Pelchen's Plunder......or Pelchen's Blunders!!!!

[saintsRrising]

Well for mine the trade/draft period was most interesting.

This period is the first of the Pelchen Epoch.

He has certainly put his stamp on our drafting and trading. Whether this turn out to be plunder, or blunder!!!!!!.....only time will tell. Though IMO opinion the signs are promising.

And by plunder I mean obtaining a reasonable number of players who make it long-term, and not every pick as that will never happen.

Like the Lyon Epoch prior, the Pelchen Epoch (or at least in Year One) is characterised by an abundant use of mature players. And by mature, I mean any player old enough to have been picked in a previous years draft., and as such players who could well have the ability to play senior football in their first year.

Markworth while young at 19 years 8 months, now has ten players including, rookies, younger than him on our list.

However unlike the Lyon Epoch much greater use has been made of players who were never AFL players before.

While Lyon is castigated for his perceived lack of youth policy, the Saints did actually turn over the list a lot in 2011. IMO with Lyon it was not really an anti -youth policy, but rather a combination of years of very poor youth-drafting decisions, and that we had a list ripe and ready for a tilt at a flag. However there is little doubt that Lyon, with his focus on his particular gameplan, favoured players who could deliver than plan rigidly, and this favoured more mature players.

Pelchen has with deft trading managed to keep and increase the number of draft picks we had, while also securing two mature players., who while not first rounders are certainly good risk selections and in particular Saad.

So with a combination of youth plus mature players previously passed over the test of the Pelchen Epoch is going to hang fairly and squarely of 1/ talent identification and then 2/ on developing that talent.

On 1/ After many, many seasons of poor draft decisions (ie not trades which IMO on the whole delivered an out-perform), 2011 at last was a drafting year that delivered a bunch of new young players that look likely to deliver a goodly number of long-terms players for the Saints.

The last two drafts we have at last seem to have caught up the required standard. In this last draft Pelchen's wheeling and dealing may well deliver us an out-perform year (relative to picks that we had).

With all bar Wilkes being players who have not played AFL before Pelchen will rise or fall on his and his team ability to spot and prioritise raw talent.

Pelchen has cast the net widely....and best available meant just that...rather than just best-available kid. But when you are drawing players from many different competitions the ability to compare them, and to rank them is all the more difficult. Howe good Pelchen and his recruiters are will unfold over this year and next. Certainly some players need a lot of development and will take time, others will be expected to "show something" very early on.

On 2/ Talk about rags to riches. In terms of player develop the club has gone from minimal (compared to the leading clubs) player development to a most substantive effort. I can't really state whether it is "leading-practice" or not, but it is certainly way above and beyond anything the saints have done in this regard in the past.

While I cannot definitively say that they have taken the right players. I can state that I am very comfortable with the approach that has been taken.

Not everyone at 18 has their head and body right, and mining for older payers is just as valid as mining for young kids.

PELCHEN'S MATURE PLUNDER

Beau Wilkes, 25y 9m and 17th oldest on our list : He is the one player with prior AFL game experience. With the Saints lacking true tall KPP the 194cm and 96 kg Wiles is every chance to play a lot of games in 2012. Moreso as he has the versatility to play at either end of the ground.


Terry Milera, 23 y 11

Ahmed Saad. 22y 2 m. It is early days yet. But Saad has stamped himself along with Wilkes as the two most likely new players to break into the 22 for Round 1. Already with a good physique, the electric Saad has the body and ability to play senior football early.

Sam Dunnell, 21y 10 m. As a rookie he will be most unlikely to play Round 1.

Cameron Shenton , 21 y 2m. A rookie as well. However if good enough he has the capability to step up quickly. While taken as a forward with his pace and footskills you could easily see him on a wing or HBF as well.


Daniel Markworth, 19 y 8 m. The youngest of this "mature" batch of players. However with his pace you can see in him the modern " third tall". The Saints have really stocked up on medium forward options over the last two drafts. Watters has indicated that he wants three marking targets in 2012 and so along with the younger Siposs and the taller Wilkes and Stanley, Markworth while the rawest is definitely in the 2012 mix.

THE CHICKEN AND THE EGG: PELCHEN AND WATTERS:

Well in this case we know which came first!!!!!! However outside of the selection panel (which Pelchen was a key member of) and board the rest of us can only guess as to how much influence Pelchen had in the decision to appoint Watters.

IMO it was large, and that Pelchen's views on how the game will be played in the future would have led to a "best-fit" coach in Watters being appointed to encapsulate that vision.

Now Watters is his own man....and will add details and innovation to the direction started by Pelchen, and most likely will also add some twists that Pelchen had not been thinking of.

2012

How much of our 2012 gameplan will be Watters, and how much will have been given birth to by the list management of Pelchen will no doubt be the subject of many discussion overa frothy or two, or in the Saintastional.

