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but you guys are kidding yourselves if you think that this throw away line lead to what happened in the 1st half of 09
it wasn't the players, their will, their hard work, their desire to win a premiership, it wasn't the coaching
the motivation for greatness came cause RL said this line that inspired them dramatically with thta line to do all that stuff
the significance of that moment has been clearly oversold... if u think otherwise ur insulting the players and the coach and all the hardwork/talent/skill/planning etc
It may have been a significant statement that came at the right time. Harves going also would have been pretty significant in the way those guys knew they needed to become the senior core. Having the big aura of a great around could have let them off for another year. We will never know what it was that turned it around or what stopped them believing or buying in before that.
OK, sorry I'm on to page 4 of this nonsense, I don't see the point in reading any more. Anything I would have said has already been said by other posters.
I am left with Plugger's bottom line; why bring this up? and BigMart's reply, this is a forum, it's conversation (or something like that)
This is NOT a conversation. In a conversation, people talk to each other and listen to each other. To do one without the other is something different.
This is one fool howling regrets and curses at the moon, going all Don Quixote on us and not considering the responses to his cries. Not one of the numerous perfectly valid arguments on this thread seems to counterbalance BigMart's one point in his head. He concedes nothing, he just hammers away at this useless tiring concept for no reason except seemingly to wind other posters up. If this argument was a horse, this idea would be flogged and turned into dog food, yet in BigMart's head, it would probably be cast in bronze, stuck on a big marble plinth and pitched outside the MCG. I made the mistake of opening up this thread in a quiet moment and wasted 20 mins reading the words of a man with fingers in his ears and eyes closed shouting like a traumatized child "BUT HE WAS SUCH A GOOD PLAYER, HE COULDA WON US THE FLAG!" over and over again.
I wonder - did you actually watch the 2009 Grand Final, BigMart? Care to illuminate how he would have changed the game into our favor without altering any of the other variables that created a season where we were the dominant team of the comp. Perhaps if we could have briefly transplanted him into Andrew McQualter's/Adam Schneider's/Stephen Milne's body as they kicked for goal... Yeah, I'd rather have had a player of his quality on the field than Mini or Eddy but who knows if we'd even have got to the grand final if Cousins had been in our squad.
In a team so full of leaders that the management quietly accepted one of our strongest walking out the door at season's end, where would Cousins have fit in? Would Riewoldt have been the leader he was with Cousins giving lessons aside him? How about Gardi?
I actually think that Cousins was a great player for Richmond, drugs or not. He was exactly what they needed at that time, but not so sure about the Saints. Doesn't really matter, the point is the club were careful, they assessed the risk, decided it was too great, and it looks to have been the right decision for mine. Other decisions they have made have been wrong, but so it goes. I know that the decision on Cousins can't possibly be proven to have delivered us a flag in 09 or 10.
...oh what's the point. What's the point in us even bringing it up? We know what your response will be already. And just to think that all this will not change One Single Thing. There are real problems in the world. Why don't you spend this time trying to find a way for Australia to reconcile with its original inhabitants or trying to find a way for society to accept a way of life that will slow down global destruction, rather than accelerate it, or even just how to win the Saints any future flags, rather than past ones. From what's said in here, it seems that you work in education and have a family? My god man, I know there's such a thing as release, but just how messed up/dull is your real life that you choose to spend so much of your time on such an irrelevance?
Every now and then in the Saintsational universe, we get to see one of the suns Supernova. They inflate themselves, they pump themselves up with bluster, ire, spite and bitterness, they suck in all the surrounding energy and wind themselves up until finally they expose themselves as so illogical and fanatic that reasoned conversation is wasted on them, and then BOOM! They are ridiculed and ignored into irrelevance. Is this the BigMart supernova we are witnessing? Is the red giant exploding?
If this site had real moderators, this thread would have been nipped in the bud on its 2nd page.
Last edited by Austinnn on Thu 14 Jun 2012 1:52am, edited 1 time in total.
Just My Opinion
------------------------------------------------
Initial thought was that the club may have known something we didn't
Was disappointed we didn't get him but felt it may have been for the best
Glad we missed the spotlight/circus that didn't follow
Wondered that perhaps we may have missed out
There were a million reasons not to draft BC
There was also a few reasons why we should have got him
With the benefit of hindsight my feeling is not so much that we got it wrong as u can only make a decision based on the info u have at the time, but if we cld make that decision again... I would draft him.
obviously there are no sure fire answers to what may have been...
