Nettlefold - Do you have confidence?

[hungry for a premiership]

Now I know that everyone is over the whole RL fiasco and we are all looking forward to the new season, but now that it's all done and dusted, and we can see with some clarity and not through eyes bulging with rage, I am going to need to rehash the scenario one more time, because I believe there is one piece of evidence therein that cannot be disputed that has kind of been overlooked, well, it hasn't been over-looked but it needs to be stated again I feel because I myself have only just fully realised it and it has massive ramifications for our club.

So, there can be absolutely no doubt at all, that it was Nettlefold's intention to resign RL. He had his chance early in the year. Couldv'e signed him off easily. "RESIGN ROSS LYON NOW," read one thread title here on Saintsational back in may 2011. But Nettlefold let it go on too long. he was negligent in his duties. Luckily, though, we landed on our feet - it could turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

The fact remains, though, that Nettlefold didn't do his job. Hence, he'll stuff up again in the future.

I wanted to have a poll, to gauge if the overall perception is like mine, that we have an incompetent man running the club, and that he needs to be punished for cocking up re: RL, but I couldn't figure out how to start one (I guess I'm incompetent too), how do I do this?

Until someone tells me how to start a poll, I'll just ask straight out: Do you have confidence in Nettlefolds ability to run the club even though he has already displayed incompetence? Or do you believe he hasn't displayed incompetence? Or something else? It's all a big conspiracy, perhaps??? That's the only argument that can make Nettlefold out to look good, that it's all a big conspiracy and Nettlefold really wanted RL to go for some reason or another. But the facts are there. He wanted RL to stay. And he could've made him, easily. But he didn't.

[sainters4eva]

Maybe after our dismal start to last year and the fact we had missed out on 2 premiership opportunities, Nettlefold himself had some doubts about RL going forward but he wanted to hedge his bets. So he didn't push the issue of the contract extension. It remains to be seen whether he has redeemed himself but his strategy and all the changes that have occurred since RL left may turn out to be a masterful stroke.

[Con Gorozidis]

Maybe after our dismal start to last year and the fact we had missed out on 2 premiership opportunities, Nettlefold himself had some doubts about RL going forward but he wanted to hedge his bets. So he didn't push the issue of the contract extension. It remains to be seen whether he has redeemed himself but his strategy and all the changes that have occurred since RL left may turn out to be a masterful stroke.

agree. too early to call on this. at the moment i am firmly in the nettlefold camp. but of course i could be wrong. aint footy a funny game. all this complexity and it will all come down to that god damn 4 points each week. might win by a point draw with the tiges. or lose by a god darn bounce.
no doubt by round 8 we will have people calling nettlefold a complete dimwit or a hero.
but just so hard to call. i think there were doubts in nettlefoleds mind and also clearly some doubts in RLs mind whether he can take the group any further after he got so much from them. my gut feel is its a win win for everyone and its a blessing in disguide. i mean what more could ross do with these guys> he squezed every ounce. so i think its just a time to move on for everyone. for whatever reasons the club and ross moved on from each other. if we go badly then the reason is probably the terrible drafting/trading 2006-2009 period that done it.

see u in round 8.

[hAyES]

Yes you could say he stuffed up, but hopefully he learns from this. If you want the man lock him up nice and early.

I think it's going to be a blessing in disguise though.

[Teflon]

I get where this comes from and have thought similar....his media efforts aren't what I'd call polished. What makes me more nervous is Nettlefolds comments at Albury AGM bout re- signing Goddard.... a sort of "we'll get to his management in a few months".......I am obviously paranoid but it just lacked urgency and I couldn't help think of the Lyon situation.

Goddard and his management must be a priority - same with Fisher.... so let's not allow the media rubbish....let's get on front foot now..... I know it's 2 to tango but surely we can send the message that this is an urgent focus??

[Bazza1970]

In April last year, Lyon still had 2 years left on his contract. No need to re-sign him at that point. My issue with Nettlefold is what he is doing about increasing our revenue streams, particularly sponsorship. It should his main priority, not re-signing coaches.

[SainterK]

I reckon at this particular point, he'd be worried when his contract is up.

Sponsorship, stadium signage, corporate dollars....from an outsiders perspective, it's not been a fantastic performance in recent times.

I don't know enough about his involvement in the RL saga to blame him entirely. Is it purely his call, or does the board ratify those kind of decisions?

I await to see what the 'exciting opportunities' to be announced are, they keep alluding some kind of big news....maybe whatever it is will elevate his performance again?

[satchmo]

The fact remains, though, that Nettlefold didn't do his job. Hence, he'll stuff up again in the future.

Do you know for a "fact" that this wasn't discussed and decided at board level?

The board will be well placed to judge his performance. Outside opinions are largely irrelevant.

[Dr Spaceman]

Do you know for a "fact" that this wasn't discussed and decided at board level?

