Salary Cap Pressure- Fact or Fiction !!

[Eastern]

Please forgive me for being a little bit confused on this matter but there are a number of aspects to the current speculation that DON'T add up to me;

We are/were NOT over the cap in 2011

The AFL have not released the 2012 cap yet (due for release some time today).

So, with those two facts in mind, can someone explain to me how/why we are/will be under salary cap pressure in 2012.

What I have heard is that we were very close (?99.95%) in 2011 and that we are trying to get that down to around 97-98% in 2012 !!

[saintlee]

I'm no expert on this, but I believe its due to back-ended contracts and bonuses....

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

I'm no expert on this, but I believe its due to back-ended contracts and bonuses....

I believe you are 100% correct!

[stkildathunda]

From what i can work out we will be over next year with current players contracts. Player bonuses etc come into play for previous years. eg GF appearances, B&F's, All Australians....

[evertonfc]

We are over. It's a fact.

The AFL has been incredibly generous in letting us ease our load at trade week. An overdue favour, to say the least.

[stkildathunda]

We are over. It's a fact.

The AFL has been incredibly generous in letting us ease our load at trade week. An overdue favour, to say the least.

We are not over at all. We will be NEXT year if we keep our current contracts. Just cos the Herald Scum prints it doesnt mean its true.

[tweedaletomanning]

We are over. It's a fact.

The AFL has been incredibly generous in letting us ease our load at trade week. An overdue favour, to say the least.

We are not over at all. We will be NEXT year if we keep our current contracts. Just cos the Herald Scum prints it doesnt mean its true.

And the Genius who organised these contracts....

[Con Gorozidis]

IMHO opinion pelchen is gaming this week.

He is putting out a public message - that we are open to trade; and
at the same time he is appeasing fans so IF we trade away a big name - we can say to fans - sorry we had to do it because of SC pressures.

In reality - i dont think we need to trade.

But pelchen is an expert of this game. Having his cake and eating it. Its good PR mgt.

[tweedaletomanning]

IMHO opinion pelchen is gaming this week.

He is putting out a public message - that we are open to trade; and
at the same time he is appeasing fans so IF we trade away a big name - we can say to fans - sorry we had to do it because of SC pressures.

In reality - i dont think we need to trade.

But pelchen is an expert of this game. Having his cake and eating it. Its good PR mgt.

Here's hoping you are right, con..

[markp]

IMHO opinion pelchen is gaming this week.

He is putting out a public message - that we are open to trade; and
at the same time he is appeasing fans so IF we trade away a big name - we can say to fans - sorry we had to do it because of SC pressures.

In reality - i dont think we need to trade.

But pelchen is an expert of this game. Having his cake and eating it. Its good PR mgt.

So the club is choosing to appear to be run by d***heads, rather than a***holes?

Sorry, I don't by that theory at all.

If we are over, it's another balls-up.

[mcadam05]

We are over. It's a fact.

The AFL has been incredibly generous in letting us ease our load at trade week. An overdue favour, to say the least.

If we are over this year how can we change that at the Trade Table??? we could Trade every player on the list but we still have too pay them for the season just gone surely

I would trust in the man that we the club got in too yes Manage the list has too say

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

"I wouldn't say that we're over the cap - that would be wrong. Basically our cap is in a strained position, that's a fair assumption to make, but at the same time, we're not over the cap. We'll be under the cap in 2012. All we're trying to do is manage it in a professional manner." - Chris Pelchen 10/10/2011

[Rosco]

my read on it is that based on the current contracts etc we will be over in 2012 (due to back-ending, delayed bonuses from the 2010 result, and perhaps some youngsters being paid extra on per game contracts this year once the set contract hayes and gwilt went down which has tightened 2011 up from what was expected). a possible way to get under is to trade out some of those contracts or else ask players to take a paycut.

of course this is all pure speculation and could be pelchin spin as mentioned, seems like good work if that's what he's playing at

still, i'm sure the AFL will find some way to link this to the AFLPA negotiations and players wanting too much.

[Buckets]

IMHO opinion pelchen is gaming this week.

He is putting out a public message - that we are open to trade; and
at the same time he is appeasing fans so IF we trade away a big name - we can say to fans - sorry we had to do it because of SC pressures.

In reality - i dont think we need to trade.

But pelchen is an expert of this game. Having his cake and eating it. Its good PR mgt.

So the club is choosing to appear to be run by d***heads, rather than a***holes?

Sorry, I don't by that theory at all.

If we are over, it's another balls-up.

You do realise how complex the Salary Cap and TPP actually are don't you? It's actually quite easy for payments to increase due to injuries and players getting more game time than was envisaged.

[Megsie]

All clubs including the pies have this pressure.

Only difference with the saints is "we get all the trash comments"
from low life journos.

[markp]

IMHO opinion pelchen is gaming this week.

He is putting out a public message - that we are open to trade; and
at the same time he is appeasing fans so IF we trade away a big name - we can say to fans - sorry we had to do it because of SC pressures.

In reality - i dont think we need to trade.

But pelchen is an expert of this game. Having his cake and eating it. Its good PR mgt.

So the club is choosing to appear to be run by d***heads, rather than a***holes?

Sorry, I don't by that theory at all.

If we are over, it's another balls-up.

You do realise how complex the Salary Cap and TPP actually are don't you? It's actually quite easy for payments to increase due to injuries and players getting more game time than was envisaged.

