Does last years 'late' form mean anything?

[SainterK]

Sure the early part of the year was terrible.

However beat West Coast and Carlton late, which are a couple of decent teams.

If the confidence is up, and they get on an early roll, anything to suggest that kind of form cannot be replicated?

When you look at who has been lost overall, and who has been gained. Yes players like Milne, Lenny etc are a year older...but at least we have Lenny this time...but so are Ledger, Cripps, Siposs, Stanley.

Gilbert, Roo and BJ will surely not have the same kind of year.

I guess heaps falls on the coaching situation?

[Teflon]

Last year counts for nought.

[SainterK]

Hmmm, I'm not sure I agree.

I sometimes highlight individual players that will have good seasons based on picking up where they left off.

Can that not work the same collectively?

I just don't see how people have them around the 12-16th spot on the ladder on average, when you look at how they finished last year and what kind of form they are/were capable of.

People have WCE and Carlton top 4 because of this principle don't they?

[dragit]

My last memory of 2011 was us being flogged at our home ground by the 7th best side who had to travel interstate…

Carlton did not have much to play for from memory, whereas we had a home final at stake…

Was it Con's rant from half-way through the WCE match? Strange match with amazing bursts from both sides…

Our starting 21 would surely be the oldest going, which suggests that we are not going to improve too much from that bunch? WCE & Carlton are both pretty young and seem to be improving rapidly…

[SainterK]

Carlton were playing for a home final.

WCE was a great win.

Sydney game I still maintain had some strange coaching, and let's be clear, I never questioned the coaching any other time.

[Legendary]

I think any effect of the strong finish to last year will show itself when we come up against some of those better sides that we beat (e.g. Carlton and West Coast) and maybe we have a little bit more confidence ...

[dragit]

Don't think so, Carlton were 3 games behind WCE and 3 games in front of us… They were 5th whatever happened.

Strange coaching it may have been, but I don't think Ross went out of his way to lose, we were very poor whatever the coaching instructions were.

I honestly felt that we were comfortably behind the top 4-5 sides late last year… and probably still are.

[Beno88]

While I tend to agree that last year means little, recent history shows that when St.Kilda finish a season strongly, they usually start the next one strongly.

Came home on fire in 1997. Dominated the first half of 1998.

Chalked up big wins at the end of 2003. Dominated the first half of 2004.

Came home strong in 2008. Dominated the first half of 2009.

[SainterK]

It's funny dragit....because I reckon Carlton will struggle this year, and they ended poorly. Won v Bombers, but lost to Hawks, Saints, WCE last few weeks.

I just think the formline was pretty good, slot Lenny back in and Gwilt a little later, a fit BJ, and a Roo that could not possibly have another season like that again.

I just can't see how the Saints will drop so significantly.

[Dave McNamara]

My last memory of 2011 was us being flogged at our home ground by the 7th best side who had to travel interstate…

That was a disappointing result. We should have been able to beat the Swines.

Our starting 21 would surely be the oldest going, which suggests that we are not going to improve too much from that bunch? WCE & Carlton are both pretty young and seem to be improving rapidly…

Fair point Dragit, but maybe worth a bit of a closer look... Who are our 'oldies'..?

Lenny - Can't produce less than last year...
Sam F - Unlikely to improve, but showing no signs of dropping off yet.
Roo - Unlikely to be worse this year, quite possibly will be better - if so, watch out...
Kosi - Unfortunately coming from a low basis point, so if fit, more likely to contribute more this year than last...
Grammy - Seemed to improve late last season, needs to continue this, but again, unlikely to get markedly worse.
Mighty Tiprat - Age should be catching up, but showing no signs. Has averaged 55 goals a year for the last four seasons. What a champ!
Schneids - Is/gives the impression of being a bit lazy, but can really play IMHO. No signs yet of slowing with age.
Joe B - Very early days this season, but he looks to be the one on possibly his last (football) legs. A shame too, as I'd have him in that proud club of footballers who were really underrated.

So based on the above, next year should not see any major drop off due to age.

However increased age should help many of our younger guys as mentioned above by Sainter OK.

Then we've got our new recruits. If a couple of them can offer something in their first year, although many of us fans may not be able to handle the shock(!), the team will get better.

So in summary, I see the so-called ageing list as not dropping off their output this year, and maybe even improving, whereas increased experience for the younger guys combined with some hopeful new recruits should definitely improve the team.

I'm holding off on the doom and gloom, and closing of windows. Go you Saintas!!!!!!!

[dragit]

I just can't see how the Saints will drop so significantly.

Hope you're right k.

[plugger66]

I hope last year means nothing as we were about 5 wins off 4th spot. I also hope practice form for this year means nothing. I year in a negaitive way could be decided after the Port game. We must win or we are in real trouble.

[dcstkfc]

Carlton were playing for a home final.

WCE was a great win.

Sydney game I still maintain had some strange coaching, and let's be clear, I never questioned the coaching any other time.

Incorrect- Carlton were set in stone in 5th position. They laid just 42 tackles for the night. It was bruise-free footy before the finals.

Sydney had outplayed us 3 weeks prior as well

We ended up clearly the 7th best team in it. That's a lot of ground to make up with an ageing list and Adelaide, Richmond, North, Essendon and Freo all eyeing off our spot in the 8.

[gringo]

Carlton were playing for a home final.

WCE was a great win.

