Some good...

[Teflon]

I honestly thought we'd lose by 7-8 goals tonight and while we did I'm not to shattered.

This is the supposed flag contender we played tonight, favorite pre season with all their stars in coming off a belting last week....and really we lost this game in 1 bad qtr of footy with some good cameos from our kids.

Milera - i thought his touches were quality tonight, I actually feel like he will make something happen when involved and and that he makes decent choices.
Saad - hard to judge but looks promising - knows where they are and can add some defensive pressure
Stanley - quieterbut jumped ok in the ruck a few times and competed
Siposs - first gamefor a while, didnt have the tempo but has shown he adds quality disposal which we sorely need
Simpkin - has just about cemented his spot. Real quality here, tough, closing speed decent disposal/decision, cool under pressure. Like him a lot.
Steven - thought his attack on ball and disposal was good tonight

Lets face it, our side is not gonna win the flag so its now about how far down we dip before next chance. Our time to really make change for this side is now and some of our older players IMO are naturally making way - Milne and eventually Blake spring to mind. We also have to consider where we get the best from an ageing Riewoldt and tonight he couldve had a run in defence and we still wouldve looked dangerous fwd.

To go forward we are now at a point where we need to replace some of these guys but the upside is good IMO to come into that side that will improve it are;

Gwilt.
McEvoy - a ruck helps.
Fisher - full game
Schneider
Ledger - who i think has to get a look in soon.
Montagna - MIA
Dal Santo -MIA
Armitage - MIA

Against Carlton Id play Wilkes - find a spot....Roo back?
Bring in Ledger - either Jones/Milne/Polo make way

So upshot is we have some kids, can manage their transition in but we must start now and draft really well.

[Old Mate]

Armo may have sustained a cracked vertebrate in a contest...May have something to do with his output.

[mullet]

What happened to fisher

[saint scout 2]

Fisher = hamstring

[saint75]

I honestly thought we'd lose by 7-8 goals tonight and while we did I'm not to shattered.

This is the supposed flag contender we played tonight, favorite pre season with all their stars in coming off a belting last week....and really we lost this game in 1 bad qtr of footy with some good cameos from our kids.

Milera - i thought his touches were quality tonight, I actually feel like he will make something happen when involved and and that he makes decent choices.
Saad - hard to judge but looks promising - knows where they are and can add some defensive pressure
Stanley - quieterbut jumped ok in the ruck a few times and competed
Siposs - first gamefor a while, didnt have the tempo but has shown he adds quality disposal which we sorely need
Simpkin - has just about cemented his spot. Real quality here, tough, closing speed decent disposal/decision, cool under pressure. Like him a lot.
Steven - thought his attack on ball and disposal was good tonight

Lets face it, our side is not gonna win the flag so its now about how far down we dip before next chance. Our time to really make change for this side is now and some of our older players IMO are naturally making way - Milne and eventually Blake spring to mind. We also have to consider where we get the best from an ageing Riewoldt and tonight he couldve had a run in defence and we still wouldve looked dangerous fwd.

To go forward we are now at a point where we need to replace some of these guys but the upside is good IMO to come into that side that will improve it are;

Gwilt.
McEvoy - a ruck helps.
Fisher - full game
Schneider
Ledger - who i think has to get a look in soon.
Montagna - MIA
Dal Santo -MIA
Armitage - MIA

Against Carlton Id play Wilkes - find a spot....Roo back?
Bring in Ledger - either Jones/Milne/Polo make way

So upshot is we have some kids, can manage their transition in but we must start now and draft really well.

I always find it interesting that a well thought out and positive post on a loss tends to attract very few responses..??

I believe you are spot on with your post. It was our shocking disposal and some players going MIA that cost us dearly in the end. What I find the most heartening is that we are not that far off the top teams. In 2008 we were being thrashed by 60-90 points by the top 4 teams and were way further off the mark than what we are now and the next year we played off in a GF.

We don't have our best team in, we are playing a lot of kids and were trying to cover players that were MIA tonight and we only lost by 6 goals. We were up on most of the key stats going into that last quarter. I think the signs are fantastic. I have not come away from the game disheartened or upset. Quite the opposite.

One more thing that I have to say is that I am LOVING Kosi right about now. He is in some rare form. Great to see him playing relatively injury free. Makes a difference.

[Richter]

Excellent post Teffers. A few additional points....

- it's now all about development of our young players. For mine that means Milney needs to exit stage left, to give a go to the likes of Saad, Siposs and eventually Dunnell. Blake is the same BUT with our no.1 ruck down and CHB down is a required player atm.

