their opponents run off and link up far too easily. This puts far too much pressure on the back line.
Scotts right !
I lost count of the times north were able to run the ball through the mid-field with 3 - 5 handpasses . Our defense had to contend with allot of pinpoint passes , their defense was seeing the ball bombed into ours !
Johnny Member wrote:McEvoy has zero presence. Kosi doesn't win hit outs but contests the stoppage. He has a presence in the centre and it's absolutely invaluable.
I agree.
Kosi actually went in there later in the game and had it appeared to me on the coverage that it had an immediate effect?
Can anyone confirm?
I would do that v Bombers, Ryder can be mentally challenged out of a game, just use his body and get him to wait for the contact.
Kosi's ruckwork was farcical, it made Ben look good. At least Ben contributes around the ground.
I lost count of the clear centre clearances they got with Kosi rucking.
Johnny Member wrote:Defensively, the midfield was appalling.
The run that North had through the middle was extraordinary.
Clearance stats are merely one part of a midfields responsibilities. North zoned up really well through the middle, and none of our mids really tried to take them on and break a line. Defensively on the rebound, our mids didn't work hard enough and didn't tackle hard enough to stop their run.
Yep agree that clearances are good but only if you actually control the ball immediately afterwards. North stripped the ball well in close contests and sucked up the non contested ball to advantage.
The mids did not stack up and did not take their chances effectively coralling the defense at times.
Goddard is gone playe another mid like Ledger or Newnes and keep Sippos at Half Forward for that Aaron Hamill forward defensive effort.
Please dont bring back Wilkes. I would prefer Peake because he at least runs. Wilkes is bone lazy and strives only when the goals are in reach, not a true team player in terms of effort. He wasnt alone Sunday.
Midfield clearances and clear winners are needed to make an effective forward line.
You need to protect the ball handler to increase posession efficiency