Maybe why we didn't 'play the kids' as much as hoped?

Here's the thing, I don't need to understand all the complexities, they do.

If we are somehow over, it's a balls-up.

"Awww... but it's real complicated" doesn't change that.

And if Everton is on the money, then maybe we dodged a bullet.

[stkildathunda]

SC for next year been announced by Patrick Keane on twitter

TPP amount for '12 represents increase of 7pct on 2011 figure of $8.21 million per club. ASA agreements also increase 7 pct to 613k per club

[Old Mate]

8.78 mill

[BackFromUSA]

So an extra $570k plus an extra $40k marketing service agreement payments.

Gardiner, Baker and McQualter off list and Eddy off rookie list.

Another $600k saved.

Lovett payout no longer counted in our salary cap which was the case for the past 2 years.

So how exactly are we even close to being over the cap for 2012?

It almost seems impossible!

My theory is the "saints salary cap" story has come from player managers who have been fed a line by pelchen etc that there is no extra $s for the likes of Ray, Peake, jones etc because of salary cap at max.

Players have used this knowledge to try to leverage out offers for their players through the media and see what interest they can generate for all their players thinking one or two may have to be traded.

I think Pelchen has been happy to let the story run to see what player swap offers might come from other clubs without putting any of our players on the market (and make them feel unwanted) and now he has started to partially clear up the salary cap story to improve his negotiating position with clubs by saying we don't have to do this deal OR yes we can do the swap you want but you are going to have to pay some of the swapped players salary for us.

Pelchen is either brilliant or just bloody lucky to now be in this great negotiating position at the start of trade week.

[BackFromUSA]

Double post

[noob]

Maybe players signing on this year make it over the cap. Like jack steven for example.

[Con Gorozidis]

IMHO opinion pelchen is gaming this week.

He is putting out a public message - that we are open to trade; and
at the same time he is appeasing fans so IF we trade away a big name - we can say to fans - sorry we had to do it because of SC pressures.

In reality - i dont think we need to trade.

But pelchen is an expert of this game. Having his cake and eating it. Its good PR mgt.

So the club is choosing to appear to be run by d***heads, rather than a***holes?

Sorry, I don't by that theory at all.

If we are over, it's another balls-up.

im saying we arent over.

but in case someone offers something awesome for a big name - we are creating a PR reason.

for instance (i am using an extreme example to show a point here) - lets just say for example GWS offered us 4 first round picks for goddard - then pelchen would take it and then say to fans he had to take it because it of SC concerns.

[Richter]

SO we have a bit of pressure.

Let's look at the other two clubs that have made GFs since 2009....

GEELONG - lost Ablett and Mumford to GC and Swans for way more money than the Cats could offer = LOST players due to the salary cap.

COLLINGWOOD - it is rumoured that Toovey, McCarthy and Dawes may not be able to be re-signed.... because of inadequate $ under the salary cap.

So far, who have St Kilda lost? Ball, and it is arguable that his loss was not due to $ reasons.

Let's just get it into perspective. ALL successful clubs push the limit of the cap and are forced to compromise. If we have to do so, then we will be no different to virtually every successful team over the last decade.

[saintnick12]

SO we have a bit of pressure.

Let's look at the other two clubs that have made GFs since 2009....

GEELONG - lost Ablett and Mumford to GC and Swans for way more money than the Cats could offer = LOST players due to the salary cap.

COLLINGWOOD - it is rumoured that Toovey, McCarthy and Dawes may not be able to be re-signed.... because of inadequate $ under the salary cap.

So far, who have St Kilda lost? Ball, and it is arguable that his loss was not due to $ reasons.

Let's just get it into perspective. ALL successful clubs push the limit of the cap and are forced to compromise. If we have to do so, then we will be no different to virtually every successful team over the last decade.

very true. I have read a couple of times that Cats would have to have traded several premiership players if Ablett had stayed.

I heard John Ralph on SEN tonight comparing us to other top teams of the last few years (cats, pies and hawks) and asking why they haven't had the same issues, when as you point out, the actually have had the same issues. He then went on to lay the blame possibly with Drain and Lyon's feet. With how we went in 09 we really had to have another go last year. All teams vying for a flag are pusing it to the edge with salary cap. Sounds like we'll be over next year unless we make some adjustments which will all play out in the next few days. Fingers crossed it's not one of our favs that goes....they have been quoted as saying there will be changes to the list...it remains to be seen what those changes will be.

[tweedaletomanning]

SO we have a bit of pressure.

Let's look at the other two clubs that have made GFs since 2009....

COLLINGWOOD - it is rumoured that Toovey, McCarthy and Dawes may not be able to be re-signed.... because of inadequate $ under the salary cap.So far, who have St Kilda lost? Ball, and it is arguable that his loss was not due to $ reasons.

Let's just get it into perspective. ALL successful clubs push the limit of the cap and are forced to compromise. If we have to do so, then we will be no different to virtually every successful team over the last decade.

It is rumoured?? Mcarthy ? where did he play in the 3 GF's.

Very weak argument.

If the filth can manage their players, and let's face it, they have TWICE as many top line players as we have, why can't we?

[SainterK]

I've read they are struggling to satisfy Krakouer as they have come to terms with Dawes, and all of McCarthy, Macaffer, Beams and Davis are up in the air.