MRP Round 10

[matrix]

glass got off?????
blimey that was a nice bump but contact to the head was obvious and isnt that what they kick a stink up about nowadays???

shesh i thought he'd get a game
no warning, carry over points??
just total dismissed???

[terry smith rules]

As an aside...Kelly hip to the head and Glass no attempt to tackle and shoulder charge to head. Both walk???

WTF?????

Staggering...

The Kelly one is disgraceful. The Glass one even more staggering was no free kick to Green to seal the game for Lions

[SinCitySainter]

Do we get player reports? Of course not.

Clearly we do! Any Fantasy Footy coach will tell you that!
Number of disposals, kicking efficiency, tackles, 1%ers, pressure acts, clangers, dream team points....all measure performance of a player. These are just raw stats and we can draw our own conclusions on performance based on those. But you can bet that players with low possession counts and low disposal efficiency won't be playing senior footy for much longer if those numbers don't improve.

It's not a tough task to assess umpires on a few simple stats.
- Free kicks paid.
- Free kicks missed.
- Unwarranted free kicks paid.
- Percentage of correct decisions.
- Scores resulting from missed or unwarranted free kicks.
This can be broken down by umpire and then by team.

Clear KPI's to be measured against. Non-performing umpires would be sent back to the minor leagues to get better.

This is questionable logic the stats produced about a players performance are purely quantitative and can be definatively assessed.
Did his kick go directly to a teammate yes or no?
How many kicks did the player get through out a game?

Campare that to the qualitative stats you need to assess an umpire.
How many frees did he miss? It is not a simple issue of counting them but of assessing each event in comparison to every other free paid by him during a game. Then you need to assess whether he was in the best position to see the possible infringement. Could it be argued that it should be play on? These are much harder things to ascertain than did a kick go directly to a teammate.

Another point to remember is that currently umpires do a thankless job for little reward. They don't get paid the exorbitant wages that the players get therefore the level of scrutiny of their performance is rightfully less. If we start publicly ridiculing umpires because of missed or incorrectly paid frees then why would anybody do it.

Umpiring is a tough, thankless job which is necessary for the game to progress. We should be thankful that there are a number of individuals who love the game so much they want to do it. Why do we want to make the job worse?

[plugger66]

Do we get player reports? Of course not.

Clearly we do! Any Fantasy Footy coach will tell you that!
Number of disposals, kicking efficiency, tackles, 1%ers, pressure acts, clangers, dream team points....all measure performance of a player. These are just raw stats and we can draw our own conclusions on performance based on those. But you can bet that players with low possession counts and low disposal efficiency won't be playing senior footy for much longer if those numbers don't improve.

It's not a tough task to assess umpires on a few simple stats.
- Free kicks paid.
- Free kicks missed.
- Unwarranted free kicks paid.
- Percentage of correct decisions.
- Scores resulting from missed or unwarranted free kicks.
This can be broken down by umpire and then by team.

Clear KPI's to be measured against. Non-performing umpires would be sent back to the minor leagues to get better.

And you know they arent? Why do people assume nothing is done when an unpire has a poor game. Then people want stuff in the media on mistakes and so on. You know what happens if they do that. people scream that umpires should be seen and not heard about.

[Legendary]

It was just an absolute howler of a decision.

The trip was plain as day, the entire crowd on the city side of the ground saw it and the umpire had clear view.

Bad mistake by the ump.

[Life Long Saint]

Do we get player reports? Of course not.

Clearly we do! Any Fantasy Footy coach will tell you that!
Number of disposals, kicking efficiency, tackles, 1%ers, pressure acts, clangers, dream team points....all measure performance of a player. These are just raw stats and we can draw our own conclusions on performance based on those. But you can bet that players with low possession counts and low disposal efficiency won't be playing senior footy for much longer if those numbers don't improve.

It's not a tough task to assess umpires on a few simple stats.
- Free kicks paid.
- Free kicks missed.
- Unwarranted free kicks paid.
- Percentage of correct decisions.
- Scores resulting from missed or unwarranted free kicks.
This can be broken down by umpire and then by team.

Clear KPI's to be measured against. Non-performing umpires would be sent back to the minor leagues to get better.

