I fully back the board

[bigred]

Vintage B4E...

Ala 2006.

Gold.

[Johnny Member]

This is the interesting bit....


The contention that St Kilda was too slow to re-sign him and that it some­how inadvertently forced him to look elsewhere is rubbish.
The truth is that his former manager was Ricky Nixon, and after Nixon's messy demise Lyon engaged another agent to act on his behalf.
That agent was unsatisfactory to both St Kilda and Lyon and about six weeks ago Lyon advised St Kilda that Craig Kelly, of Elite Sports Properties, would be handling his negotiations.
At that stage terms were almost agreed, but Kelly barrelled in and wanted changes.
More negotiations followed and with the finals bearing down all parties agreed to put talks on hold.


My belief still is, that they wanted Lyon to stay, but also wanted some things to change. I'm guessing his list management strategy, and the game plan. Perhaps also, the board may have wanted a look into what was actually going on inside his 'bubble'. Perhaps they wanted the fans to be allowed a peak too - afterall, they're the ones paying the bills!
And I don't think he wanted to change. As a coach, I don't blame him for that - but I certainly don't blame the board for insisting that some things had to change. I totally agree with them on that for what it's worth.


So basically, the club wanted stability but a change in strategy. Lyon wanted a job but was reluctant to change.
When the opportunity arose that he could have a job with a juicy pay rise, and he didn't have to change anything, he snapped it up.


So he's happy, and the club is probably quite happy too. They miss out on the stability part, but get the changes they felt they needed to prosper off-field.


So really, I don't see a f*** up at all. I think it's win-win and in my personal opinion, the only loser will be Fremantle.


I'm happy with the club, and the board on this one.

And I'm really excited about watching us rebuild.

[Johnny Member]

An interesting quote too....

One highly respected figure said: "He's better off out of the place. At least we won't have a culture of fear operating now. And we won't have to replace four assistant coaches that he burns off every year."

[markp]

It is disappointing that Ross saw our initial offer of a two-year extension as insulting; that certainly wasn't our intention. And as you would expect, when the request of a four-year $2.6 million unconditional contract was received, the board wanted to consider it carefully.

Yes, we took our time because we've all seen what financial mismanagement and lack of rigour can do to football clubs. It would be irresponsible of the board not to be prudent and if ultimately this is why Ross Lyon left the club, we take responsibility for that, but stand by our process.

That's from a board member.

A deal was able to be organised in the end by Lyon without a manager, I'm sure something similar could've been arranged 6 months earlier.

I dont care how many assistants he 'burned off', or who within the admin or board didn't like him personally for that matter, maybe the boot studder and receptionist are glad he's gone too?? Pfft...... I liked getting into GF's, and I reckon we would've won one with him (and that he will be a premiership coach)... as it stands now we dont have a coach at all, and who the hell knows what's in store.

But hey, as long as the board and CEO are all giddy with excitement, and no one down there's taking it too hard..... everything's awesome.

[Johnny Member]

I liked getting into GF's, and I reckon we would've won one with him (and that he will be a premiership coach)... as it stands now we dont have a coach at all, and who the hell knows what's in store.

That's obviously where people are going to disagree. Personally, I can't for the life of me see how he would coach us into another GF in the forseeable future.

But hey, as long as the board and CEO are all giddy with excitement, and no one down there's taking it too hard..... everything's awesome.

I reckon 'everything's awesome' because of what you wrote above, and the fact that I disagree with it.

I think we were done under him. And I had no confidnce in his game plan and the ability to rebuild a team from scratch.


Not because of what the board think neccessarily, but because I think Lyon is yesterday's man.

[Johnny Member]

I liked getting into GF's...

But you've got to recognise, that it seems that not all Saints fans were happy.

Making 2 GFs and not being able to get people to watch on TV, or come to games, or buy memberships strongly suggests that simply winning 60% of games and losing Grand Finals wasn't enough.

If people weren't buying the 'product' whilst the team was winning, what the hell would have happened whilst we rebuild down the bottom!

[markp]

I liked getting into GF's...

But you've got to recognise, that it seems that not all Saints fans were happy.

Making 2 GFs and not being able to get people to watch on TV, or come to games, or buy memberships strongly suggests that simply winning 60% of games and losing Grand Finals wasn't enough.

If people weren't buying the 'product' whilst the team was winning, what the hell would have happened whilst we rebuild down the bottom!

Huh?

Haven't we been the second most watched team in recent years?

Don't we have record membership?

How will all the above go if we're being 'rebuilt' and languishing under the likes of an Ayers or Eade?

But hey, as long as he can join in the love and laugh fest down there with 'Netters' and the boys.....

[SainterK]

Mark, do you think it's a worry that 7500 members didn't renew this year?

It surprises me that we were the second most watched team, though I guess we were given quite a few 'blockbusters' in good time slots this year.

Does anyone have the figures for this year alone?

I seem to recall more often that not the last few years, quite the public hoo-ha about ugly footy, and that most neutral fans admit to changing channels.

