Lenny Hayes

[saintsRrising]

The making of Jack Riewoldt was the end of Matthew Richardson

Pretty sure that Richmond did not force Richo out to play Jack..

Champions like Lenny you keep.. quality inspires quality. Lenny may play another 50 games.

It is the lesser lights that may make way.

In 2013 the question will be whether you ask Blake to retire for Simpkin....and maybe this year if we get all our players back (though lack ofa FB may keep Blake in at present)

Bakes made way for Geary last year.

Joey may be teetering next year. Will need a good second half of the season.

[magnifisaint]

Have never mentioned N.Burke on this site......

A Thompson perhaps, but seriously doubt.... He did go for one year too long though

Am I the 'resident expert' loris... Or is that just what you see me as, because I don't believe I have ever mentioned that. I do give an opinion, and from what I understand, that is what a 'forum' is about.

I know giving a negative (or what's seen to be) comment on a champion at stk is like killing Bambi for some supporters, but I try to call things as I see them.... And guess what... I can be wrong, often

I know you're not a fan, and the feeling is quite mutual, due to your patronizing, passive aggressive tone..... But please don't make up stuff to make your point.

I was taken by surprise when Burkie announced his retirement.

Geez you're a tosser.

Keep your ego in check

[SainterK]

He looked sad on Game Day?

[groupie1]

" In the same way Armo was stifled..

Who was the midfielder that recently retired that has allowed Armo to step up this year???

Hayes has been our best performed mid this year by a mile, and at the same time Steven and Armo are having their best years to date...

Keeping around older, slower blokes and developing youth are not mutually exclusive... They can (and are) happening at the same time... And it will continue to as Ledger is brought in and Hayes, Steven and Armo keep their spots...

Similar to Tuck of Richmond alongside Cotchin, Martin etc...

The Aussie cricket team is a strange example, as Im not sure there is any real positive youth coming through (batting as you referred to), and the Indian series domination was primarily on the back of Clarke and Ponting, to a lesser extent Hussey... Hughes has been tried and failed, Kawaja the same, Marsh even worse...

I think this is well said.

The only real young-player-game-time-deniers are the likes of Gram and Ray, Birss and Eddy... blokes who barely scrape into the 22 some weeks, miss out others. List cloggers, as they say, are far more damaging to the aspirations of a young player than your veteran legends.

You don't so much get denied a game... but a spot on a list.

[supersaints]

I think Watters has stated, at least once, that Lenny will know when it's time to hang them up and won't have to be tapped on the shoulder. If his body holds up he is a Monty to go on because Lenny certainly does not lack motivation. I for one would be happy for Lenny to go on, far from holding someone else back he leads the newer players.

[matrix]

he looked disappointed huh K
maybe he wasnt happy with his game?
maybe he thought he couldnt keep up?

dunno
if he feels he can contribute next year and the body holds up fine AND he thinks we have a sniff at a chance of a flag then he will play on
i think he will do one more year (2013)
just my thoughts

[Leo.J]

The problem imo is that Lenny is still probably our best mid. And at his age he shouldn't be.

We need the other guys to step up and force him into the second tier...

He doesn't need to retire for that to happen, it's Scotty's job to get more out of Dal and Joey.

Our reliance on Lenny at this stage in his career is unhealthy imo.

There is definately a role for him going forward I believe, but it needs to be a supporting role to our other mids. There needs to be a passing of the baton.

[SainterK]

he looked disappointed huh K
maybe he wasnt happy with his game?
maybe he thought he couldnt keep up?

dunno
if he feels he can contribute next year and the body holds up fine AND he thinks we have a sniff at a chance of a flag then he will play on
i think he will do one more year (2013)
just my thoughts

I think so M, it was when they came back from the highlights wasn't it...

He looked really down.

Critiques himself harshly, certainly can't be praised, and the whole 'if I'm keeping a spot away from a kid then I'll retire' vibe just sums up how unsefish the guy is.

He needs to hold out being too hard on himself until we actually get a ruckman again, personally I think the midfielders have been immense and should be really proud all things considered. He was roving to Maric for a lot of the night, who was doing his best to keep him guessing. A bit of perspective, but I guess he is a champion because he expects so much from himself.

[joffaboy]

The problem imo is that Lenny is still probably our best mid. And at his age he shouldn't be.

We need the other guys to step up and force him into the second tier...

While this is undeniably true, it must also be said that Lenny is one of the top midfielders in the League so if we had someone better we would be 8-2 not 5-5.

[Leo.J]

he looked disappointed huh K
maybe he wasnt happy with his game?
maybe he thought he couldnt keep up?

dunno
if he feels he can contribute next year and the body holds up fine AND he thinks we have a sniff at a chance of a flag then he will play on
i think he will do one more year (2013)
just my thoughts

I think so M, it was when they came back from the highlights wasn't it...

