Problem is the Football Department itself? Cleanout needed?

[sainter173]

Are we getting confused on the problem at the Saints?

Everyone says that it's Nettlefold or Westaway that has caused the issues.

What if part of the problem are people like Elshaug, Hutchison, Beveridge, Ryan, even Hudson?

How come no one mentions these guys? Maybe they are part of the problem and not the solution?

Maybe we need more of a Football Department cleanout - rather than just replacing coaches or fitness people.

Thoughts?

[saintbrat]

I see them as part of the continued development of the saints

Elshaugh has obviously taken to the role given he has stayed following the departure of RL.

I have been pleased to see that the Saints appear to be heading down the path other teams are
and the football department is affectively ruinning in 3 sections
- Football- game day and senior team + fitness
- Recruiting- whilst maybe referring to senior coach they are affectively autonomous and continualy looking to future- other teams have shown this is what is happening- even Freo.
- Development- seperate development coaches/ managers ( Hudson)

it means that when one or even a couple depart it does not disrupt the whole club- awaiting the new coaches thoughts and wishes- - would see there may be discussion and changes when he/ she does But it doesn't mean it must

I guess the next clear division should be Fitness/ Medical/ conditioning - so that again it's not reliant on the senior coach as pivitol figure

this then means continuity and greater board ability to adapt and develop.

[sainter173]

I was thinking along the lines that some of them have been there too long - maybe we need someone new there - instead of the same people for 10 odd years.

Also - discussing that parts of the Football Dept are somewhat compartmentalized - maybe this could be an issue, in that some people might be employed longer without scrutiny - surely all parts of the Football Dept are effected by others without being isolated?

How come we never got Neil Balme? He would have been phenomenal.

[saintbrat]

I was thinking along the lines that some of them have been there too long - maybe we need someone new there - instead of the same people for 10 odd years.

Also - discussing that parts of the Football Dept are somewhat compartmentalized - maybe this could be an issue, in that some people might be employed longer without scrutiny - surely all parts of the Football Dept are effected by others without being isolated?

How come we never got Neil Balme? He would have been phenomenal.

many of the people in the football department have not actually been there that long
Hudson, Elshaugh- in this role, wheadon, Pelchan now all new in this year,
assistant coaches all new-
you need some consistency in recruiting as they develop networks,
Sexton and Ryan appear to be doing a good job and have survived other changes-

not all bad to have people with experience in OUR club rather than changing over each year- especially when you have players there for over 5- 10 year
having to adapt each year would not work well for knowledge of each other and expectations.
Only a couple would have been there for even 5 years.. Bevo maybe- others would all have been included in the last 4 years.

[gringo]

We got Pelchen as a way of overseeing the whole operation. he isn't the recruiter, he is a director that manages the footy department. We have contracts with our assistants and when a new coach is appointed they are often shunted. We may want to encourage frugal spending and take a coach who is willing to work with the existing people- should mean a young guy.

I believe we recruited too many of one type in the last couple of years, midsized forwards were over represented and none has really come on. a footy manager may try to change this obsessive recruiting as directed by the coach at least. Pelchen is much like Balme is at Geelong, hopefully he takes us to a more professional level.

[saintsRrising]

Basically we are already having a cleanout.

Pelchen has only just arrived.

Will soon have a new Head Coach...and that will mean probably all new, or mainly new assistant coaches

Misson is gone.

So we hare already in the midst of a radical cleanout anyway.

[Junction Oval]

Saintbrat said in part :

the football department is affectively ruinning in 3 sections
- Football- game day and senior team + fitness
- Recruiting- whilst maybe referring to senior coach they are affectively autonomous and continualy looking to future- other teams have shown this is what is happening- even Freo.
- Development- seperate development coaches/ managers ( Hudson)

it means that when one or even a couple depart it does not disrupt the whole club- awaiting the new coaches thoughts and wishes ...

I guess the next clear division should be Fitness/ Medical/ conditioning - so that again it's not reliant on the senior coach as pivitol figure

In response to the PO, I think that you are correct and reflecting on what has been a very very poor set-up in the past, particularly in the recruiting area, which is still impacting on us today. The structure that Saintbrat set-out should help to compartmentise things. Recruiting today is all about setting up "contacts/networks," so stability of staff is needed - the trick is, to get "the best" people!

[sainter173]

What about Hutchison - he's been there for years now - maybe he should be shown the door?

[Eastern]

What about Hutchison - he's been there for years now - maybe he should be shown the door?

Has he done something wrong? !!

[saintbrat]

What about Hutchison - he's been there for years now - maybe he should be shown the door?

again not as long as you may imagine- was casey Coach when we were first aligned and came across to the Saints when we left there or just before..

[sainter173]

It's tough to appreciate that we are one club that hasn't produced players or administrators from within to work at other clubs.

In fact, St Kilda is probably one club that hasn't developed spectacular people from within and exported them to other teams.

Geelong has done it; West Coast, Collingwood, Essendon, Adelaide, North Melbourne, Carlton, Sydney, etc., have done it.

But not St Kilda.

[Eastern]

It's tough to appreciate that we are one club that hasn't produced players or administrators from within to work at other clubs.

In fact, St Kilda is probably one club that hasn't developed spectacular people from within and exported them to other teams.