Sydney game I still maintain had some strange coaching, and let's be clear, I never questioned the coaching any other time.

Incorrect- Carlton were set in stone in 5th position. They laid just 42 tackles for the night. It was bruise-free footy before the finals.

Sydney had outplayed us 3 weeks prior as well

We ended up clearly the 7th best team in it. That's a lot of ground to make up with an ageing list and Adelaide, Richmond, North, Essendon and Freo all eyeing off our spot in the 8.

Unfortunately Geelong failed to notice that I had written them off after being demolished by the Pies and losing to us. they looked old worn and like the message wasn't getting through. Unfortunately they changed coach, injected some youth and reinvigorated the place and won another premiership, shame we can't do that.....

[dcstkfc]

Carlton were playing for a home final.

WCE was a great win.

Sydney game I still maintain had some strange coaching, and let's be clear, I never questioned the coaching any other time.

Incorrect- Carlton were set in stone in 5th position. They laid just 42 tackles for the night. It was bruise-free footy before the finals.

Sydney had outplayed us 3 weeks prior as well

We ended up clearly the 7th best team in it. That's a lot of ground to make up with an ageing list and Adelaide, Richmond, North, Essendon and Freo all eyeing off our spot in the 8.

Unfortunately Geelong failed to notice that I had written them off after being demolished by the Pies and losing to us. they looked old worn and like the message wasn't getting through. Unfortunately they changed coach, injected some youth and reinvigorated the place and won another premiership, shame we can't do that.....

In 2010, Geelong went 17-5 and had a percentage of 147. Had it not been for the Mooney reversal in the QF they probably would have been Grand Finalists.

In 2011, St Kilda went 12-9-1 with a percentage of 112. We were knocked out in an elimination final.

Geelong get a terrible rap because of one half v Collingwood in the prelim where they were obliterated. But make no mistake, in 2010 they were still a very good side, much better than St Kilda 2011 and had a lot less of a gap to make up with an ageing list than we do now.

[Con Gorozidis]

Hope our last game (v swans ) doesnt mean anything.
we was violated.

[Cairnsman]

Unless we can uncover 2-3 (absolute minimum) rare and gifted talents that can instantly step up to AFL level, or say within the first few rounds AND while adapting to a new game plan then I'd say blind Freddy on a space scooter will tell you what last years form meant.

[crippa2sipa]

In 2011, St Kilda went 12-9-1 with a percentage of 112. We were knocked out in an elimination final.

Geelong get a terrible rap because of one half v Collingwood in the prelim where they were obliterated. But make no mistake, in 2010 they were still a very good side, much better than St Kilda 2011 and had a lot less of a gap to make up with an ageing list than we do now.

Yes, but except for the loss of Dawson (and reading between the lines Pelchen didn't want him anyway as delisting Polo is all it would have taken), St Kilda in 2012 is a much better side than St Kilda in 2011.
If St Kilda in 2011 managed to finish 6th without the help of an easy draw, why are so many predicting that St Kilda in 2012, with a better team, an easy draw, and a threefold increase in coaching staff will finish 14th?

[bobmurray]

Last years form won't count for anything...this particular team is the great unknown

I hope defence is capable...
I hope our forwards can kick enough goals..
i hope our mids are skilful enough to compete.
I hope our Rucks can win their share of contests..

I hope our skills are up to par and that we aren't shown to be too slow....

There is no form guide for that lot...

[Con Gorozidis]

In 2011, St Kilda went 12-9-1 with a percentage of 112. We were knocked out in an elimination final.

Geelong get a terrible rap because of one half v Collingwood in the prelim where they were obliterated. But make no mistake, in 2010 they were still a very good side, much better than St Kilda 2011 and had a lot less of a gap to make up with an ageing list than we do now.

Yes, but except for the loss of Dawson (and reading between the lines Pelchen didn't want him anyway as delisting Polo is all it would have taken), St Kilda in 2012 is a much better side than St Kilda in 2011.
If St Kilda in 2011 managed to finish 6th without the help of an easy draw, why are so many predicting that St Kilda in 2012, with a better team, an easy draw, and a threefold increase in coaching staff will finish 14th?

pelchen has a thing against zacs and a lust for beaus.

say what u like about zac - but surely surely hes more value than marco!

[SainterK]

Carlton were playing for a home final.

WCE was a great win.

Sydney game I still maintain had some strange coaching, and let's be clear, I never questioned the coaching any other time.

Incorrect- Carlton were set in stone in 5th position. They laid just 42 tackles for the night. It was bruise-free footy before the finals.

Sydney had outplayed us 3 weeks prior as well

We ended up clearly the 7th best team in it. That's a lot of ground to make up with an ageing list and Adelaide, Richmond, North, Essendon and Freo all eyeing off our spot in the 8.

Apologies, we were playing for a home final....

Also think Sydney will pick up where they left off and have a cracker year.

[whiskers3614]

Last year's late rally will allow the "Lyon lovers" on here to wring there hands and bag Nettlefold when we drop down'
Look out, the first time we have 15plus goals kicked against us!

[saintspremiers]

Hope our last game (v swans ) doesnt mean anything.
we was violated.

Violated by Lyon on that game. He's gone so you can write it off now.

[crippa2sipa]

Hey whiskers, why are you expecting to have 15 plus goals kicked against us? We didn't last year. Why this year?

[whiskers3614]

Might average more than 6 goals "for".
Not playing for score-less draws anymore.