He looked really down.

Critiques himself harshly, certainly can't be praised, and the whole 'if I'm keeping a spot away from a kid then I'll retire' vibe just sums up how unsefish the guy is.

He needs to hold out being too hard on himself until we actually get a ruckman again, personally I think the midfielders have been immense and should be really proud all things considered. He was roving to Maric for a lot of the night, who was doing his best to keep him guessing. A bit of perspective, but I guess he is a champion because he expects so much from himself.

Agreed.

You've got three players...

Two are 22 and 20, and have completed uninterupted preseasons

One is 32, and is returning after a knee reco.

The younger ones have two 7 day breaks and then a 6.

The older player has three 6 day breaks in a row, with a trip to the west in the middle.

At the end of these three games who would you have your money on to finish the strongest, and play the best in the last game?

The two young players are Cotchin and Martin obviously, but that said you take the age out of this equation and I think you'd still put your money on the first two.

Lenny shouldn't be so hard on himself.

[Leo.J]

The problem imo is that Lenny is still probably our best mid. And at his age he shouldn't be.

We need the other guys to step up and force him into the second tier...

While this is undeniably true, it must also be said that Lenny is one of the top midfielders in the League so if we had someone better we would be 8-2 not 5-5.

Agreed.

And maybe Dal and Joey can't get any better, but that doesn't mean Lenny should retire either.

[Leo.J]

I'm agreeing alot atm.

[Austinnn]

Lenny has alot to teach the younger guys also.

While Ben Cousins didn't really work out too well for the Tigers, I believe that without him Cotchin and Martin wouldn't be as advanced as they are now.

This wins the Nail On Head Award of this thread for me. Lenny should not and will not retire at season's end, just as he learnt off Harvey, so Armo, Steven, Ledger and Curren all stand to learn a lot from him.

And can I ask that BigMart and Plugger66 refrain from passively aggressively sniping at each other on here. It's boring to read and detracts from the things that make both posters' posts worth reading.

[Austinnn]

Am I the 'resident expert' loris... Or is that just what you see me as, because I don't believe I have ever mentioned that. I do give an opinion, and from what I understand, that is what a 'forum' is about.

I know giving a negative (or what's seen to be) comment on a champion at stk is like killing Bambi for some supporters, but I try to call things as I see them.... And guess what... I can be wrong, often

I know you're not a fan, and the feeling is quite mutual, due to your patronizing, passive aggressive tone..... But please don't make up stuff to make your point.

Apologies, I just read this and it made me sick.

This is the Saints forum, not the BigMart forum; try to remember that. I don't usually take time out to bother with personal attacks, but I will indulge your ego this one time and ask you to re-assess your contribution to this site. We are here because we want to discuss the Saints, not bitch about people sledging us. If you can't take criticism, don't contribute. It's pretty simple, and I think it's fair.

And as for the 'passive aggressive' point; you wrote the book on that, pal. Have a read of your Dear Plugger66 posts sometime...

Your footy talk is sometimes wrong, sometimes right, usually worth reading; the rest of the dribble you go on with is making me consider putting you on my foe list. I know you don't care, and why should you, but please GIVE IT A REST.

[BigMart]

So is OK to get rid of Blake..... Younger and body good still fine

Who is having a great year, is also a wonderful servant... Who in 2013 could still play a role....

You also used an example of Bakes which contradicts your argument....

[BigMart]

Did loris not engage me??

I don't (never have) enjoyed the fact she pots me, purely because she disagrees with the fact I openly criticize stk, if I see fit. She does not (like P66, although he is better these days) ever argue the footy point, but just keeps it at a personal level...

I know she is a sacred cow on here, because she has the 'little old lady' image, but if she chooses to be nasty.... As she has done in the past with me, I will have a crack back....

She can no doubt fend for herself, especially if she instigates comment..... As she has done on this occasion.

[PJ]

I have no idea why we are even discussing the benefits of Lenny playing on, they should be patently obvious. If his body holds up he will go on and there's all the likelyhood that that will happen. Wonder where he's sitting in our B&F count?

[SainterK]

It's more about if Lenny will allow Lenny to play on PJ

[PJ]

It's more about if Lenny will allow Lenny to play on PJ

Lenny marks himself pretty hard but I have no doubt he will play on. He is at present only responding to media questions in his usual self-effacing way.

[BigMart]

Sainted K

Correct, although Scott Watters plays important role, Pelchin too....

Lenny though, will play on if he is motivated to do so, not because fans hopes he does,.....

He would be 1st in our B&F currently.... It's about 2013 though...

On form, he is absolutely required.

[PJ]

I think the same could be asked of every and any player over 30. Lenny has stated he wants to play on so I don't see the need to speculate there's enough media b#@sh*t out there.