However to be successful you need:
* Good cattle
* A Good coach
* Good resources
* Lady Luck

We may have the first. We certainly have a quality core.
I think we have the second too
Resources have been ramped up considerably. A new broken in training facility and now almost enough coaches to forma team with!!!
but as for lady Luck? Who knows if she will smile at us in 2012 or not.

2012 will see many things at play.
* A new or at least dramatically tweaked gameplan
* New team structures
* New coaches...and this relationships

Can all this gel quickly, or will it need a season to settle???

However Pelchen has set the scene for a reworked 22 with more pace and better footskills coming in.

How quickly this occurs will be in Watters hands. However make no mistake Watters is very much a defensive coach and wants attack on the ball. So he is going to want mature minds and bodies in his 22. How much...ah now there is the fascinating part and I like will many will be watching for this as our season takes shape and rolls on.

While we have recruited many forwards...not all will necessarily play there. In lesser grades the best players are often played in the midfield or up forward. Fisher for example was a forward.

Pelchen and Watters will blend in more pace, but this will occur IMO over the full ground and will not be confined to the FP or HFF.


So roll on 2012 Season. I can't wait.

Will it be Pelchen's Plunder...or Pelchen's Blunder? Time will tell.

[bobmurray]

In terms of recruiting how much say does Elshaug have or is he merely Pelchen's boy

[plugger66]

In terms of recruiting how much say does Elshaug have or is he merely Pelchen's boy

I would think Elshaug picks the young players that will be drafted where as Pelchan decides on trades, recycled players and actually how many picks we will have. Maybe Pelchan also picks the type of player we want so if Elshaug rates 2 players equally then Pelchan may decide we need a small instead of a tall.

[chook23]

In terms of recruiting how much say does Elshaug have or is he merely Pelchen's boy

I would think Elshaug picks the young players that will be drafted where as Pelchan decides on trades, recycled players and actually how many picks we will have. Maybe Pelchan also picks the type of player we want so if Elshaug rates 2 players equally then Pelchan may decide we need a tall instead of a tall.

on the piss early plugger!!!

[plugger66]

In terms of recruiting how much say does Elshaug have or is he merely Pelchen's boy

I would think Elshaug picks the young players that will be drafted where as Pelchan decides on trades, recycled players and actually how many picks we will have. Maybe Pelchan also picks the type of player we want so if Elshaug rates 2 players equally then Pelchan may decide we need a tall instead of a tall.

on the piss early plugger!!!

Think I may be. I will alter that.

[White Winmar]

I think you might be right Bob Murray. Elshaug is a career "yes" man. I reckon Pelchen's the man who makes the decisions. Just as well, too.

[plugger66]

I think you might be right Bob Murray. Elshaug is a career "yes" man. I reckon Pelchen's the man who makes the decisions. Just as well, too.

Wasnt Elshaug in place before last years draft and Pelchan wasnt there then? If he was i think we would be listening to Elshaug as we seemed to do OK out of that draft.

[saintsRrising]

Pretty sure Elshaug did ok last season.


However he is now part of a new team., with Pelchen setting the direction.

Footskills was set as a premium in 2011, and this has remained.

2011/12 combined have garnered us a good pool of young kids.

[SaintPav]

Pelchen is head of football. Does Watters report directly to Pelchen? It certainly seems like it.

Interesting set up.

http://www.saints.com.au/staff/tabid/5410/default.aspx

[philtee]

Nice analysis saintsRrising. You've earned a Christmas beer.
It will be very interesting to see who makes the cut when the first NAB Cup side is named.

[saintsRrising]

It will be very interesting to see who makes the cut when the first NAB Cup side is named.

I always look forward to the pre-season series. Not for the win or loss, but to look at the new blood.

This year even more so for in addition to the new blood their will be a new gameplan and structure on offer.

And then there is the big "A"...the attitude that our players will be exhibiting, and how much they want "it".

[White Winmar]

I think you might be right Bob Murray. Elshaug is a career "yes" man. I reckon Pelchen's the man who makes the decisions. Just as well, too.

Wasnt Elshaug in place before last years draft and Pelchan wasnt there then? If he was i think we would be listening to Elshaug as we seemed to do OK out of that draft.

John Peake was still in charge in the lead up to last year's draft, with JB playing the consultant's role. Elshaug had the training wheels on, with the understanding being he would take over the main role when Peake left. Hope that clears that up. He only played a very minor role in last year's draft.

Elshaug is the one puzzling appointment we've made of late. He has had no prior experience in recruitment and no demonstrated expertise. He just seems to drift from role to role. He's made a nice little, if insignificant career out of kissing ass. Thank god Pelchen's calling the shots.

[St Ick]

What about Ameet? Is he just the fall guy? Im guessing he had a little to do with our recruiting too...

[Spinner]

Surely Markworth can't be considered a mature player...

He is 19. Not 29.

Played TAC cup this year if I am right.

[saintsRrising]

Surely Markworth can't be considered a mature player...

He is 19. Not 29.

Played TAC cup this year if I am right.

For my OP I made a specific definition.

The key point is that Pelchen cast our net far and wide and was happy to take several players who had delayed or interrupted starts to their careers such as Markworth.