The board will be well placed to judge his performance. Outside opinions are largely irrelevant.

At last a post I can whack my +1 on.

Thanks satchmo

[MrCordz]

As senior Manager in a large firm, I have little confidence in Nettlefold and neither do many I've spoken to who knew him well before he was appointed CEO.

[satchmo]

Do you know for a "fact" that this wasn't discussed and decided at board level?

The board will be well placed to judge his performance. Outside opinions are largely irrelevant.

At last a post I can whack my +1 on.

Thanks satchmo

No worries Dr, whack it on!

btw I'm having a bit of pain in my lower back, can you give me anything???

[Spinner]

What I want to know is 'is it good corporate governance to write in early termination clauses into coaching contracts'.


Westaway (and his board), who doesnt come acress very well IMO at the last two AGM has forced all these changes to the constitution in the name of 'good corporate governance'.

Are we the only club that writes in these clauses? Are we afriad of committing? Are we afriad of paying out?

Seems like our reputation for sacking coaches early came up to bite us one this time. Scarred us, hence the clause. And it backfired.

[Con Gorozidis]

I get where this comes from and have thought similar....his media efforts aren't what I'd call polished. What makes me more nervous is Nettlefolds comments at Albury AGM bout re- signing Goddard.... a sort of "we'll get to his management in a few months".......I am obviously paranoid but it just lacked urgency and I couldn't help think of the Lyon situation.

Goddard and his management must be a priority - same with Fisher.... so let's not allow the media rubbish....let's get on front foot now..... I know it's 2 to tango but surely we can send the message that this is an urgent focus??

pretty good effort of him to to the AW AGM in the fist place.

[skeptic]

He had his chance early in the year. Couldv'e signed him off easily. "RESIGN ROSS LYON NOW," read one thread title here on Saintsational back in may 2011.

is that a fact though

I'm inclined more to agree with bazza

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

Do you have confidence in Nettlefolds ability to run the club even though he has already displayed incompetence?

No, not really.

Or do you believe he hasn't displayed incompetence?

Yes. I shudder every time I see him/hear him in the media - it's the worst of his weaknesses.

[Buckets]

I get where this comes from and have thought similar....his media efforts aren't what I'd call polished. What makes me more nervous is Nettlefolds comments at Albury AGM bout re- signing Goddard.... a sort of "we'll get to his management in a few months".......I am obviously paranoid but it just lacked urgency and I couldn't help think of the Lyon situation.

Goddard and his management must be a priority - same with Fisher.... so let's not allow the media rubbish....let's get on front foot now..... I know it's 2 to tango but surely we can send the message that this is an urgent focus??

pretty good effort of him to to the AW AGM in the fist place.

Just to add to those comments. He did in fact say that they were still awaiting confirmation from the AFL as to whether he would be a unrestricted free agent or a restricted free agent. Reading the info even if BJ did go we still get compo as he is in the top 10 paid players at the club and the AFL decides the compo just like the last 3 years.

Nettlefold did state that BJ wasn't the only one they would have to fit in the cap. He didn't say he would wait months to get back in contact with his management but he wasn't going to force the issue. A team is more than one player remember.


I must admit that he had never given me much confidence going off media snippets but listening to him on Monday he won me over. I think he is doing a good job and very much looking forward to these big initiatives he has spoken about.

[miskycat]

Surely he has to wear the huge drop in membership. Even more so, the hopeless state of our sponsorship. I don't have confidence in him. He's bungled lots and was not able to articulate any plan re improving things when questioned at the AGM.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Hang on a sec didn't Ross himself put contract talks on hold back in April ??

As for sponsorship it's a bit hard to sell the St Kilda brand when the club is battling teenage girls with vendettas and twit players being dumb in NZ ...

Let's be honest Nettlefold is lightyears ahead of Archie was

[saintly]

Now I know that everyone is over the whole RL fiasco and we are all looking forward to the new season, but now that it's all done and dusted, and we can see with some clarity and not through eyes bulging with rage, I am going to need to rehash the scenario one more time, because I believe there is one piece of evidence therein that cannot be disputed that has kind of been overlooked, well, it hasn't been over-looked but it needs to be stated again I feel because I myself have only just fully realised it and it has massive ramifications for our club.

So, there can be absolutely no doubt at all, that it was Nettlefold's intention to resign RL. He had his chance early in the year. Couldv'e signed him off easily. "RESIGN ROSS LYON NOW," read one thread title here on Saintsational back in may 2011. But Nettlefold let it go on too long. he was negligent in his duties. Luckily, though, we landed on our feet - it could turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

The fact remains, though, that Nettlefold didn't do his job. Hence, he'll stuff up again in the future.

I wanted to have a poll, to gauge if the overall perception is like mine, that we have an incompetent man running the club, and that he needs to be punished for cocking up re: RL, but I couldn't figure out how to start one (I guess I'm incompetent too), how do I do this?