- his leadership may have inspired us
- his presence may have stunted the growth of our leaders/youngsters
- he may have got injured
- he may have been the missing ingredient to a perfect season
- he may have relapsed, brought us into dispute and derailed our season
- he may have taken Dempsters spot in the 09 g/f and helped us to 2 flags
all of that is the risk and speculation
I can u/s the millions of reasons y we shouldn't have taken the risk at the time
weighing it all up now though...
would you have made the same decision now that we did then?
but you guys are kidding yourselves if you think that this throw away line lead to what happened in the 1st half of 09
it wasn't the players, their will, their hard work, their desire to win a premiership, it wasn't the coaching
the motivation for greatness came cause RL said this line that inspired them dramatically with thta line to do all that stuff
the significance of that moment has been clearly oversold... if u think otherwise ur insulting the players and the coach and all the hardwork/talent/skill/planning etc
It may have been a significant statement that came at the right time. Harves going also would have been pretty significant in the way those guys knew they needed to become the senior core. Having the big aura of a great around could have let them off for another year. We will never know what it was that turned it around or what stopped them believing or buying in before that.
i think its just one of hundreds of things that RL would have said/done that inspired and motivated different players at different times for short periods of time
this idea that it was this huge catalyst for what followed in 09 as it has been made to be though is ridiculous
Concur was a mistake to go after Lovett. I think RL had destroyed so many running players at st kilda that we were desperate for genuine pace.
No regrets about keeping Cuz away from St kilda. Plenty of rumours about Cuz going back to even WCE grand final days. Imagine the furore if some supposed medical testing after the GF was published.
I think St Kilda did well by and large.
Lovett a mistake but the saints did the right thing in cutting the cancer out immediately.
Bewaire krime, da krimson bolt is comeing to yure nayborhood to smach krime
Dan Warna wrote:Concur was a mistake to go after Lovett. I think RL had destroyed so many running players at st kilda that we were desperate for genuine pace.
No regrets about keeping Cuz away from St kilda. Plenty of rumours about Cuz going back to even WCE grand final days. Imagine the furore if some supposed medical testing after the GF was published.
I think St Kilda did well by and large.
Lovett a mistake but the saints did the right thing in cutting the cancer out immediately.
Going after Lovett wasn't a mistake... he was exactly the type of player we needed
What we paid for him though... boggles the mind. Was never worth a 1st rounder
What annoys me about all these pages of "I think" and "I was right"
It all totally flies in the face of what Cousins said himself.
Nevermind that he credits himself turning somewhat of a corner when St Kilda rejected him, and he hit rock bottom thinking he was never going to play the game he loved ever again?
Did nobody on here watch the doco?
Would of been cocky 'it's my divine right to play football and they will all be fighting over me' Cousins that would of arrived at St Kilda, not the meeker thankful desperate for another chance one that turned up to Richmond.
You just can't cut out the Richmond version and paste him in at St Kilda, because we are all products of our experiences, and the experience of thinking he was lost to football forever was pivotal to him getting fair dinkum about stuff even if only for a 1-2 two year window.
If another team had signed Lovett he wouldn't have been out with the same people or at the same places that night..... who knows what would've happened with Cousins.
Everything points to the right decision being made at the time, given what we know they knew, and what they may have likely known.
You really wanna wring your hands?... we should've drafted Judd.
markp wrote:If another team had signed Lovett he wouldn't have been out with the same people or at the same places that night..... who knows what would've happened with Cousins.
Everything points to the right decision being made at the time, given what we know they knew, and what they may have likely known.
You really wanna wring your hands?... we should've drafted Judd.
BigMart wrote:"I have never seen someone so focussed on team performance. The first time he spoke up at a midfield meeting when he arrived for the 2009 season, everyone's jaw dropped. It was like 'this bloke seriously knows his S***'"
I've also been intrigued by the arguments supporting the club on this decision. Some of the most ridiculous statements I have read on SS really. I was definitely a target at the time for disagreeing with the decision to overlook Cousins for a nothing pick, for little salary due to attitudinal reasons... Who is a known Champion. On the way down admittedly, but with three things still to offer a footy club
-Leadership and knowledge from a successful culture
-Proven personal performance and an extreme attitude toward personal success
-outstanding execution of run and spread (particularly gut run)
Richmond got exactly what they wanted from Cuz, leadership, mentoring, performance, membership and smelling like roses after giving a champion a second chance at it.... We dropped the ball
What was even more interesting was just 7 months later STK trade for a guy with a first round pick, give him a three year 1M dollar contract. This bloke was a serial under achiever, known to be lazy, disliked and inconsistent. the fact we gave up so much for Lovett made the decision costly
There is NO doubt that in hindsight a woeful decision was made, I think the lovett Trade was in some partan attempt to make up for the mistake the previous year.
Not surprisingly the list manager and recruiters of the 2008/2009 period are gone..... IMO they cost us two flags.
yep......i went to the dome the night richmond played the eagles in what was nic nat's first game...benny was the glue that stuck the tigers together...he was really the on field coach for all to see.......we f***ed up ...big time......