- we don't have much depth in the backline, with only someone like Ferguson coming to mind as an up and comer. Perhaps trading for a mature aged player and drafting a potential key backman

- we look more dangerous going forward than we have for quite a while. The new coach takes a lot of plaudits for this. And there is pressure from the 2s also.

- agree re Ledger. Be good to see Ross for a game or two later in the year also. He looks a likely type

- fundamentally disagree re Rooey. He is nowhere near as good a player behind the ball as he is up forward. Sure he is not elite any more. But a consistent B, occasionally A p, grade output from him at CHF is still a good return, especially when the forward line is not all about him any more. I doubt that he can be that good if he were to go back to defence, and more importantly that means that Kosi and Stanley get the better defenders on them rather than Rooey

[Teflon]

In 2008 we were being thrashed by 60-90 points by the top 4 teams and were way further off the mark than what we are now and the next year we played off in a GF.

We don't have our best team in, we are playing a lot of kids and were trying to cover players that were MIA tonight and we only lost by 6 goals. We were up on most of the key stats going into that last quarter. I think the signs are fantastic. I have not come away from the game disheartened or upset. Quite the opposite.

One more thing that I have to say is that I am LOVING Kosi right about now. He is in some rare form. Great to see him playing relatively injury free. Makes a difference.

Thats a really good point 75.

I too remember in 2008 leaving the game after being smacked by Hawks and Cats earlier and thinking.....we are years away......I didnt see 2009 coming.

I'll admit the difference is Roo and Hayes were in their prime......BUT i also dont reckon the quality of GOP's that Lyon was amassing as role players is as talented or has the skills as some of our kids. No question that Siposs, Cripps, Ledger, Steven, Milera have far more upside in skills over Eddy, Mqualter, Polo, Peake etc

Ive always thought its a race between how fast our stars fade and kids come on that determines if we get another flag shot with this group - question is (cause its not this year) can we develop fast enough this year to support a Roo/Kosi/Hayes/Fisher/Dal/Goddard/Montagnacore next year for a shot???

Either way we have to develop NOW - anyone not in for next year ought to make way.

[maverick]

In 2008 we were being thrashed by 60-90 points by the top 4 teams and were way further off the mark than what we are now and the next year we played off in a GF.

We don't have our best team in, we are playing a lot of kids and were trying to cover players that were MIA tonight and we only lost by 6 goals. We were up on most of the key stats going into that last quarter. I think the signs are fantastic. I have not come away from the game disheartened or upset. Quite the opposite.

One more thing that I have to say is that I am LOVING Kosi right about now. He is in some rare form. Great to see him playing relatively injury free. Makes a difference.

Thats a really good point 75.

I too remember in 2008 leaving the game after being smacked by Hawks and Cats earlier and thinking.....we are years away......I didnt see 2009 coming.

I'll admit the difference is Roo and Hayes were in their prime......BUT i also dont reckon the quality of GOP's that Lyon was amassing as role players is as talented or has the skills as some of our kids. No question that Siposs, Cripps, Ledger, Steven, Milera have far more upside in skills over Eddy, Mqualter, Polo, Peake etc

Ive always thought its a race between how fast our stars fade and kids come on that determines if we get another flag shot with this group - question is (cause its not this year) can we develop fast enough this year to support a Roo/Kosi/Hayes/Fisher/Dal/Goddard/Montagnacore next year for a shot???

Either way we have to develop NOW - anyone not in for next year ought to make way.

Spot on, the race is on.
Enter Ledger and Ross

[Teflon]

so if it is a race then who makes way this year vs who gets games?

For mine the must ins (as much as possible as we wont/cant play all kids) are;

Stanley
Sipposs
Ledger
Cripps
Milera
Saad
Ross

Id really also love to see what we can do with rookies - look at how well Pies did with their GF sides and rookies.......gotta get some wins here...

Who makes way from current 22 if we are to give youth a genuine development chance and improve the sides skill level?? - this doesnt mean they wont play again this year, it means they are not certainties to be picked starting 22 each week (injuries also play a role) and are most likely to make way.

Blake (will play short term)
Polo
Milne
Jones
Gram

On thin ice for mine;

Armo, Montagna

[SainterK]

What a good thread, sorry I missed it last night.

Another positive is, we still have some ripper talls, and some shaky defences coming up.

Pull the trigger, kick it deep.

[Teflon]

Watters has to get some points for at least making our attack start to look potent again. Our defense when fit is still A class IMHO with some quality users of the footy back there when fit:

Gwilt - class ball user
Fisher - class ball user/Decision maker
Gilbert -
Dempster -
Simpkin
Goddard - class ball user
Geary

I also loved Simpkins physical efforts when bodying up Buddy tbh.

Its midfield we are coming up short -gotta get the runs into kids in there.

