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bergholt wrote:f*** you guys sook a lot at anything critical of the club. both connolly and ralph in separate newspapers mention this issue. maybe they're right?
I'm pretty sure there is a thread on here complimenting Ralph, and the way he has gone about it.
I cannot beleive bergholt, that had it been you or a loved one, that was the target of some of the incredibly shocking lies and witch hunts earlier this year, all that were false....
That you'd be feeling rosey towards the media?
They have to take responsibility for their actions surely!
SainterK wrote:I cannot beleive bergholt, that had it been you or a loved one, that was the target of some of the incredibly shocking lies and witch hunts earlier this year, all that were false....
That you'd be feeling rosey towards the media?
They have to take responsibility for their actions surely!
"they"? who are "they"? the entire media gets tarred with a single brush because of the actions of a few?
bad things happen to good people. it's the way of the world. you have to play the hand you're dealt, and holding grudges rarely helps.
i believe we were pretty closed to the media before the duthie incident, and that didn't seem to stop it blowing up. maybe if we'd been more open and friendly to the media then we would have had avenues to tone down the story.
why do you think beams is rarely mentioned in connection with duthie? because collingwood have a great media team and work hard to keep strong relationships in that area. hence there are also twice as many positive collingwood stories as there are st kilda stories. it's hard work to run a media unit like that, but it's pretty well understood that it's effective.
on the other hand, running your PR activities in the same way as julia gillard will probably end with the same result.
SainterK wrote:I cannot beleive bergholt, that had it been you or a loved one, that was the target of some of the incredibly shocking lies and witch hunts earlier this year, all that were false....
That you'd be feeling rosey towards the media?
They have to take responsibility for their actions surely!
"they"? who are "they"? the entire media gets tarred with a single brush because of the actions of a few?
bad things happen to good people. it's the way of the world. you have to play the hand you're dealt, and holding grudges rarely helps.
i believe we were pretty closed to the media before the duthie incident, and that didn't seem to stop it blowing up. maybe if we'd been more open and friendly to the media then we would have had avenues to tone down the story.
why do you think beams is rarely mentioned in connection with duthie? because collingwood have a great media team and work hard to keep strong relationships in that area. hence there are also twice as many positive collingwood stories as there are st kilda stories. it's hard work to run a media unit like that, but it's pretty well understood that it's effective.
on the other hand, running your PR activities in the same way as julia gillard will probably end with the same result.
A few?
Be quicker to name those who didn't get involved in that story than those who didn't. Leading journo's, social commentators, everyone and anyone fired a shot.
If you need to refresh yourself of the gravity of the situation, google some of the names of players accused, click on news, and marvel at the rubbish.
I couldn't disagree more about Collingwood, it had more to do with their president and his ties than the club itself.
You are welcome to your opinion, but please don't be so aggressive towards those of us who choose to look at this differently to you.
I've not had any time for Connolly for some years now so the article and its tone surprised me not one bit. It's quite amazing though, how hypocritical this "merchant" (merchant-banker cockney rhyming slang for you-know-what) can be. I happened to be watching footage of the boys in the rooms after the win against North and this reptile was "interviewing" BJ for 3aw and looked more interested in getting home for his scoff than what was being said by the player, looking around and holding the microphone as if its the worst job on earth instead of the best! An anal-orifice of the highest order! Whenever I see him going round the boundary I ALWAYS give the bastard a serve!!!!
Both the J. Ralph article and R. Connolly article have real merit. They are talking about different issues facing the club in the immediate future.
I was once one of those people that jumped to the clubs defence when ever there was an article or report that showed St Kilda FC in a negative light. However we have to step back at times and see that our club is not always right in the way it handles things.
St Kilda people far too often take the 'victim' mentality and believe that people in the media are out to destroy our club.
Like or dislike him, Connolly stats some facts about our media policies and accessibility. Our club is known to be one of the hardest to deal with when it come to media requests. The club has done a great job with the youtube, facebook and twitter accounts but remember this is a controlled message that the club put out. It is not journalism in it truest form, it is digital 'Branding'.