And you know they arent? Why do people assume nothing is done when an unpire has a poor game. Then people want stuff in the media on mistakes and so on. You know what happens if they do that. people scream that umpires should be seen and not heard about.

I would assume they are being kept...I just want them made public so they are held accountable. This is one of the areas of this game that isn't appearing professional (along with the MRP).
This shroud of secrecy surrounding the umpires is laughable. One of the best things that used to happen was the "what's your decision" segment on the World of Sports. Each week an umpire would come into the studio and be shown a handful of decisions and explain them...If he got it wrong he said so. No derision, no scapegoats, just an explanation.

At the moment the AFL continually hold these guys to be some kind of super-human performers that rarely make mistakes.
Show the public that they are human and fallible by dropping the lime green curtain and allowing the stats to be published.
Maybe the AFL could take baby steps and publish the stats as a collective across the round or by each game without individualising.

My personal view is that this action would add integrity to the competition that is clearly needed. These days of lop-sided fixtures, inconsistent MRP findings and horribly one-sided free kick counts in a particular city is not helping the AFL. Yes crowds and ratings are up but that doesn't mean the AFL doesn't have an image and perception issue.

On your second point, I am not asking for the umpires to start appearing on the footy shows. There is a massive difference between being accountable and being the centre of attention!

[plugger66]

And you know they arent? Why do people assume nothing is done when an unpire has a poor game. Then people want stuff in the media on mistakes and so on. You know what happens if they do that. people scream that umpires should be seen and not heard about.

I would assume they are being kept...I just want them made public so they are held accountable. This is one of the areas of this game that isn't appearing professional (along with the MRP).
This shroud of secrecy surrounding the umpires is laughable. One of the best things that used to happen was the "what's your decision" segment on the World of Sports. Each week an umpire would come into the studio and be shown a handful of decisions and explain them...If he got it wrong he said so. No derision, no scapegoats, just an explanation.

At the moment the AFL continually hold these guys to be some kind of super-human performers that rarely make mistakes.
Show the public that they are human and fallible by dropping the lime green curtain and allowing the stats to be published.
Maybe the AFL could take baby steps and publish the stats as a collective across the round or by each game without individualising.

My personal view is that this action would add integrity to the competition that is clearly needed. These days of lop-sided fixtures, inconsistent MRP findings and horribly one-sided free kick counts in a particular city is not helping the AFL. Yes crowds and ratings are up but that doesn't mean the AFL doesn't have an image and perception issue.

On your second point, I am not asking for the umpires to start appearing on the footy shows. There is a massive difference between being accountable and being the centre of attention!

Can I ask one question. How do they show these stats? If they show some umpire made 7 decisions and one was wrong it still doesnt tell us which mistake was wrong. It tells us bugger all and keeps the silly umpires in the media where they should not be. And I can assure you the more bad publicity the umpires get means there are less people interested in umpiring so the standard has to drop. I am sure you dont want that.

[Sobraz]

I didnt see the Kelly one as it happened, but I watched the Lions Eagles game, and was certain that Waters and Glass would both get weeks (multiple)...

Both absolutely head high contact, not going for the ball, heavy contact...

Put this up against similar ones (especially from last year), and it shows the decisions are still an absolute raffle (rabble)...

Unless the color of their jumper changed the result.. obviously.

[ozrulestrace]

Was that the moment Stephen Milne was tripped in the first quarter right in front of us in aisle 38, which was ignored by the umpire, and they got a goal?
Thanks for nuthing MRP and your umpire mates

How the hell is the MRP fault the umpires missed a free? Even when our player, Milne, gets off and one of theirs gets reported it is there fault.

he did say thanks for "nuthing", and we are getting no benefit from king missing richmond's next game despite the offence being against milney.

would love if they could re-jig the system so the punishment would be missing the next st klda - richmond game but the logistics of that would never allow it.

Thanks for the support Rosco, I, (she) said thanks for nuthin MRP Plugger 66 because if the free had been paid in the context of the game, i.e. when it happened, it would never have been put up to the MRP to make a "retrospective" decision. Comprendez?