Geelong has done it; West Coast, Collingwood, Essendon, Adelaide, North Melbourne, Carlton, Sydney, etc., have done it.

But not St Kilda.

Yabby Jeans. Hawthorn? !!

[saintsRrising]

It's tough to appreciate that we are one club that hasn't produced players or administrators from within to work at other clubs.


But not St Kilda.

You jest?????

Jeans. Arguably the best coach ever....

Stewart
Lockett
Perovic
Greene
Hall
Ball

and a truckload of other players...
etc etc...



and dare I say it...Lyon...head coach with us and now Freo

[sainter173]

I do not mean St Kilda players becoming players on other teams.

Instead, players (or coaches/administrators) becoming successful off-field people (coaching, administration, etc) at other clubs.

We're not a factory for this. Unlike other clubs.

Sigh.

[gringo]

I do not mean St Kilda players becoming players on other teams.

Instead, players (or coaches/administrators) becoming successful off-field people (coaching, administration, etc) at other clubs.

We're not a factory for this. Unlike other clubs.

Sigh.

We won't mention the Melbourne Storm and Rebels poaching our talent then?

[Eastern]

I do not mean St Kilda players becoming players on other teams.

Instead, players (or coaches/administrators) becoming successful off-field people (coaching, administration, etc) at other clubs.

We're not a factory for this. Unlike other clubs.

Sigh.

Danny Frawley, CEO of the AFL Coaches Association? !!

[joffaboy]

I do not mean St Kilda players becoming players on other teams.

Instead, players (or coaches/administrators) becoming successful off-field people (coaching, administration, etc) at other clubs.

We're not a factory for this. Unlike other clubs.

Sigh.

Danny Frawley, CEO of the AFL Coaches Association? !!

Harvey
Hughton
Cripps

just three of late.

[saintbrat]

I do not mean St Kilda players becoming players on other teams.

Instead, players (or coaches/administrators) becoming successful off-field people (coaching, administration, etc) at other clubs.

We're not a factory for this. Unlike other clubs.

Sigh.

Danny Frawley, CEO of the AFL Coaches Association? !!

Harvey
Hughton
Cripps

just three of late.

Tudor- although he was already succesful
Silvagne
Lyon.

maybe correct when you think of administeators though- but give them time..
Football departments get raided when they win.

[joffaboy]

I do not mean St Kilda players becoming players on other teams.

Instead, players (or coaches/administrators) becoming successful off-field people (coaching, administration, etc) at other clubs.

We're not a factory for this. Unlike other clubs.

Sigh.

Danny Frawley, CEO of the AFL Coaches Association? !!

Harvey
Hughton
Cripps

just three of late.

Tudor- although he was already succesful
Silvagne
Lyon.

maybe correct when you think of administeators though- but give them time..
Football departments get raided when they win.

Archie Fraser, the CEO whose son played for us.

[saintly]

It's tough to appreciate that we are one club that hasn't produced players or administrators from within to work at other clubs.

In fact, St Kilda is probably one club that hasn't developed spectacular people from within and exported them to other teams.

Geelong has done it; West Coast, Collingwood, Essendon, Adelaide, North Melbourne, Carlton, Sydney, etc., have done it.

But not St Kilda.

and what happens lately is that the players who leave or retire, get upset with the saints and don't come back (except harvey) eg baker, our fullback, most of our previous coaches, most of our old assistants

[Legendary]

We have some outstanding people in our football department.

Greg Hutchinson has worked at a number of AFL clubs - people forget that he was touted for a number of senior jobs in the 90's (and indeed coached Melbourne for a brief period) ... been highly respected for a long time.

Chris Pelchen - enough has been said. Excellent pedigree.

Paul Hudson had good wraps on him for his worth with the youth at Collingwood, and the development of Siposs, Cripps, Ledger etc. as first year players (notwithstanding injury) seemed good.

Tony Elshaug has just started in the recruiting side of things. But was Pagan's right hand man for a decade. You don't sit next to Dennis Pagan and talk football every day for 10 years without being a switched on bloke. I've sat next to him for 5 minutes and he doesn't suffer fools.

[gringo]

It's tough to appreciate that we are one club that hasn't produced players or administrators from within to work at other clubs.

In fact, St Kilda is probably one club that hasn't developed spectacular people from within and exported them to other teams.

Geelong has done it; West Coast, Collingwood, Essendon, Adelaide, North Melbourne, Carlton, Sydney, etc., have done it.

But not St Kilda.

and what happens lately is that the players who leave or retire, get upset with the saints and don't come back (except harvey) eg baker, our fullback, most of our previous coaches, most of our old assistants

I would have thought Max, Baker and Ball all had issues with a former coach?

[savatage]

Too many of our supporters jump at shadows....can all the panic & blame game merchants please take a chill pill for the coming weeks?

[saintsRrising]

and what happens lately is that the players who leave or retire, get upset with the saints and don't come back (except harvey) eg baker, our fullback, most of our previous coaches, most of our old assistants

One is our CEO, two are on the Board...two were assistant coaches this year. Not sure how many former players that we can have in capacities at the club at any one time before it is too many given the talent pool that is out there of non-StKilda people.......

It is pretty normal at most clubs that some players are told to stop playing before they choose too, and in those situations often some angst exists for a little bit.