As a result of our media polices our players see the media as the enemy. They are often defensive and uncomfortable when interviewed. It seems the only media our players like is controlled panel shows like The Footy Show, Game Day and Friday Night Football.
I for one would much rather see and hear open and honest interviews and newspaper articles than staged tv performances like that of The Footy Show.
Like it or not the media is a massive part of this game/industry. Without the coverage that TV, Radio and Newspapers provide this game would not be where it is today and players would not be getting paid what they are to be doing what they love.
Remain educated on the game, stay loyal to St.Kilda
Well said Trunch, like it or not, the club must step up in this area.
STRENGTH THROUGH LOYALTY.
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
Your work is usually admirable but this was an exceptionally poor effort. A whole article lambasting the Saints for its poor media skills that fails to acknowledge the appalling media standards during the "St Kilda Schoolgirl" and "ex-St Kilda player Andrew Lovett" scandals?
You draw a very long bow, too, in blaming the disappointing membership numbers on these supposed poor media skills. More likely it's got something to do with the slime smeared gleefully and unapologetically across the club during those aforementioned scandals.
Have a think about it.
Best
Waltzing St Kilda
Well said!
It is a wise policy to keep the media at arms length given the rubbish they have spewed forth about us over the last two years,
not to mention their double standards in regards to much worse incidents at other clubs.
Zac sneaks out of training camp for a glass of red at 9pm against team orders and it is the feature story for days.
Whilst the Bulldogs can run amok in Bangkok vandalising taxis and creating a public nuisance and it is a minor story for one day.
And I won't even mention Beams and Swann.
The rest of Australia can wander mask-free, socialise, eat out, no curfews, no zoning, no police rings of steel, no illogical inconsistent rules.
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
Trunch wrote:Both the J. Ralph article and R. Connolly article have real merit. They are talking about different issues facing the club in the immediate future.
I was once one of those people that jumped to the clubs defence when ever there was an article or report that showed St Kilda FC in a negative light. However we have to step back at times and see that our club is not always right in the way it handles things.
St Kilda people far too often take the 'victim' mentality and believe that people in the media are out to destroy our club.
Like or dislike him, Connolly stats some facts about our media policies and accessibility. Our club is known to be one of the hardest to deal with when it come to media requests. The club has done a great job with the youtube, facebook and twitter accounts but remember this is a controlled message that the club put out. It is not journalism in it truest form, it is digital 'Branding'.
As a result of our media polices our players see the media as the enemy. They are often defensive and uncomfortable when interviewed. It seems the only media our players like is controlled panel shows like The Footy Show, Game Day and Friday Night Football.
I for one would much rather see and hear open and honest interviews and newspaper articles than staged tv performances like that of The Footy Show.
Like it or not the media is a massive part of this game/industry. Without the coverage that TV, Radio and Newspapers provide this game would not be where it is today and players would not be getting paid what they are to be doing what they love.
Trunch, please make a proper distinction between "fact" and "opinion". Your comments about the Saints "media policy" ( if they have such a policy) and the way the players perceive the media is your view, its not fact. The fact is that the Saints did allow some members of the media into the rooms and they have reported on the speeches given by Ross and Lenny.
As for honest and open interviews concerning the Saints, they have been thin on the ground this year!
In my view the media coverage of the AFL is at saturation point. It is quite obvious that in a desperate attempt for attention some of the hacks are prepared to simply dish up the type of nonsense Rohan has churned out. Rather than constructive insightful measured comment, lazy hacks turn to gossip and garbage as it sells newspapers in the short term. They should remember that in the long run it diminishes their credability and leads to a disillusioned and jaded AFL fan base.
I don't think anyone can dispute though, that the club appears to like to keep everyone, including supporters at arm's length. Moreso than other clubs.
dcstkfc wrote:Well said Trunch, like it or not, the club must step up in this area.