Let us hope that like like Sam Fisher that they can continue to bloom.

I am also hoping that our talent identification which be much improved compared to several years back.

[zebraman]

Pelchen is head of football. Does Watters report directly to Pelchen? It certainly seems like it.

Interesting set up.

http://www.saints.com.au/staff/tabid/5410/default.aspx

Would that have been one of the reason Lyon left?...instead of reporting directly to the board he would have been reporting to Pelchen...maybe Lyon would have felt very uncomfortable with that...

[Spinner]

Surely Markworth can't be considered a mature player...

He is 19. Not 29.

Played TAC cup this year if I am right.

For my OP I made a specific definition.

The key point is that Pelchen cast our net far and wide and was happy to take several players who had delayed or interrupted starts to their careers such as Markworth.

Let us hope that like like Sam Fisher that they can continue to bloom.

I am also hoping that our talent identification which be much improved compared to several years back.

It's nothing like Sam Fisher. He was playing seniors in the SANFL as a 21yo.

Markworth was playing U18.. Not really casting the net wide.


I just think that people considering him a mature player will distort their expectations of him next year. It's all expectation management, he is a kid. A youngster. Just like the other draftees bar Wilkes.

[bobmurray]

Pelchen is head of football. Does Watters report directly to Pelchen? It certainly seems like it.

Interesting set up.

http://www.saints.com.au/staff/tabid/5410/default.aspx

Would that have been one of the reason Lyon left?...instead of reporting directly to the board he would have been reporting to Pelchen...maybe Lyon would have felt very uncomfortable with that...

Ask Paul Roos, he reckons Lyin was going to get shafted by the Saints, maybe all they did was take away his autonomy because they didn't want Grant the 2nd running the entire place , they were probably demanding greater emphasis on development and they probably wanted the snake to embrace Sandy.

He bailed and embraced Freo's bank balance....

And the Saints are heading in an entirely different direction..the money hungry snake did the club such a BIG favour by being greedy....anyway, we've done that to death....

[saintly]

saintsRising "While Lyon is castigated for his perceived lack of youth policy, the Saints did actually turn over the list a lot in 2011. IMO with Lyon it was not really an anti -youth policy, but rather a combination of years of very poor youth-drafting decisions, and that we had a list ripe and ready for a tilt at a flag. However there is little doubt that Lyon, with his focus on his particular gameplan, favoured players who could deliver than plan rigidly, and this favoured more mature players"...

i do not know why Lyin turned over the list in 2011. but i think he was pretty anti youth. He had his favourites, and his role players, and i think if the players played the role he wanted, they got a game. Which is why Eddy, McQualter, Dempster, etc got games, and most likely other tewams would never have picked them to be in their best 22.

Noone questioned it much for the first 3-4 years becuase we were winning with this method. but if we look back now you can see that ultimately it was never going to bring about sustained success. We can see this becuase in 2012, the saints, have gone hard brining in players, setting up a development academy.

If they had not started the academy the saints would in the next two years be up the s*** creek,. due to the fact that only natural talented players would be developed on their own.

[saintsRrising]

and i think if the players played the role he wanted, they got a game. .

Personally I find this mindset odd. Why would any coach at any time play any player that would not play the role that the coach wanted???


Look at Neeld taking charge at the Dees...

And coming off a hugely disappointing season, livewire Davey has been given an even more chilling ultimatum – play your part or face demotion.

“If he is unable to play one of those roles then he doesn’t play – it is a simple as that,â€

[saintly]

we are going to find out whether Heyne, Walsh, Mcqualter and Lynch can playe or could be developed.

[saintsRrising]

we are going to find out whether Heyne, Walsh, Mcqualter and Lynch can playe or could be developed.

I think Mini's role at GC is to mentor and develop those playing in the twos....

[BigMart]

Armitage has only had injury issues in 2010....since arriving in 2007......he missed 10 weeks with two separate knee injuries...was back playing by rnd 18...

A dozen were delisted from three drafts without being played for any period of length....

Lynch, Walsh being the most notable....both elsewhere

[saintsRrising]

Armitage has only had injury issues in 2010....since arriving in 2007......he missed 10 weeks with two separate knee injuries...was back playing by rnd 18...

IIRC Armo had a number of minor complaints early on that affected his pre-seasons and his ability to play games at all times in the twos.

At the time of 2009 GF he was carrying an injury, but I cannot recall what it was now.

Still he now has 50 games up after 22 last year, and is now23....so it is his time to shine of he is good enough.

[DWOODROW]

Armitage has only had injury issues in 2010....since arriving in 2007......he missed 10 weeks with two separate knee injuries...was back playing by rnd 18...

IIRC Armo had a number of minor complaints early on that affected his pre-seasons and his ability to play games at all times in the twos.

At the time of 2009 GF he was carrying an injury, but I cannot recall what it was now.Still he now has 50 games up after 22 last year, and is now23....so it is his time to shine of he is good enough.

It was called Lyon soreness.