Burke's Law - How the Saints got our man!

[joffaboy]

Yet they still wanted to employ Ross Lyon even though the club is on the nose and needs to mend relationships with key stakeholders?

What am I missing here?

If Ross stayed it would be a case of 'same old same old'? Or were they going to reign Ross in if he was the cause of all ills.

Sorry Burkey, but I'm not buying.

So you synthesise the whole article into one little dig?

Fair dinkum, you show me ONE coach anywhere in football where everybody is happy with everything the coach does.

Of course the Saints wanted to keep Lyon, and probably would have if it wasn't for some backhanded double dealing from one person in the Saints admin.

This doesn't automatically mean that every single thing Lyon did was popular. Indeed, to be a successful coach you have to be single minded. Maybe that was one of Burkes bugbears, but was happy to wear it because of Lyon's obvious pluses.

There are key stakeholders that need to be soothed, if Lyon had of stayed it would have meant that he wanted to be part of that, wouldn't it? Or dont you think it was ever discussed?

Really, a positive article about a good outcome for the Saints and it is reduced to another smear on a Saints great character

[joffaboy]

Yeah we lost thousands of members because of the closed training sessions we had.

I'm sure many hated having to find the money to go to GF's too.

At least that's been addressed.

No doubt our sponsorship, SC, stadium deal, and general financial woes will be sorted now that evil Ross is gone too.

I'm sure even when your making grand finals, there are still areas to improve as a football club?

No doubt.

But it was a petty swipe, rather a 'nice little backhander', and who really gives a crap about some closed training sessions?

Pretty petulant and pointless comment about the SEN reporter too, especially when....

Blind Freddy will tell you the Saints have an image problem right now and it was important to us that the next coach had strong views and was willing to do whatever necessary to mend relations with key club stakeholders.

Beginning to think the man aint that smart.

More character assasination on a Saints great. Apparently only greats who leave the club like Harvey are affored a bit of respect

As for petulant re the comment about politically correct. You obviously didn't read the article or Claire Prideaux's qualifications in the area of coach recruitment.

Politically correct my arse That hateful mysognist disrespectful and ignorant comment got EXACTLY what it deserves.

Unless of course you agree that woman dont deserve to be or belong in football even if they are more qualified than anyone else.

No just slag off the Saints and the woman with "politically correct", because obviously the weak Saints are pandering to the elite

A bit of respect for Nathan Burke wouldn't go astray. Any other great you have in the gun for defending the club?

[markp]

Really, a positive article about a good outcome for the Saints

They ballsed up the reappointment of a great coach, and took a month (deciding only hours before the end of the trade period) to pick the guy most said we should pick from the start.

We wont know for at least 12 months whether it's a good outcome or not.

[SENsei]

Yet they still wanted to employ Ross Lyon even though the club is on the nose and needs to mend relationships with key stakeholders?

What am I missing here?

If Ross stayed it would be a case of 'same old same old'? Or were they going to reign Ross in if he was the cause of all ills.

Sorry Burkey, but I'm not buying.

So you synthesise the whole article into one little dig?

Fair dinkum, you show me ONE coach anywhere in football where everybody is happy with everything the coach does.

Of course the Saints wanted to keep Lyon, and probably would have if it wasn't for some backhanded double dealing from one person in the Saints admin.

This doesn't automatically mean that every single thing Lyon did was popular. Indeed, to be a successful coach you have to be single minded. Maybe that was one of Burkes bugbears, but was happy to wear it because of Lyon's obvious pluses.

There are key stakeholders that need to be soothed, if Lyon had of stayed it would have meant that he wanted to be part of that, wouldn't it? Or dont you think it was ever discussed?

Really, a positive article about a good outcome for the Saints and it is reduced to another smear on a Saints great character

I've got no problem with Burkey. But I don't agree with his comments. The club board are charged with running the club with relationships with key stakeholders paramount.

Are they only now aware after Ross has left that they have a problem in this area? Were these going to be addressed if Ross stayed.

