Thank Goodness we dodged this bullet

[Sobraz]

You make a very compelling case Moods... Well thought out and detailed...

[Moods]

You're friend's daughter, through her unfortunate association with a creep, didn't choose to become addicted, but none the less chose to use drugs.

i've done a shedload of drugs in my time. legal and illegal. going on twenty years since the first time i did so. i'll do it again - there's some in the freezer right now. and guess what? i'm not addicted because i don't have that thing in my head which makes me get addicted. and i'm massively thankful for that, given what i've seen.

do you really think it's a realistic position to say that no-one should ever try anything addictive? ciggies? booze? dope? other drugs? they exist, you can't put the genie back in the bottle. so all you can do is try to help out people who have problems with them.

and make no mistake, legal drugs can be easily as damaging as illegal.

It's a fair point you make Bergholt. I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't help these people out. And many legal drugs are as damaging or more so. Alcohol is the biggest problem facing our society I reckon. But for almost every human weakness that causes grief to others, we can find an excuse for that person. Ever sat in court and listened to crooks being sentenced? Very rarely do you hear them say, ' you know what, I committed this crime b/c i'm an arsehole and have no regard for other people.' It's because they have anger management issues because their dad beat their mother. It's because their mum was a drug addict, now they're a drug addict. It's because they were molested now they do the molesting. The list goes on.....

People will make mistakes. Christ, I've made plenty and plenty of my mates have made plenty (and plenty use drugs - recreationally of course....) I just reckon that as a society, if we are to label certain sections as 'losers' because they live on the streets, prostitute themselves and are drug addicts, why does the wealthy, talented, good looking Mr Cousins appear to get the benefit of our doubt?

Maybe ALL of us need to examine the problem properly. As a society we appear so much more considered when it involves a celebrity. Matt Newton bashes his girlfriend because he has a mental illness. He's sick. Joe Blogs does it because he's an arsehole, and we couldn't care less what problems he's afflicted with. The point is, there's almost always a reason why ppl do things - most of it logical. We seem to accept it far easier when it's a celebrity though.

I recently charged an Afgan drug dealer with a meth lab. He migrated to Aust from a war torn country, had nil education and his dad was killed in the war. He spent his first 11 years of his life fighting his brother while his dad watched. Violence was a way of life for him. He has plenty excuses as to why he turned out the way he did. I betting no-one cares too much though...

[Thinline]

Thinline - do you believe that smoking is an illness?

Nicotine addiction - yes. Smoking - no.

Why?

Am I walking into a semantics trap?

[Moods]

Thinline - do you believe that smoking is an illness?

Nicotine addiction - yes. Smoking - no.

Why?

Am I walking into a semantics trap?

Not at all. Just my own curiousity as to how you define an illness.

Personally I struggle to separate one from the other. Unless you smoke cigarettes that don't contain nicotine.

BTW - I will gratefully admit that I have not had to deal with a close friend or loved one fighting a drug addiction. I am also happy to admit that I may well have a different opinion on the matter if I had been in this situation and dealt with it first hand. I have only ever been on the other side.

P.S. - Personally not sure why other posters always end up in slanging matches. Was good to have a debate without anything turning personal

[plugger66]

Plugger, you are right and that is a sad story. I have more to do with people who use and deal drugs than most on here I reckon. It is a complicated situation. I maintain it is an addiction (no doubt) but how do we define an illness? I agree with Dan in that illnesses are surely diseases we have no choice in. You're friend's daughter, through her unfortunate association with a creep, didn't choose to become addicted, but none the less chose to use drugs. Do you consider all fat people to have an eating illness? All anti social people to have a social illness? I just reckon the word illness is a nice way of softening what the actual problem is. It's an addiction! No-one wants to become addicted, but the dangers are always inherent.

Having said that, it is the dealers my ire is more directed at. From all reports this is the area Cousins is moving into. Can't stand it. I don't care what his reasons are, whether it be to help out a few mates who are on the gear, or to make a few dollars on the side to make ice more affordable. And it isn't cheap!

From everything I've read about Cousins' situation it ISN'T a sad one. He was simply a recreational drug user from a middle class family. I agree we all make mistakes in life, and we all need to be careful about being too judgemental about others as we are all flesh and bone and a mistake can be made by any one of us.

Two questions for you - do you consider smoking cigarettes an illness? Many are addicted, have trouble quitting, and eventually they kill you. Some people die quicker than others but basically you are inhaling poison.

When you watch the news and see that some poor innocent bloke (or girl) has been bashed, mugged, robbed, etc. and they show the drug addicted crook who is accused of the crime, do you feel sorry for the crook or the victim? Or both? I'll be honest - I feel sorry for the victim and NOT the crook. I see too many people making excuses for their plight in life. To Cousins' credit, as I said, I haven't heard him making excuses for himself. I just don't reckon we should be making excuses for him either. I reckon he chose the lifestyle he had, probably not realising it was taking him down the path it has now. Your friend's daughter took drugs for, it appears, completely different reasons. Very sad and everyone's circumstances are different. I've read nothing on Cousins to make me think we should feel sorry for him, and I'm staggered at the back slappers who continually tell him that he is/was an inspiration to them.