Don't confuse this with my own opinion, just the overall vibe I thought was out there during the last couple of years.

[markp]

I think we were done under him. And I had no confidnce in his game plan and the ability to rebuild a team from scratch.


Not because of what the board think neccessarily, but because I think Lyon is yesterday's man.

Our board disagrees... they wanted him for 4 years, unconditionally... in the end.

The Freo board disagrees... has a coach ever been offered or paid more?

Who knows, we may now get a better coach (fingers crossed) and Lyon may sink without a trace, but what are the odds?

He wanted a deal, they dithered, somehow managing to destroy the relationship in the process... and we were gazumped at the last.

In spite of how many are trying to paint it, it's not a good outcome.

[Johnny Member]

I think we were done under him. And I had no confidnce in his game plan and the ability to rebuild a team from scratch.


Not because of what the board think neccessarily, but because I think Lyon is yesterday's man.

Our board disagrees... they wanted him for 4 years, unconditionally... in the end.

The Freo board disagrees... has a coach ever been offered or paid more?

Who knows, we may now get a better coach (fingers crossed) and Lyon may sink without a trace, but what are the odds?

He wanted a deal, they dithered, somehow managing to destroy the relationship in the process... and we were gazumped at the last.

In spite of how many are trying to paint it, it's not a good outcome.

The 'unconditional' part was in regards to no get out clauses I thought - not in regards to anything else. I still have an opinion that they wanted changes to his style.

Clearly Freo disagree though, and I disagree with them. And I could well be wrong - it wouldn't be the first time!



Personally, I reckon it's a great outcome though. I actually haven't been this excited about the club and the footy in general for some time.

[markp]

Mark, do you think it's a worry that 7500 members didn't renew this year?

It surprises me that we were the second most watched team, though I guess we were given quite a few 'blockbusters' in good time slots this year.

Does anyone have the figures for this year alone?

I seem to recall more often that not the last few years, quite the public hoo-ha about ugly footy, and that most neutral fans admit to changing channels.

Don't confuse this with my own opinion, just the overall vibe I thought was out there during the last couple of years.

Aren't we less than a thousand down on last year?

Don't thousands drop off ever year, for all clubs?

Didn't we have a few damaging scandals early on this year, and a poor start?

We've been the second most watched team because of the slots we were given... you win games and make GF's, you get the slots, I would've thought.

And speaking as a Saints fan, I've never ever found a single win to be 'boring'... AFAIC, every impartial person watching who may consider themselves less than thoroughly entertained by this can go jump.

[markp]

Personally, I reckon it's a great outcome though. I actually haven't been this excited about the club and the footy in general for some time.

No coach and an ever diminishing/all in the balance glimmer of being a contender again anytime soon... good times.

[SainterK]

AFAIC, every impartial person watching who may consider themselves less than thoroughly entertained by this can go jump.

Sure, as a Saints fan, though if you were on the board you may think differently.

If you had to pitch to sponsors, sell stadium signage etc

Either the board are struggling in these areas for no good reason, or they were justified in their concerns, I guess we'll find out in 2012.

I guess the part I differ a little to Johnny, is that I don't believe the board should ever tell the football department what style of footy to play.

You either buy in, or you don't IMO.

[markp]

AFAIC, every impartial person watching who may consider themselves less than thoroughly entertained by this can go jump.

Sure, as a Saints fan, though if you were on the board you may think differently.

If you had to pitch to sponsors, sell stadium signage etc

Either the board are struggling in these areas for no good reason, or they were justified in their concerns, I guess we'll find out in 2012.

I guess the part I differ a little to Johnny, is that I don't believe the board should ever tell the football department what style of footy to play.

You either buy in, or you don't IMO.

Agree 100% with the last point... who knows what lead to the relationship breakdown?

As for the earlier one... I reckon if they're pinning any of our financial woes on RL then maybe B4E is right. Gee I hope they're not.

[Leo.J]

...Don't we have record membership?...

Most clubs have recorded record memberships over the last few years.

After finishing 2nd for the 2nd year in a row our membership numbers only increased by a few hundred.

As as far as being the most watched or 2nd.

Thats because we played in 2 grand finals in 2 weeks... that stat is pretty irrelevant imo.

2nd most watched for the H&A season would be a good result, btu I'd say we'd be way down the list on that one.

[GrumpyOne]

There was no dithering.

If a coach comes to you, with his current win/loss ratio of 1 to 7, and wants a three year extension at increased dollars, you'd be bananas to give it to him straight away.

You are facing the possibility of four years with a burnt-out coach? Get real.

The board acted responsibly, RL acted in his own best interests.

End of story.

[markp]

...Don't we have record membership?...

Most clubs have recorded record memberships over the last few years.

After finishing 2nd for the 2nd year in a row our membership numbers only increased by a few hundred.

As as far as being the most watched or 2nd.

Thats because we played in 2 grand finals in 2 weeks... that stat is pretty irrelevant imo.

2nd most watched for the H&A season would be a good result, btu I'd say we'd be way down the list on that one.

I agree it's irrelevant, but I was responding to this misrepresentation...