Until someone tells me how to start a poll, I'll just ask straight out: Do you have confidence in Nettlefolds ability to run the club even though he has already displayed incompetence? Or do you believe he hasn't displayed incompetence? Or something else? It's all a big conspiracy, perhaps??? That's the only argument that can make Nettlefold out to look good, that it's all a big conspiracy and Nettlefold really wanted RL to go for some reason or another. But the facts are there. He wanted RL to stay. And he could've made him, easily. But he didn't.

Why should have the saints exteneded Lyon's contract 1 & 1/2 years out form when his contract would finish, and when the saints had won 1 game out of out? why would you at least wait until the end of 2011?

[Mr Magic]

Why is it that a succession of highly regarded business managers/owners become incompetent when they take on senior roles at our Club?

I'm sure I've read similar critiques about the last few CEO/COO of our CLub on here.

[Con Gorozidis]

nettlefold got pelchen and ran a very decent selection process for coach. so hes going ok lately.
he gets a tick from me.

[hungry for a premiership]

Now I know that everyone is over the whole RL fiasco and we are all looking forward to the new season, but now that it's all done and dusted, and we can see with some clarity and not through eyes bulging with rage, I am going to need to rehash the scenario one more time, because I believe there is one piece of evidence therein that cannot be disputed that has kind of been overlooked, well, it hasn't been over-looked but it needs to be stated again I feel because I myself have only just fully realised it and it has massive ramifications for our club.

So, there can be absolutely no doubt at all, that it was Nettlefold's intention to resign RL. He had his chance early in the year. Couldv'e signed him off easily. "RESIGN ROSS LYON NOW," read one thread title here on Saintsational back in may 2011. But Nettlefold let it go on too long. he was negligent in his duties. Luckily, though, we landed on our feet - it could turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

The fact remains, though, that Nettlefold didn't do his job. Hence, he'll stuff up again in the future.

I wanted to have a poll, to gauge if the overall perception is like mine, that we have an incompetent man running the club, and that he needs to be punished for cocking up re: RL, but I couldn't figure out how to start one (I guess I'm incompetent too), how do I do this?

Until someone tells me how to start a poll, I'll just ask straight out: Do you have confidence in Nettlefolds ability to run the club even though he has already displayed incompetence? Or do you believe he hasn't displayed incompetence? Or something else? It's all a big conspiracy, perhaps??? That's the only argument that can make Nettlefold out to look good, that it's all a big conspiracy and Nettlefold really wanted RL to go for some reason or another. But the facts are there. He wanted RL to stay. And he could've made him, easily. But he didn't.

Why should have the saints exteneded Lyon's contract 1 & 1/2 years out form when his contract would finish, and when the saints had won 1 game out of out? why would you at least wait until the end of 2011?

To stop other teams from poaching him. They did wait till the end of 2011 and it turned out to be too late. I'm not saying that the new coach may not turn out to be a good thing, but it appears that Nettlefold didn't do his job, as he (seemingly) wanted RL to stay as coach, but failed to sign him.

Maybe after our dismal start to last year and the fact we had missed out on 2 premiership opportunities, Nettlefold himself had some doubts about RL going forward but he wanted to hedge his bets. So he didn't push the issue of the contract extension. It remains to be seen whether he has redeemed himself but his strategy and all the changes that have occurred since RL left may turn out to be a masterful stroke.

This appears as though it could be accurate, but by seasons end it was pretty clear that he wanted RL to stay. Remember the vision of him stressing out the night RL left? Agree that he handled the situation post-RL very well, but should it have ever got to that stage in the first place, where the club was left in the lurch?

The fact remains, though, that Nettlefold didn't do his job. Hence, he'll stuff up again in the future.

Do you know for a "fact" that this wasn't discussed and decided at board level?

The board will be well placed to judge his performance. Outside opinions are largely irrelevant.

No, I'm as ignorant of the facts re: what was discussed at board level as everyone else, BUT judging from Nettlefolds reaction to RL quitting, and from his Footy Classefied interview the night before RL left, and from the fact that the club announced RL had resigned prior to him leaving, from these facts I deduce that Nettlefold and the board wanted RL to stay, and that they could have signed him up had they been more diligent about it, but they failed to do so, therefore it would appear as though he didn't do his job. I don't buy the conspiracy theory that nettlefold and the board really wanted RL gone..

nettlefold got pelchen and ran a very decent selection process for coach. so hes going ok lately.
he gets a tick from me.

Agree wholeheartedly but was it not a case of negligence on Nettlefolds behalf that left us in the lurch back in september last year. Would not that good selection process have still occured had RL stayed.