It is my friend actually nothing to do with my daughter. Anyway is smoking an illness. Hard question. Smoking isnt an illness but smoking until you are sick is IMO just as drinking isnt an illness but alcoholism is IMO. I could take drugs, which I never had by the way even though people will swear the way I think I must be on them, and it wouldnt be a sickness to me because havent really got an addictive personality but people who have and then get addicted have an illness again IMO. As Thinline pointed out Cousins is a perfect example. Got everything, given every chance to kick the habit and still cant and you could bet it isnt lack of trying. Just hooked beyond help because of a very addictive personality and no doctors or specialists seem to be able to help the guy.

[SainterK]

So if he has been taking drugs since his teens, he has probably been going through this longer than he hasn't....

Of course I feel for his family, however he now has a son

[plugger66]

Thinline - do you believe that smoking is an illness?

Nicotine addiction - yes. Smoking - no.

Why?

Am I walking into a semantics trap?

Not at all. Just my own curiousity as to how you define an illness.

Personally I struggle to separate one from the other. Unless you smoke cigarettes that don't contain nicotine.

BTW - I will gratefully admit that I have not had to deal with a close friend or loved one fighting a drug addiction. I am also happy to admit that I may well have a different opinion on the matter if I had been in this situation and dealt with it first hand. I have only ever been on the other side.

P.S. - Personally not sure why other posters always end up in slanging matches. Was good to have a debate without anything turning personal

Get f***ed idoit.

[plugger66]

So if he has been taking drugs since his teens, he has probably been going through this longer than he hasn't....

Of course I feel for his family, however he now has a son

I think he knows that. My friend has 3 kids. They take a back seat. Sounds shocking and it is because it is such a terrible thing. Wouldnt wish it my wrst enemy.

[bergholt]

I recently charged an Afgan drug dealer with a meth lab. He migrated to Aust from a war torn country, had nil education and his dad was killed in the war. He spent his first 11 years of his life fighting his brother while his dad watched. Violence was a way of life for him. He has plenty excuses as to why he turned out the way he did. I betting no-one cares too much though...

the way the media and society treat celebs is a whole different kettle of fish, but i think we're on the same side there. i don't have any particular sympathy for cousins but i certainly don't care more about him than about the afghan drug dealer, or the guy begging for money on the street with no teeth who hasn't had a proper meal in two years but has had heaps of smack. we just hear more about cousins, but that doesn't mean his plight is particularly more important.

[groupie1]

Ben Cousins had/has a choice...

if you believe that then you don't really understand addiction.

Agreed. Dumb post.

[CJC]

Poor guy. I wish the media would leave him alone.
Everywhere he goes he gets cameras thrown in his face........ (Although we all happily watch, myself included).
Scummy gutter journaism, unfortunently the majority these days, is not helping him or us.

[skeptic]

Just an observation... not all drug addicts are violent horrible people and it's not good enough to say that all have a choice, brought it on themselves etc

don't get me wrong, I have met my share of useless loser F#c$wit stoneers that have somehow got themselves onto a DSP to support their habit, and are violent thugs to say the least...

I also looked after a 17yo girl once who was horribly addicted to heroin. Was really scattered, had a major criminal record mosttly relating to theft and violence. Her story was that her mother started prostituting her at age 8 to feed her own habit. At age 11 she started using so that she could black out the... "events" when they were happening. Hence a habit was born.
At age 11 in that environment with those supports tell me she had a choice or isn't a victim.

My point is, it's easy to dum this issue down to drug addicts and non drug users etc and say people make choices, take responsibility etc - the fact is that often we don't now s#!t about people's lives and what they go through

[8856brother]

Poor guy. I wish the media would leave him alone.
Everywhere he goes he gets cameras thrown in his face........ (Although we all happily watch, myself included).
Scummy gutter journaism, unfortunently the majority these days, is not helping him or us.

If he didn't have a heap of ice up his arse no one would be talking about him.

[samuraisaint]

Travelling around America over 20 years ago I saw a heap of the drug affected underclass on the streets. Saw a lot of alkies on the streets of London too 18 or 19 years ago. Vowed never to become one of them. Sometimes it's poor choices people make when they're young and taking risks as is normal for young people, other times addiction affects people who have a low intellect and therefore lack the ability to develop their own healthy coping strategies. Either way, it's pretty hard to point the finger at a guy who seems likeable enough. I tend to see things through his parent's eyes nowadays though and I reckon that they will have to hand over the reigns of personal responsibility firmly over to Ben now.
If he doesn't wake up now he will end up in the clink or the giggle house, and the biggest tragedy of that is that he won't develop a meaningful relationship with his son. That is the worst outcome of this type of episode.