That is my question after reading the article. Nothing personal against Burkey. He is merely the mouthpiece.

[SainterK]

But it was a petty swipe, rather a 'nice little backhander', and who really gives a crap about some closed training sessions?

After Seaford was finished, I drove past one day to have a look. There was a training session underway, and about 6 security guards around the place.

I watched them escort an elderly couple away who'd walked by to have a look, and must admit it looked excessive.

Anyway, I think that Bourke is making a general example of how disconnected the club has become, not so much that closed training was the be all and end all.

It's more about how they want a coach who will embrace the St Kilda fans, the community and make themselves available through the media....a point that Watters has already made and well IMO.

[SENsei]

But it was a petty swipe, rather a 'nice little backhander', and who really gives a crap about some closed training sessions?

After Seaford was finished, I drove past one day to have a look. There was a training session underway, and about 6 security guards around the place.

I watched them escort an elderly couple away who'd walked by to have a look, and must admit it looked excessive.

Anyway, I think that Bourke is making a general example of how disconnected the club has become, not so much that closed training was the be all and end all.

It's more about how they want a coach who will embrace the St Kilda fans, the community and make themselves available through the media....a point that Watters has already made and well IMO.

Agree with your last point. And that is a good thing.

My point is that it was forced on them by Lyon leaving. If he hadn't left, nothing would have changed and the board would've allowed the relationships to continue to disintegrate.

That is my opinion.

[Dr Spaceman]

But it was a petty swipe, rather a 'nice little backhander', and who really gives a crap about some closed training sessions?

After Seaford was finished, I drove past one day to have a look. There was a training session underway, and about 6 security guards around the place.

I watched them escort an elderly couple away who'd walked by to have a look, and must admit it looked excessive.

Anyway, I think that Bourke is making a general example of how disconnected the club has become, not so much that closed training was the be all and end all.

It's more about how they want a coach who will embrace the St Kilda fans, the community and make themselves available through the media....a point that Watters has already made and well IMO.

Agree with your last point. And that is a good thing.

My point is that it was forced on them by Lyon leaving. If he hadn't left, nothing would have changed and the board would've allowed the relationships to continue to disintegrate.

That is my opinion.

Perhaps, but we don't know for sure.

Maybe this was one of the sticking points that lead to Ross still being unsigned in September and allowed Freo to lure him away?

[SainterK]

But it was a petty swipe, rather a 'nice little backhander', and who really gives a crap about some closed training sessions?

After Seaford was finished, I drove past one day to have a look. There was a training session underway, and about 6 security guards around the place.

I watched them escort an elderly couple away who'd walked by to have a look, and must admit it looked excessive.

Anyway, I think that Bourke is making a general example of how disconnected the club has become, not so much that closed training was the be all and end all.

It's more about how they want a coach who will embrace the St Kilda fans, the community and make themselves available through the media....a point that Watters has already made and well IMO.

Agree with your last point. And that is a good thing.

My point is that it was forced on them by Lyon leaving. If he hadn't left, nothing would have changed and the board would've allowed the relationships to continue to disintegrate.

That is my opinion.

Well Ross (through his mate Paul) put it out there that the situation has become untenable, perhaps they tried?

[SENsei]

But it was a petty swipe, rather a 'nice little backhander', and who really gives a crap about some closed training sessions?

After Seaford was finished, I drove past one day to have a look. There was a training session underway, and about 6 security guards around the place.

I watched them escort an elderly couple away who'd walked by to have a look, and must admit it looked excessive.

Anyway, I think that Bourke is making a general example of how disconnected the club has become, not so much that closed training was the be all and end all.

It's more about how they want a coach who will embrace the St Kilda fans, the community and make themselves available through the media....a point that Watters has already made and well IMO.

Agree with your last point. And that is a good thing.

My point is that it was forced on them by Lyon leaving. If he hadn't left, nothing would have changed and the board would've allowed the relationships to continue to disintegrate.

That is my opinion.