Must it?
I understand the argument that the club cosying up to the media can be important in promoting the club positively.
However, the counter argument is that having an 'us versus them' mentality is often very successful in motivating teams. To some degree it is what the 'Saints bubble' was about..... a bees dick away from the ultimate success... If you look at say Alex Ferguson in the EPL, at times he has made it his business to be at odds with the media, or the FA.... doesn't seem to have harmed his club much.....
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
plugger66 wrote:Yep hate the media wanting to record the players getting a send off. Our supporters dont deserve to hear that rubbish.
i dont?
its a private matter between club/player...why do I need to "see" that?
what is this the Trueman Show?
I've never seen a media televised 'send-off', or in-rooms retirement announcement...obviously someone is making garbage up for a cheap shot at the club.
I think the Saints media circus hit its peak in late 2010 when a rookie listed player (Gaertner) decided he wasn’t cut out for the rigours and commitment of the AFL and decided to leave the club.
From all accounts SG spent 2011 enjoying himself at Dromana in the MPNFL.
However the media were in the grip of Duthie fever. And the HS in particular tried to spin his departure as evidence of something terrible happening down Seaford way:
"...If Gaertner is released, as expected, he will add to the exodus at Moorabbin in recent months.
The Saints parted ways with five assistant coaches for various reasons this year...."
“A MONTH after quitting St Kilda, Steven Gaertner has found a new football home at Dromana in the MPNFL.
The just-turned 21-year-old was chased by several suburban clubs, including Noble Park, after he stunned the football world by walking out on the Saints at the end of November…..â€
Can see the next thread on here being Baker doesnt get the media send off he deserves. Yes we got some bad press from some people in the media but what has that got to do with this. Do we stop them coming into our rooms forever. When do they get a second chance. Another thread will be in the next couple of years, why dont we get in the media anymore or saints membership drope below the dogs. Some people need to stop thinking we always the victim.
Trunch wrote:...Our club is known to be one of the hardest to deal with when it come to media requests. The club has done a great job with the youtube, facebook and twitter accounts but remember this is a controlled message that the club put out. It is not journalism in it truest form, it is digital 'Branding'...
True journalism?
That is an oxymoron these days.
Where was the true journalism during the KD affair?
Where has the true jounalism been for most of the year.
So is it true journalism to make stuff up when you can't get your story.
Over the past few years the level of journalistic integrity, and in general good journalism has gone to an all time low...
We are stooping to the levels of the british tabliods.
I don't blame them for being distrusting of the media... surely you haven't forgotten the circus that went on during the pre-saeson that sold alot of papers at the expense of our club....
Sorry to give this thread a bump, but I wanted to say that I disagreed with Rohan Connolly's point of view enough to email him, and I'm not in the habit of contacting journalists or newspapers. Only because what he did was dishonest and cynical.
After reading Pluggers POV, I agree that we are often paranoid and play the victim too readily.
I was also alarmed to read that Clarky believes that the club treats its members like s***, only because I believe he/she is a member of the Cheer squad, and if anyone should feel welcome and included (not bitter or jaded) it's members of the Cheer squad team that makes a lot of sacrifices to support our players week in, week out. The club definitely has to do something about that IMO.
I am sorry if you feel that the club has treated their members poorly, I tried only to speak for me rather than all of us. IMO, that isn't actually the point; Connolly wants total media access so he can get better stories, and he's dressing it up as concern for us to pressure the club.
Anyway, here's the letter, for what it's worth. I don't expect a reply or a retraction, or anything, I don't even know if he's read it, but I'm just glad to get it off my chest:
Mr Connolly,
Over the 15 years I've followed Aussie Rules I've come to see your writing as hard but usually fair, despite you having the occasional dig at my club St Kilda. I understand that your writing does not particularly reflect a bias for or against us, unlike that of a lot of people in your position. You may not be much chop in front of a camera but your writing is often informed and balanced.