[ozrulestrace]

Was that the moment Stephen Milne was tripped in the first quarter right in front of us in aisle 38, which was ignored by the umpire, and they got a goal?
Thanks for nuthing MRP and your umpire mates

How the hell is the MRP fault the umpires missed a free? Even when our player, Milne, gets off and one of theirs gets reported it is there fault.

he did say thanks for "nuthing", and we are getting no benefit from king missing richmond's next game despite the offence being against milney.

would love if they could re-jig the system so the punishment would be missing the next st klda - richmond game but the logistics of that would never allow it.

Thanks for the support Rosco, I, (she) said thanks for nuthin MRP Plugger 66 because if the free had been paid in the context of the game, i.e. when it happened, it would never have been put up to the MRP to make a "retrospective" decision. Comprendez?

[plugger66]

How the hell is the MRP fault the umpires missed a free? Even when our player, Milne, gets off and one of theirs gets reported it is there fault.

he did say thanks for "nuthing", and we are getting no benefit from king missing richmond's next game despite the offence being against milney.

would love if they could re-jig the system so the punishment would be missing the next st klda - richmond game but the logistics of that would never allow it.

Thanks for the support Rosco, I, (she) said thanks for nuthin MRP Plugger 66 because if the free had been paid in the context of the game, i.e. when it happened, it would never have been put up to the MRP to make a "retrospective" decision. Comprendez?

No have no idea why the MRP was mentioned or did you want King to get off?

[ozrulestrace]

I'm not sure I follow your logic here, all I say is King shouldn't have to have been put to the MRP if the umpire had paid the free kick and we could have all moved on.
The MRP shouldn't be left to do the dirty work of umpires who missed a shocker of a decision.

[plugger66]

I'm not sure I follow your logic here, all I say is King shouldn't have to have been put to the MRP if the umpire had paid the free kick and we could have all moved on.
The MRP shouldn't be left to do the dirty work of umpires who missed a shocker of a decision.

If a free was paid King would still have got a week. The umpire got it wrong and the MRP got it right.

[Leo.J]

Comparing umpires mistakes and player mistakes is like comparing apples and oranges.

An umpiring mistake is a decision.

Kosi's missed goal is a skill error.

The umpires equivalent is a bad bounce which they get to recall.

[plugger66]

Comparing umpires mistakes and player mistakes is like comparing apples and oranges.

An umpiring mistake is a decision.

Kosi's missed goal is a skill error.

The umpires equivalent is a bad bounce which they get to recall.

So that means anytime a player makes the wrong decision like kicking instead of handballing we should have a stat for that. There are plenty of times during a game the player makes the wrong decision.

[Leo.J]

Comparing umpires mistakes and player mistakes is like comparing apples and oranges.

An umpiring mistake is a decision.

Kosi's missed goal is a skill error.

The umpires equivalent is a bad bounce which they get to recall.

So that means anytime a player makes the wrong decision like kicking instead of handballing we should have a stat for that. There are plenty of times during a game the player makes the wrong decision.

How do you know it's a mistake unless you know what the players have been instructed to do?

[Life Long Saint]

Can I ask one question. How do they show these stats? If they show some umpire made 7 decisions and one was wrong it still doesnt tell us which mistake was wrong. It tells us bugger all and keeps the silly umpires in the media where they should not be.

It's not that hard to fathom is it? Compare it to a player that has 30 disposals with 3 clangers...That doesn't tell you which ones are clangers...that is not the important analysis of the stats. What is important is that the umpires stats would be shown and you'd know that umpire A (or group of umpires) paid 21 frees, missed 7, paid 3 unwarranted 2 of which resulted in scores. Internally, the umpire's review would work on the 7 missed and 3 unwarranted frees...Just like a football club would work on the clangers and disposal efficiency of players internally. It's public acknowledgement of a process of improvement.

Showing the umpires are part of the game and make mistakes will go a long way to improving attitudes towards them...Way more than a manufactured umpires appreciation round...what a crock that is.

You often tell posters to open both eyes yet you remain more one eyed about the umpires than any poster about the Saints.

I am not umpire bashing, I just want them to improve and remove this aura of mystery that the AFL seems to impose around them.