Well Ross (through his mate Paul) put it out there that the situation has become untenable, perhaps they tried?

Quite possibly. I'm willing to concede that is certainly possible.

Something was certainly amiss.

[markp]

Yeah we lost thousands of members because of the closed training sessions we had.

I'm sure many hated having to find the money to go to GF's too.

At least that's been addressed.

No doubt our sponsorship, SC, stadium deal, and general financial woes will be sorted now that evil Ross is gone too.

I'm sure even when your making grand finals, there are still areas to improve as a football club?

No doubt.

But it was a petty swipe, rather a 'nice little backhander', and who really gives a crap about some closed training sessions?

Pretty petulant and pointless comment about the SEN reporter too, especially when....

Blind Freddy will tell you the Saints have an image problem right now and it was important to us that the next coach had strong views and was willing to do whatever necessary to mend relations with key club stakeholders.

Beginning to think the man aint that smart.

More character assasination on a Saints great. Apparently only greats who leave the club like Harvey are affored a bit of respect

As for petulant re the comment about politically correct. You obviously didn't read the article or Claire Prideaux's qualifications in the area of coach recruitment.

Politically correct my arse That hateful mysognist disrespectful and ignorant comment got EXACTLY what it deserves.

Unless of course you agree that woman dont deserve to be or belong in football even if they are more qualified than anyone else.

No just slag off the Saints and the woman with "politically correct", because obviously the weak Saints are pandering to the elite

A bit of respect for Nathan Burke wouldn't go astray. Any other great you have in the gun for defending the club?

He's a member of a board you called a rabble last week.

He should be judged on the job he's doing now, not dining out on his reputation forever more.

[stinger]

Yeah we lost thousands of members because of the closed training sessions we had.

I'm sure many hated having to find the money to go to GF's too.

At least that's been addressed.

No doubt our sponsorship, SC, stadium deal, and general financial woes will be sorted now that evil Ross is gone too.

I'm sure even when your making grand finals, there are still areas to improve as a football club?

No doubt.

But it was a petty swipe, rather a 'nice little backhander', and who really gives a crap about some closed training sessions?

Pretty petulant and pointless comment about the SEN reporter too, especially when....

Blind Freddy will tell you the Saints have an image problem right now and it was important to us that the next coach had strong views and was willing to do whatever necessary to mend relations with key club stakeholders.

Beginning to think the man aint that smart.

[westy]

Yeah we lost thousands of members because of the closed training sessions we had.

I'm sure many hated having to find the money to go to GF's too.

At least that's been addressed.

No doubt our sponsorship, SC, stadium deal, and general financial woes will be sorted now that evil Ross is gone too.

I'm sure even when your making grand finals, there are still areas to improve as a football club?

No doubt.

But it was a petty swipe, rather a 'nice little backhander', and who really gives a crap about some closed training sessions?

Pretty petulant and pointless comment about the SEN reporter too, especially when....

Blind Freddy will tell you the Saints have an image problem right now and it was important to us that the next coach had strong views and was willing to do whatever necessary to mend relations with key club stakeholders.

Beginning to think the man aint that smart.

Geeze, ken get over it already!!!

[perfectionist]

Nathan Burke wrote:

Prideaux was not, as one SEN commentator described, "the politically correct appointee"; which by the way was an extremely derogatory, mindless, naïve and juvenile opinion.

However, removing from radio, or the internet, the opinions of those which are "derogatory, mindless, naïve and juvenile" would render radio silent (perhaps they could play some music) and the internet bereft of "bloggings".

My admiration for Nathan Burke began soon after he began playing for the club. Everything about the way he played the game had class and integrity written all over it. The temperance movement could not hope for a finer model. What he has written about the coach selection process should have been obvious to anyone who knew anything.

And finally, it seems to me that the reason that Ross is no longer our coach, is very similar to the reason Luke Ball was no longer our player - we just couldn't afford the money they could command elsewhere, particularly up front. They both left to a tirade of hate and recriminations, but a shrug of the shoulders would have been a more reasoned response.