However in your article Silent Saints risk more fans losing the faith from The Age September 12th, I feel that you have misrepresented our club's proud membership in order to rage against the club's media policy and make your job easier.
You did this at a period of emotional vulnerablity at the club, immdiately at the disappointing end to a disappointing season, not for any concern for a supporter base for which you've not previously shown much respect, not for any other reason than frustration with lack of material on which to do your work. So why not state that in the beginning? Why dress it up as a concern from within St Kilda's supporter community? It's the type of poorly-veiled swipes we're used to seeing from your less-accomplished rivals at The Herald Sun.
Everyone can understand that a journalist hired to write about the matches and politics of football must get annoyed when a club shuts out the media. I'd imagine you have the pressure of an editor who wants interesting stories for its football section. After a time in your profession, I also suppose that you'd feel that the public are desperate to read all about every facet of the sport, which must help to validate your role. It must be frustrating for you and the other sports writers who want to give the public 'what we want': but do we the public actually want it?
Your report implies that we do: What a pity for [the Saints supporters], then, that they were denied a window into what was a moving scene in the post-match rooms on Saturday night after St Kilda's season had ended at the hands of Sydney.
When members of the football media entered the rooms a few minutes after the players, they stumbled upon several Saints announcing their retirements to an army of family and friends, with heartfelt words from coach Ross Lyon and Lenny Hayes. It was great human interest stuff. But the media, and by extension the St Kilda fan base, would be allowed none of it...
...And so several hundred thousand St Kilda fans across the country missed out on sharing that touching and spontaneous scene.
There are two points to consider here: The media's crafty self-validating confusion between members of the press and the public, and the percieved demand for voyeuristic reporting, sorry; 'great human interest stuff'.
It's a valid cliche to think of a reporter forcing their way into someone's private life, telling that person that "the public wants to know". We know that the reporter wants to know, because the editor wants to know, even though niether of them personally mightn't care less. They are simply doing their jobs, because their boss demands that they get stories that they think will be popular. It's clear that the media are pro-active, not re-active in that you don't petition the public before deciding what to create stories about. This unfortunate obstacle necessitates the happy illusion that whatever you choose to be interested in is something that the public wants or even needs to know. It's a bold assumption and in some cases you must clearly know that it's dishonest.
It's not clear how much the public actually does want to know. The media has changed a lot since Reality Shows like Sylvania Waters started appearing on TV, and one thing that has increased is the amount of voyeurism into the nice and nasty moments of real lives. Ratings must have indicated that people were interested, as this type of 'warts and all' media production has steadily multiplied. For younger football fans, this is simply how the world is now and they expect it. But do they want it? I'm not sure. Some do, no doubt. Most people I know consume this information simply because it's in front of them, in the same way people watch dodgy TV programmes just because it's on when they are in front of the television. But would we actually seek it out and do we really care?
I have ridden every bump along the road of this occasionally inspiring but often painful season and despite having real hope that the Saints would do surprisingly well this finals series, I - along with all St Kilda fans - was let down. However that doesn't mean that I wanted particularly to watch the pain on the players and staff's faces and be a fly on the wall as players realised they'd crushed each other's dreams for another year and failed again. As soon as the match reached its disappointing conclusion, I wanted to get as far away from football as I could. I certainly didn't care to see the inevitable post-mortem, didn't want to read or hear the out-dated opinions of pundits pithily speculating that the club failed because it is St Kilda and that's just what we do. I've heard it all before, I know it's rubbish and I am not interested. After witnessing a horrible 12 months for the club, I'd assume most Saints fans like me just wanted to forget it and move on, on with their lives and onto a more promising St Kilda 2012.
I hear that some players announced their retir... their last game for the club to their teammates. I don't want to see that. We'll get all that at the B&F night, or in the coming weeks, but I don't have an immediate need right after the game to see the players faces as their mates leave their side. I don't want to go into the locker room and invade the privacy of the players who've tried their guts out for us. When it comes to the rooms, all I want to see is the singing of the song. The post-game interviews are of little interest.