Look, I hope that the new coach and everything that has been done at the club since RL pays dividends and Nettlefold ends up looking like a genius, BUT if SW fails this year, say we only win 6-9 games and take a step or two backwards, it's going to look very, very bad for Nettlefold and if he's fair dinkum he'll take responsibility for his (large) part in our downfall...

[Mr Magic]

IIRC Lyon changed management during the year (after the initial offers were made to him by the Club).
Apparently the negotiations between the Club (Nettlefold?) and ELite did not take an inordinately long time.

Nelttlefold and Elite negotiated a successful agreement for Lyon to remain.
It's not their faulythe managed to elicit a better offer from elsewhere and chose to move on.

Using the same criteria you are re Nettlefold/Lyon then Brian Cook at Geelong must be a dud as he didn't manage to sign Ablett up to a long term deal before his contract ran out and he took Gold Coast's massive offer.
Lyon's offer from Freo (if the published figures are anywhere close to reality) would, IMHO, be similarly massive for a coach in comparison.

Sometimes it's easier to blame a person you don't like than accept the reality of the situation.

And the reality is that even if we had managed to 'sign up' Lyon on a long term contract it more than likely would have contained a similar 'get out clause' as the existing one did and he may well have 'walked' from it for a much better financial deal.

[crippa2sipa]

the reality is that even if we had managed to 'sign up' Lyon on a long term contract it more than likely would have contained a similar 'get out clause' as the existing one did and he may well have 'walked' from it for a much better financial deal.

You can better your bottom dollar that Fremantle have tied Lyon to the club good and proper.

Lyon hated that "get-out clause". It was part of a package expressly designed to deprive Lyon of the security of a contract-payout, in the event that he was sacked before his term was up.
As has already been explained, Lyon insisted on the get-out clause ONLY because the club itself had insisted on the right to sack him at any time without paying out his contract.

IT is a sign of the utmost idiocy for a club to include such clauses in the contract of a coach who has just coached a near-perfect season and brought us to the brink of a premiership, as he was sure to be hotly in demand by rival clubs.

It is a sign of even greater imbecility (if that is possible) for the club, after the drawn grand final and the grand final rematch in 2010, not to have replaced that insulting contract ASAP with a secure contract on reasonable terms - as Lyon had himself requested when Nettlefold opened negotiations in March 2011.

That Nettlefold (or the Board), in March 2011 was only prepared to offer a 2 year extension with a PAY-CUT plus incentives to the man who'd done so much to secure for our club a windfall of $660,000 (our share of the AFL's takings for the Grand Final Rematch) demonstrates unequivocally that the Board and CEO have no commercial clue where footy is concerned.

[Mr Magic]

the reality is that even if we had managed to 'sign up' Lyon on a long term contract it more than likely would have contained a similar 'get out clause' as the existing one did and he may well have 'walked' from it for a much better financial deal.

You can better your bottom dollar that Fremantle have tied Lyon to the club good and proper.

Lyon hated that "get-out clause". It was part of a package expressly designed to deprive Lyon of the security of a contract-payout, in the event that he was sacked before his term was up.
As has already been explained, Lyon insisted on the get-out clause ONLY because the club itself had insisted on the right to sack him at any time without paying out his contract.

IT is a sign of the utmost idiocy for a club to include such clauses in the contract of a coach who has just coached a near-perfect season and brought us to the brink of a premiership, as he was sure to be hotly in demand by rival clubs.

It is a sign of even greater imbecility (if that is possible) for the club, after the drawn grand final and the grand final rematch in 2010, not to have replaced that insulting contract ASAP with a secure contract on reasonable terms - as Lyon had himself requested when Nettlefold opened negotiations in March 2011.

That Nettlefold (or the Board), in March 2011 was only prepared to offer a 2 year extension with a PAY-CUT plus incentives to the man who'd done so much to secure for our club a windfall of $660,000 (our share of the AFL's takings for the Grand Final Rematch) demonstrates unequivocally that the Board and CEO have no commercial clue where footy is concerned.

Do you have actual knowledge of what you're posting or is it purely your opinion.

If it's purely your opinion of what transpired then how cna you be so positive that is what actually tool place?

If it's actual knowledge of what transpired then I (and I'm sure others) would appreciate wher that knowledge stems from.
Is it the story from one side of the 'argument'?
If so, then that 'story' will be 'tainted' by the biased perspective of that person(s).

You post in such categorical terms that I'm intrigued to know what the basis of your stance is.

And as an aside, you're talking about a contract offer from a Club that has been 'bitten' by long term, non-performance based contracts in its recent history.
You cannot on the one hand decry the 'insulting offer' to Lyon and also decry the 'disastrous' long term contract offered to players like Penny and Hammill.

Surely any Coach worth his salt would not be 'scared' of a contract offer (during negotiations) which offered him a low base payment and large incentives?
Did you feel the same way when Lyon/the Club determined that Luke Ball was only worth 350k rather than his existing 600k salary?
Or was that pragmatic?