Remember, the only difference between treason and reason is a single "t", which reminds me, it's time for a morning cuppa.

[SaintPav]

Really, a positive article about a good outcome for the Saints

They ballsed up the reappointment of a great coach, and took a month (deciding only hours before the end of the trade period) to pick the guy most said we should pick from the start.

We wont know for at least 12 months whether it's a good outcome or not.

Contracted until the end of 2012. Haven't you heard, negotiations are a two way street. Get over it and move on Mark. It's boring.

[saintly]

Really, a positive article about a good outcome for the Saints

They ballsed up the reappointment of a great coach, and took a month (deciding only hours before the end of the trade period) to pick the guy most said we should pick from the start.

We wont know for at least 12 months whether it's a good outcome or not.

i don't believe they did.

saints were 1 win, only in 8 rounds, lyon, wanted 4 year contract he still had 1.5 years to go on his current contract. Just becuase he had no money and ballsed up his own finances, why should the saints renew his contract when he still had 1.5 years to go. at least waiting until the of this year with 1 year to go on his conract makes sense to me.

If the saints had renewed his contract atwith only 1 win ont he board for 4 year contract and the saints only won another 3 games, how would we feel about the Board then?

[markp]

Really, a positive article about a good outcome for the Saints

They ballsed up the reappointment of a great coach, and took a month (deciding only hours before the end of the trade period) to pick the guy most said we should pick from the start.

We wont know for at least 12 months whether it's a good outcome or not.

Contracted until the end of 2012. Haven't you heard, negotiations are a two way street. Get over it and move on Mark. It's boring.

Yup, we don't seem to have a lot of luck in holding people to contracts or negotiating extensions lately.

Watters seems like a great choice, and I hope he turns out to be a much better coach than Lyon... but given the run we've had I don't think it's quite time for high-fives, backslaps and blowing raspberries at the media and our previous coach just yet.

[joffaboy]

Yeah we lost thousands of members because of the closed training sessions we had.

I'm sure many hated having to find the money to go to GF's too.

At least that's been addressed.

No doubt our sponsorship, SC, stadium deal, and general financial woes will be sorted now that evil Ross is gone too.

I'm sure even when your making grand finals, there are still areas to improve as a football club?

No doubt.

But it was a petty swipe, rather a 'nice little backhander', and who really gives a crap about some closed training sessions?

Pretty petulant and pointless comment about the SEN reporter too, especially when....

Blind Freddy will tell you the Saints have an image problem right now and it was important to us that the next coach had strong views and was willing to do whatever necessary to mend relations with key club stakeholders.

Beginning to think the man aint that smart.

More character assasination on a Saints great. Apparently only greats who leave the club like Harvey are affored a bit of respect

As for petulant re the comment about politically correct. You obviously didn't read the article or Claire Prideaux's qualifications in the area of coach recruitment.

Politically correct my arse That hateful mysognist disrespectful and ignorant comment got EXACTLY what it deserves.

Unless of course you agree that woman dont deserve to be or belong in football even if they are more qualified than anyone else.

No just slag off the Saints and the woman with "politically correct", because obviously the weak Saints are pandering to the elite

A bit of respect for Nathan Burke wouldn't go astray. Any other great you have in the gun for defending the club?

He's a member of a board you called a rabble last week.

He should be judged on the job he's doing now, not dining out on his reputation forever more.

So with his explanation of the selection process, which - by and large - looks positive and that they got the right people in to do it, you cherry pick one or two quotes from the article.

And thats right I did and still do call the Admin a rabble, for the financial stuff up that is now our lot, and for the way they treated Ross Lyon, but I will also give credit when it is due.

AND FULL CREDIT TO THE ADMIN FOR THIS SELECTION PROCESS, and for allowing a champion St.Kilda player (and one that hasn't spat the dummy and walked when things got difficult) to relay to the supporters the process of selecting a new coach.

