After seeing a first year coach deliver a premiership, and the comments from people that its the cattle that matters. I am curious to know what people think about the impact of coaches.
In F1 most pundits agree that the car is 70-80% of the equation the rest is the driver.
In motogp - it is more like 50% bike 50% rider.
How would you allocate the percentages for an AFL side? What importance do you place on the senior coach? What about the assistants?
Is the role to be a motivator or a strategist?
A teacher of skills or a match day tactician?
If you were to allocate 100% to senior coach, assistant coaches, team...what would they be?[/code]
The impact of a senior coach
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St Chris
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Hmmm interesting.
I think it depends on what sort of playing list you have. I think we're pretty lucky, we have a strong core with good leadership skills, who seem to be fairly self motivated.
Compare us, to say, a club like Port Adelaide, a lot of youngsters, limited leadership etc, the ratios would differ greatly.
The playing group certainly have the most impact. Their abilities, their skill levels, their mental capacities and strength, and their physical capabilities, all determine how successful any organisation will be.
The coaches, as a group, need to devise / implements a game style that suits the strengths and weaknesses of that playing group. So the playing group dictates how much the coaches impact that.
Opposition analysis is extremely important in today's game. When nearly every side has structures and processes in place, if you have an effective way to analyse and break down each club's style, you'll go a long way.
Strength and conditioning is incredibly important. The resources each club pours into this can make the difference between top 4 and bottom 4, just look at a side like Freo. Went from a very good top 4 side, to a very average one, because they couldn't get anywhere near their best side on the park for the whole year.
The line coaches (including fitness/conditioning) seem to have a lot of say in specific match-ups, and game plans for their particular area (ie. isolating a guy like Nick Maxwell etc.) as well as the specific needs of the group during the week.
The senior coach obviously oversees and organises all of this. He ensures each line coach has considered every possibility, and that the players are prepared mentally for each match. They also take on the motivational role, being able to relate to each player in a manner that affects them the most, be it sitting down in a corner for a one-on-one chat, or blasting a guy in front of the whole playing group, stripping the paint off the walls while you're at it.
I think the ratios in the modern game, would be something like:
40% playing group
25% strength/conditioning/fitness
15% line coaches
10% opposition analysis
10% senior coach
Give or take 5% either way.
I think it depends on what sort of playing list you have. I think we're pretty lucky, we have a strong core with good leadership skills, who seem to be fairly self motivated.
Compare us, to say, a club like Port Adelaide, a lot of youngsters, limited leadership etc, the ratios would differ greatly.
The playing group certainly have the most impact. Their abilities, their skill levels, their mental capacities and strength, and their physical capabilities, all determine how successful any organisation will be.
The coaches, as a group, need to devise / implements a game style that suits the strengths and weaknesses of that playing group. So the playing group dictates how much the coaches impact that.
Opposition analysis is extremely important in today's game. When nearly every side has structures and processes in place, if you have an effective way to analyse and break down each club's style, you'll go a long way.
Strength and conditioning is incredibly important. The resources each club pours into this can make the difference between top 4 and bottom 4, just look at a side like Freo. Went from a very good top 4 side, to a very average one, because they couldn't get anywhere near their best side on the park for the whole year.
The line coaches (including fitness/conditioning) seem to have a lot of say in specific match-ups, and game plans for their particular area (ie. isolating a guy like Nick Maxwell etc.) as well as the specific needs of the group during the week.
The senior coach obviously oversees and organises all of this. He ensures each line coach has considered every possibility, and that the players are prepared mentally for each match. They also take on the motivational role, being able to relate to each player in a manner that affects them the most, be it sitting down in a corner for a one-on-one chat, or blasting a guy in front of the whole playing group, stripping the paint off the walls while you're at it.
I think the ratios in the modern game, would be something like:
40% playing group
25% strength/conditioning/fitness
15% line coaches
10% opposition analysis
10% senior coach
Give or take 5% either way.
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older saint
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By the time a players gets to an AFL team he is talented and has the basic skills to become a footballer.
The individual and his attitude will then dictate a large portion of how far he goes. The talented will either become great ( C Judd) or get by and wate away to a mediocre career ( T Johnstone).
Footy however is a team game and a chain is only a good as the weakest link. A coach must get these links together and get 30+ players, who were all stars one way or another in juniors, to sacrifice and buy in to a plan.
Mathouse, Lyon, Thompson did this in recent times. Geelong this year wanted a coach to come in and give them a new plan, the players had already bought in they just needed to be directed. The attitude of the players to sacrifice for each other is huge.