[Richter]

You can add Newnes to that list Teffers. Rookies Jackson Ferguson and Sam Dunnell both have wraps on them. First (and only) time I've seen them play was on the ABC transmission of last week's Sandy game. Both in the Zebs best. Be good to see them continue to develop, and in Sam's case in particular fill out a bit.

[saintsRrising]

Agree on Newnes...and you could see what the coaches fast tracked his selection.
He is still a fair bit off being a genuine first 22 player....but looks like he can become one.

[borderbarry]

And Raph cant be too far away at this stage. He, like Gwilt, will need several games at Sandy before consideration for the Seniors.

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

so if it is a race then who makes way this year vs who gets games?

For mine the must ins (as much as possible as we wont/cant play all kids) are;

Stanley
Sipposs
Ledger
Cripps
Milera
Saad
Ross

Id really also love to see what we can do with rookies - look at how well Pies did with their GF sides and rookies.......gotta get some wins here...

Who makes way from current 22 if we are to give youth a genuine development chance and improve the sides skill level?? - this doesnt mean they wont play again this year, it means they are not certainties to be picked starting 22 each week (injuries also play a role) and are most likely to make way.

Blake (will play short term)
Polo
Milne
Jones
Gram

On thin ice for mine;

Armo, Montagna

Polo really has to make way ASAP. Yes, he tries hard and does some good things but there is no upside to his game and is only holding up the development of younger players. Also, his disposal and decision making is abysmal.

Milne is really struggling. He goes missing for large periods of the game and brings zero defensive pressure. Saad's performance really enlivened the forward line.

Blake has to play now that Big Ben is out.

I'm happy for Gram, Peake and Ray all not to get a look in for the rest of the year. They can't take the team forward.

Still baffled as to why Ledger has not seen more action in the seniors.

Would love to see Sam Dunnell brought onto the main list should someone sustain a long-term injury.

[Dave McNamara]

so if it is a race then who makes way this year vs who gets games?

For mine the must ins (as much as possible as we wont/cant play all kids) are;

Stanley
Sipposs
Ledger
Cripps
Milera
Saad
Ross

Id really also love to see what we can do with rookies - look at how well Pies did with their GF sides and rookies.......gotta get some wins here...

Who makes way from current 22 if we are to give youth a genuine development chance and improve the sides skill level?? - this doesnt mean they wont play again this year, it means they are not certainties to be picked starting 22 each week (injuries also play a role) and are most likely to make way.

Blake (will play short term)
Polo
Milne
Jones
Gram

On thin ice for mine;

Armo, Montagna

I agree with the other posters - this is on the whole a very well thought out and presented thread. See..., SS can do it.

And one of those very well thought out and presented posts is your one Tef. That said it wouldn't be SS if I didn't try to tinker with it slightly - all IMHO of course.

As several OPs who beat me to it suggested, I too would add Newnes to the get-games-into list.

Will play short term: I'd move CJ off that. Unlike some on here I really rate him. Fast and hard, and always gives everything. He may get a few possies on his own, but he gets plenty in heavy traffic - haven't noticed the opposition gifting him kicks in there! Kicking, yep... if he could kick better he'd be pushing to join the competition's elite mid fielders I reckon... Go CJ!

And the fact that such a talented bloke is (rightly) on that list is an indictment on Grammy. Come on Grammy!

Thin ice: I'd take Armo off that list. I reckon he's been good and is now starting to show some consistency. Go Armo!

[Teflon]

Still baffled as to why Ledger has not seen more action in the seniors.

Would love to see Sam Dunnell brought onto the main list should someone sustain a long-term injury.

Agree re Dunnell and yep, Im stuffed if I know how Ledger can't get a game....is hard, fast, wins his own ball, tackles and can jag a goal???

Must be more to the internal questions than we see cause performances have indicated he's ok.

[Animal Enclosure]

I agree with the parallels to the 2008 side, you could also draw comparisons with 2007 with a new coach & new game plan- things looked terrible at times then.

I've always been bullish on the talent that Stanley possesses & we are starting to see it now. He has been a massive difference in improving our forward line function this season. He will be the key forward that the next premiership tilt is built around...

I'm very happy to write Gram, Peake & Polo off... I still think Ray is young enough to play a role, he has played some damn good footy over the last few years & we're missing his link play as an outside mid.

Don't forget that free agency will soon be upon us, which will be both a challenge & massive opportunity. I think there will be at least one big departure that will provide salary cap space to go after a free agent & also a 1st round pick (maybe 2) in an exceptionally strong draft.

No doubt that this season will be bloody frustrating but at least there are a number of kids showing glimpses that they will be bona fide AFL players in the next few years.