Sorry I am not so rigid to critisise every single thing the board or the Admin does at St.Kilda.

[SaintPav]

Really, a positive article about a good outcome for the Saints

They ballsed up the reappointment of a great coach, and took a month (deciding only hours before the end of the trade period) to pick the guy most said we should pick from the start.

We wont know for at least 12 months whether it's a good outcome or not.

Contracted until the end of 2012. Haven't you heard, negotiations are a two way street. Get over it and move on Mark. It's boring.

Yup, we don't seem to have a lot of luck in holding people to contracts or negotiating extensions lately.

Watters seems like a great choice, and I hope he turns out to be a much better coach than Lyon... but given the run we've had I don't think it's quite time for high-fives, backslaps and blowing raspberries at the media and our previous coach just yet.

Fair enough.

[saintnick12]

Yet they still wanted to employ Ross Lyon even though the club is on the nose and needs to mend relationships with key stakeholders?

What am I missing here?

If Ross stayed it would be a case of 'same old same old'? Or were they going to reign Ross in if he was the cause of all ills.

Sorry Burkey, but I'm not buying.

Or they already tried to reign him in, hence it became untenable?

I have heard a few comments indicating that this might be the case. I don't think they just wanted to rubber stamp the contract, hence how it was dragged out. I think one of the biggest issues seemed to be the general perception of the Saints in the wider football community. While Ross tried to be more open with interviews this year, it was hard for him to shake that seige mentality that he has always had, and reverting to sarcasm etc. I also heard somewhere (maybe here), whispers that the board where also concerned re the game style and its effects on the club's bottom line.

I found the article intereresting overall, just to get a persepective of what kind of work goes into these processes, and how deep they delve into the list etc (necessary of course but a lot of work for the canditates, especially if they are working at another club at the time and don't end up getting the job). Luckily the majority of the serious part of our interview process was after the grand final. I remember hearing Neeld being interviewed when he got his job (which I think was the day or two after Ross left). He talked about how the interview process and how it had been over 4 or 5 weeks. He was still working as midfield coach in the team on top of the ladder who were playing finals right up until he was appointed. Very interesting situation.

[BigMart]

Good Process

We assumed from eports that Watters as a good candidate....only after a thorough process could we be completely satisfied and confident these reports were accurate...

a long way from sold....he would have to win the odd game first...

but if that were the process and he won through....he isnt a chump

I hope he goes well

[saintbrat]

anyone on twitter can get access to other articles from insdie football
https://twitter.com/#!/InsideFooty

[bobmurray]

Good Process

We assumed from eports that Watters as a good candidate....only after a thorough process could we be completely satisfied and confident these reports were accurate...

a long way from sold....he would have to win the odd game first...

but if that were the process and he won through....he isnt a chump

I hope he goes well

Does that mean any game from rounds 1-3-5-7-9-11-13-15-17-19-21..

Odd

[jimmy_slats]

was just reading the inside footy paper and seen a lil snippet asking a few people to say three things they learnt last month. the first thing burkey said was " football contracts are not worth the paper they are printed on." hahha god i love burke!!

[Con Gorozidis]

Who at SEN?

I don't know who at SEN but I do know that Caroline Wilson referred to the coach search panel as "politically correct"

See below for excerpt

"Nettlefold, who yesterday unveiled a politically correct team that would oversee the search for a new coach

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/s ... z1bnLAnpoa

Really angers me. Someone like Caro who is constantly asking for fair treatment as a woman in the football industry - yet when another well qualified woman is employed in a serious role in the industry - instead of applauding it - she criticisies and gets catty. As if to say 'oh i want equal footing as a woman - but no other women deserve it".
Disgraceful comment from Caro. The height of hypocrisy.

Saints selection panel was professional and thorough. Better than the crap the other clubs dished up. We should be proud of the club for it.

(By comparison Melbourne picked a coach on "Gaz" Lyons - gut feel and "Looking into the eyes" of Marke Neeld. What a friggin FARCE). If anyone is criticized it should be Melbourne.