History shows great individuals at poor clubs .
In answer then to the initial question
players ability 50%
players attitude 20%
coaches nous 30%
The breakdown can vary on teams however good caoches have great people around them and can delegate. The main part is match day reaction which i think takes about 10% or the 30% in total
You cannot win without talent but you also cannot win without a good coach and a group which are committed to the cause and will sacrifice their own game for the good of the team
The individual and his attitude will then dictate a large portion of how far he goes. The talented will either become great ( C Judd) or get by and wate away to a mediocre career ( T Johnstone).
Footy however is a team game and a chain is only a good as the weakest link. A coach must get these links together and get 30+ players, who were all stars one way or another in juniors, to sacrifice and buy in to a plan.
Mathouse, Lyon, Thompson did this in recent times. Geelong this year wanted a coach to come in and give them a new plan, the players had already bought in they just needed to be directed. The attitude of the players to sacrifice for each other is huge.
History shows great individuals at poor clubs .
In answer then to the initial question
players ability 50%
players attitude 20%
coaches nous 30%
The breakdown can vary on teams however good caoches have great people around them and can delegate. The main part is match day reaction which i think takes about 10% or the 30% in total
You cannot win without talent but you also cannot win without a good coach and a group which are committed to the cause and will sacrifice their own game for the good of the team
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Con Gorozidis
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Never in the history of the AFL or sport have we havd a better chance to judge the impact of coaches than with identical twins coaching.
Sure - some people will tell me how chris and brad are different people and blah blah blah. But for all intents and purposes they are probably pretty similar in coaching ability.
So using this unprecendented and probably unrepeatable experiment - it is fair to say that coaches are important (Chris Scott did a great job) - but the cattle are still the most important thing. Geelong players are clearly a fair bit better all round than the Kangaroo players. Could Brad have done the same job with the Cats? Probably.
And also - history shows coach fatigue sets in between 5 and 10 years.
I hate to say it - but if Bucks is even half decent the pies could easily win the flag again next year.
Sure - some people will tell me how chris and brad are different people and blah blah blah. But for all intents and purposes they are probably pretty similar in coaching ability.
So using this unprecendented and probably unrepeatable experiment - it is fair to say that coaches are important (Chris Scott did a great job) - but the cattle are still the most important thing. Geelong players are clearly a fair bit better all round than the Kangaroo players. Could Brad have done the same job with the Cats? Probably.
And also - history shows coach fatigue sets in between 5 and 10 years.
I hate to say it - but if Bucks is even half decent the pies could easily win the flag again next year.
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borderbarry
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Junction Oval
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asiu
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gringo
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There are some set ideas in footy and as analysed as it all is we still don't know why sometimes it all clicks. I think a good coach is a good coach but a bad communicator/ motivator or disorganised individual who is unable to delegate to his support staff can stuff it all up. Putting set percentages on any of it is impossible, sometimes the poor players in a team are the right poor players to support the deficiencies of the stars. Sometimes the strength is over a whole team including support staff not the some of it's parts.
You need to have talent and motivation coupled with belief to be a successful team. When you fall away the belief disappears and is hard to regain regardless of talent.
Recruiting is still a lottery and will always be, you never know when you will get a Tambling or a Buddy even in the top 10 picks. Star players should always be retained while in their prime because they are money in the bank.
You need to have talent and motivation coupled with belief to be a successful team. When you fall away the belief disappears and is hard to regain regardless of talent.
Recruiting is still a lottery and will always be, you never know when you will get a Tambling or a Buddy even in the top 10 picks. Star players should always be retained while in their prime because they are money in the bank.
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gringo
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the only problem is that their individual stints learning the coaching IP from the people around them may have a contribution to the outcome.Con Gorozidis wrote:Never in the history of the AFL or sport have we havd a better chance to judge the impact of coaches than with identical twins coaching.
Sure - some people will tell me how chris and brad are different people and blah blah blah. But for all intents and purposes they are probably pretty similar in coaching ability.
So using this unprecendented and probably unrepeatable experiment - it is fair to say that coaches are important (Chris Scott did a great job) - but the cattle are still the most important thing. Geelong players are clearly a fair bit better all round than the Kangaroo players. Could Brad have done the same job with the Cats? Probably.
And also - history shows coach fatigue sets in between 5 and 10 years.
I hate to say it - but if Bucks is even half decent the pies could easily win the flag again next year.