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
BigMart wrote:"I have never seen someone so focussed on team performance. The first time he spoke up at a midfield meeting when he arrived for the 2009 season, everyone's jaw dropped. It was like 'this bloke seriously knows his S***'"
I've also been intrigued by the arguments supporting the club on this decision. Some of the most ridiculous statements I have read on SS really. I was definitely a target at the time for disagreeing with the decision to overlook Cousins for a nothing pick, for little salary due to attitudinal reasons... Who is a known Champion. On the way down admittedly, but with three things still to offer a footy club
-Leadership and knowledge from a successful culture
-Proven personal performance and an extreme attitude toward personal success
-outstanding execution of run and spread (particularly gut run)
Richmond got exactly what they wanted from Cuz, leadership, mentoring, performance, membership and smelling like roses after giving a champion a second chance at it.... We dropped the ball
What was even more interesting was just 7 months later STK trade for a guy with a first round pick, give him a three year 1M dollar contract. This bloke was a serial under achiever, known to be lazy, disliked and inconsistent. the fact we gave up so much for Lovett made the decision costly
There is NO doubt that in hindsight a woeful decision was made, I think the lovett Trade was in some partan attempt to make up for the mistake the previous year.
Not surprisingly the list manager and recruiters of the 2008/2009 period are gone..... IMO they cost us two flags.
yep......i went to the dome the night richmond played the eagles in what was nic nat's first game...benny was the glue that stuck the tigers together...he was really the on field coach for all to see.......we f***ed up ...big time......
He must have administered them with some special powdered glue to roll over the bottom of the ladder side.
BigMart wrote:with three things still to offer a footy club
-Leadership and knowledge from a successful culture
-Proven personal performance and an extreme attitude toward personal success
-outstanding execution of run and spread (particularly gut run)
Richmond got exactly what they wanted from Cuz, leadership, mentoring, performance, membership and smelling like roses after giving a champion a second chance at it.... We dropped the ball
yeah richmond got exactly what they wanted. the legacy still lives on.
just like east perth got what they wanted with cousins off field involvement.
BigMart wrote:with three things still to offer a footy club
-Leadership and knowledge from a successful culture
-Proven personal performance and an extreme attitude toward personal success
-outstanding execution of run and spread (particularly gut run)
Richmond got exactly what they wanted from Cuz, leadership, mentoring, performance, membership and smelling like roses after giving a champion a second chance at it.... We dropped the ball
yeah richmond got exactly what they wanted. the legacy still lives on.
just like east perth got what they wanted with cousins off field involvement.
Spot on. Good work bumping this thread.
BM loves creating threads when he is 'proven' right... Unfortunately there is no accountability regarding all the things he gets wrong. If this were so, a whole separate forum would require being created to cope with the abundance and frequency of threads.
Here you go. 7 pages of someone thinking they are right, with 7 pages of people telling them were wrong. Yummy.
Not even sure the point that is trying to be made...
Clutching at straws a bit now.... Next we know, Ben will be responsible for Tomcat divorcing??
Does everyone know that Ben left Richmond in 2010 and currently resides 3500k away in Perth?
Are people calling Brett Delidio a Liar
Is Nick Reiwoldt an Lenny Hayes poor leaders for 'allowing' Rhys Stanley to do the wrong thing in 2011?? Maybe that was Bens fault, he probably met Stanley once??
BigMart wrote:Not even sure the point that is trying to be made...
Clutching at straws a bit now.... Next we know, Ben will be responsible for Tomcat divorcing??
Does everyone know that Ben left Richmond in 2010 and currently resides 3500k away in Perth?
Are people calling Brett Delidio a Liar
Is Nick Reiwoldt an Lenny Hayes poor leaders for 'allowing' Rhys Stanley to do the wrong thing in 2011?? Maybe that was Bens fault, he probably met Stanley once??
you do realise he still in contact with the guys and has been melb since to catch up with them
dont open the can of worms in regards to roos leadership. i remember during the lovett case fisher testified that he called roo that night and needed him down there, only for roo to hang up on him. i would argue we had a leadership problem during 2010/2011.
Ben was an average footballer, poor leader on the football field, and was almost hopeless at Ricmond
Brett Delidio and Damien Hardwick are full of s*** and you know best
Ben was most likely on the phone telling Martin and Conners to take a pill
Ben was clearly using whilst at Richmond and was just lucky with testing
I think Ben may be evil and can influence any person who comes into contact with him to be evil.... Maybe he should be crucified!!!
Thank god we dodged that bullett
Or David Arimtage would almost definitely be suspended for two weeks, Steven sacked and Rhys Stanley overdosed.
He would have singly handedly destroyed StK and Ross Lyon and the Football Dept, plusy Nick, Lenny and the leadership would just sat there and watched (possibly joined in such is his power) and been peerless to stop him.
I mean he F***ed himself so much he won a brownlow, and wrecked the Eagles to the point they won a Premiership