But you've got to recognise, that it seems that not all Saints fans were happy.

Making 2 GFs and not being able to get people to watch on TV, or come to games, or buy memberships strongly suggests that simply winning 60% of games and losing Grand Finals wasn't enough.

If people weren't buying the 'product' whilst the team was winning, what the hell would have happened whilst we rebuild down the bottom!

[SainterK]

...Don't we have record membership?...

Most clubs have recorded record memberships over the last few years.

After finishing 2nd for the 2nd year in a row our membership numbers only increased by a few hundred.

As as far as being the most watched or 2nd.

Thats because we played in 2 grand finals in 2 weeks... that stat is pretty irrelevant imo.

2nd most watched for the H&A season would be a good result, btu I'd say we'd be way down the list on that one.

Hadn't though of it that way, but yes, you'd have to say that the GF bumps up the numbers if it's included in the overall views.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/s ... 5860855366

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news ... 1dr0c.html

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/r ... 5861078663

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/h ... 6032213004

[barks4eva]

Mark, do you think it's a worry that 7500 members didn't renew this year?

Nice spin there, K.... I'm sure there would be a position for you on the footy first ticket at the next election!

FACT is we had a record membership this year!

Most members in the history of the club ever!

Obviously more members joined up than dropped off unless the board did something dodgy and fudged with the figures!

I would not rule that out!

But the official figure reads that we had more members than last year..... just a small bit of info you chose to not include in your post!




FTR IMO the club will struggle to get 35,000 next year....I'm estimating about 33,000 members....around 7,000 less than this year!

[GrumpyOne]

FTR IMO the club will struggle to get 35,000 next year....I'm estimating about 33,000 members....around 7,000 less than this year!

I would agree with that estimate... the feeble-minded and fickle-intentioned supporters will drop off.... only the rusted-on supporters will remain.

[SainterK]

Mark, do you think it's a worry that 7500 members didn't renew this year?

Nice spin there, K.... I'm sure there would be a position for you on the footy first ticket at the next election!

FACT is we had a record membership this year!

Most members in the history of the club ever!

Obviously more members joined up than dropped off unless the board did something dodgy and fudged with the figures!

I would not rule that out!

But the official figure reads that we had more members than last year..... just a small bit of info you chose to not include in your post!

FTR IMO the club will struggle to get 35,000 next year....I'm estimating about 33,000 members....around 7,000 less than this year!

You reckon?

Really appreciate your endorsement Barks.

Anyways back to the topic, what was the difference between 2010 and 2011 members wise, keeping in mind that it was our second GF appearance in a row?

[markp]

If a coach comes to you, with his current win/loss ratio of 1 to 7, and wants a three year extension at increased dollars, you'd be bananas to give it to him straight away.

You are facing the possibility of four years with a burnt-out coach? Get real.

Maybe you're right, and maybe that's what happened.

But we'd also been taken to consecutive GF's... yet it would seem they somehow managed to so handle his approach that it destroyed the relationship.

Personally, I reckon if he'd come to us then with such a request, given the perspective of looking back over his entire tenure, we should've been able to decide if he was the man to take us forward or not, and either said yes or no, virtually then an there.... because as everyone should know, some opportunities only come once.

[barks4eva]

If a coach comes to you, with his current win/loss ratio of 1 to 7, and wants a three year extension at increased dollars

At increased dollars,....oh really.....have you been talking with the board?

KEEP IT REAL

For a start do I need to quote Nathan Burke?

2.6 million for four years unconditional

650,000 a year.....does not sound like extra money!

It does however sound like Lyon wanted security for four years without GET OUT CLAUSES knowing he would now have to play kids and regenerate the list!

When the board wanted to put things on hold for their so called "process", it would also seem that Lyon then chose to coach for the now!



You claim a win loss ratio of 1 to 7



At the end of April we were


ONE WIN ONE DRAW AND TWO LOSSES with a BYE!

One of these losses was when Blake had a brain fade in the last 50 seconds and we lost by one point to Geelong!

I have been told by a reliable source that the offer from Lyon to the board came between round three and five!

We had the bye in round four

It does seem reasonable to assume that the contract discussion were during the bye week in April!

So we were actually

ONE DRAW and TWO LOSSES when the offer was made if this information is correct.

If Lyon's offer to the board came later in April then we won our next game!


We were NEVER 1 and 8 or one from 8 at anytime OR 1 to 7 as you wrote

1 win 1 draw 5 losses after 8 with two losses by 1 point and 3 points!



One thing that is consistent though is the sloppy, lazy, ignorant dishing up of codswallop from those who are defending the board's actions!


KEEP IT REAL!

[Dr Spaceman]

At increased dollars,....oh really.....have you been talking with the board?

Have you????????????

[markp]

Anyways back to the topic, what was the difference between 2010 and 2011 members wise, keeping in mind that it was our second GF appearance in a row?

About a thousand, I think.

Not really possible to extrapolate much from that... could be a natural plateau, could be our many 'scandals'... and in any event, it's hardly a significant drop.