[plugger66]

Can I ask one question. How do they show these stats? If they show some umpire made 7 decisions and one was wrong it still doesnt tell us which mistake was wrong. It tells us bugger all and keeps the silly umpires in the media where they should not be.

It's not that hard to fathom is it? Compare it to a player that has 30 disposals with 3 clangers...That doesn't tell you which ones are clangers...that is not the important analysis of the stats. What is important is that the umpires stats would be shown and you'd know that umpire A (or group of umpires) paid 21 frees, missed 7, paid 3 unwarranted 2 of which resulted in scores. Internally, the umpire's review would work on the 7 missed and 3 unwarranted frees...Just like a football club would work on the clangers and disposal efficiency of players internally. It's public acknowledgement of a process of improvement.

Showing the umpires are part of the game and make mistakes will go a long way to improving attitudes towards them...Way more than a manufactured umpires appreciation round...what a crock that is.

You often tell posters to open both eyes yet you remain more one eyed about the umpires than any poster about the Saints.

I am not umpire bashing, I just want them to improve and remove this aura of mystery that the AFL seems to impose around them.

If they published those stats people would then want them to publish the errors. How would you know which side got the goals, which team benefited from missed or wrong decisions. Yes we have the stats you want but it tells is bugger all IMO. And it makes the umpires more important than they should be. And yes i do have only one eye open to this idea because again IMO and bad publicity on umpires effects the recruiting of them at younger levels. I know this with my involvement with the Ammos over the last 30 years. Umpires are harder to get than ever and that is why you see idiots my age to still doing it. If we dont get young umpires it will lead to poorer umpires getting upgraded and hence more bad decisions in the AFL.

[Life Long Saint]

Can I ask one question. How do they show these stats? If they show some umpire made 7 decisions and one was wrong it still doesnt tell us which mistake was wrong. It tells us bugger all and keeps the silly umpires in the media where they should not be.

It's not that hard to fathom is it? Compare it to a player that has 30 disposals with 3 clangers...That doesn't tell you which ones are clangers...that is not the important analysis of the stats. What is important is that the umpires stats would be shown and you'd know that umpire A (or group of umpires) paid 21 frees, missed 7, paid 3 unwarranted 2 of which resulted in scores. Internally, the umpire's review would work on the 7 missed and 3 unwarranted frees...Just like a football club would work on the clangers and disposal efficiency of players internally. It's public acknowledgement of a process of improvement.

Showing the umpires are part of the game and make mistakes will go a long way to improving attitudes towards them...Way more than a manufactured umpires appreciation round...what a crock that is.

You often tell posters to open both eyes yet you remain more one eyed about the umpires than any poster about the Saints.

I am not umpire bashing, I just want them to improve and remove this aura of mystery that the AFL seems to impose around them.

If they published those stats people would then want them to publish the errors. How would you know which side got the goals, which team benefited from missed or wrong decisions. Yes we have the stats you want but it tells is bugger all IMO. And it makes the umpires more important than they should be. And yes i do have only one eye open to this idea because again IMO and bad publicity on umpires effects the recruiting of them at younger levels. I know this with my involvement with the Ammos over the last 30 years. Umpires are harder to get than ever and that is why you see idiots my age to still doing it. If we dont get young umpires it will lead to poorer umpires getting upgraded and hence more bad decisions in the AFL.

The actual errors would be the source of the discussion and analysis programs...just like it is today with the players and errors.
On the teams involved, I mentioned earlier that the stat could be broken down by team...Pretty simple.

The AFL makes a rod for it's own back with the way that umpires are treated...It is a taboo to criticise them in any way...This is folly. The best way to ensure people do something is to tell them that they can't. How many songs over the years raced to number one on the charts once they were banned from being played on radio stations?
Remove the mystery surrounding the umpires and all of a sudden they become human and the criticism will go and more people will think about taking it up.

Culture and traditions are a tough thing to change but I will tell you one thing for certain...You will not change perception and improve attitude towards umpires by doing nothing! You certainly won't achieve it by instituting a token umpires appreciation round.
The AFL needs to be open and transparent about umpire performance. That is how you change public perception.