I don't feel excluded from the club. I respect their rights to do certain things in private and I feel that the traditional avenues to a connection with the club; awards nights, open training sessions, AGMs, Club-produced media output and so on, along with the occasional article from yourself or your colleagues, are sufficient. I actually don't want the club to air it's dirty laundry in public, and the more exclusive the better as far as I'm concerned. Am I alone? Are the rest of my St Kilda supporter brethren more interested?
I checked the various Saints fan forums after I read your article and I read a few opinions that stated that they agree more with you, that they are disappointed with what they see as the club's exclusive attitude towards the members. Mostly though, I found that the majority of posters agreed with me that the club's no-media policy is fair enough and after the 'great human interest stuff' created by the media from the meat of our disasterous pre-season, most supporters are generally inside 'the bubble' with the club, coach and players.
However, not satisfied with claiming that the fans want to know, you went further beyond the pale and linked your personal disappointment to the fact that around 7500 Saints supporters didn't renew their membership at the start of the season, your article unforgivably implied that the reason for the drop-off was their club's attitude towards your profession, using your own interpretation of our CEO's media statement "We understand that membership must be a value-for-money proposition and our supporters want to live and breathe every game with the team." and you continued the same line in your closer: And perhaps they should ask some of those missing 7500 members what they think, too.
Maybe you should ask as well Mr Connolly, instead of tainting your fine career with such misguided assumptions. Since you didn't bother to ask, I'll just tell you. I am one of the 7500 supporters who were members previous to this year. I don't know if I'm typical, but I'll tell you why I didn't sign up this year, and it wasn't because I resent the club not letting you spy on the coach or players. My reasons were:
I found the lack of discipline from the players in the off-season alarming, and also found the club's public response to be ameteurish and embarrassing. I was angry at the club for the poor way they handled the Duthie, Ball and Lovett situations.
The fact that the major sponsor is a gambling company doesn't sit right with me as someone who has a family member with a past gambling addiction and who opposes the importance given to gambling in football and in general life.
Past membership packages contained too much stuff I didn't want, like second rate merchandise and useless vouchers and so on. I don't need more scarves, t-shirts, beanies, or useless plastic things that are gathering dust in my cupboard. I don't want anything except a membership card and perhaps a little badge to put on my old scarf.
I thought that the club has come a long way since the days when we struggled to get 20000 members and dare I say it, it's become a little complacent in the way they go about things. It was a temporary boycott to lodge my disapproval, I intended to sign up again for 2012 and I still will, barring further scandal and mismanagement. Perhaps my reasons aren't valid, but they are at least my reasons, and I am a lapsed member, so whether you agree or not, you can't deny that they are real.
I would speculate that some members didn't renew because they couldn't afford it. Or they were disappointed about losing 2 Grand Finals in a row. Or they died. Or they got sick of the changing rules and sanitisation of modern AFL and moved to rugby or something. But that's me speculating. I don't know really. Neither do you.
Your frustration is clear in these brief exerpts: The teammate, who does OK out of the media himself, dismissively shot back: "I'm not talking to journalists", and returned to his private conversation. That's fairly typical... We'll not name the two players, but seriously guys, are you still in sixth grade or something? Seriously? This is something I would expect to see from Mark Robinson or even Mike Sheehan, but you? It says a lot more about you than it does about the players, and nothing good.
You finally state your case near the end, trying to shoehorn in some class guilt. We, and far more importantly, your fans, just want to know who you are, what makes you tick, and share a little of the emotion and passion from the blokes they shell out good money to watch. Personally, I don't 'shell out good money' to see the pain on Brendon Goddard's face as he talks about another chance that got away, I pay to help my club grow strong, to get tickets for home games, and the opportunity to buy tickets to the Grand Final. I think a lot of supporters feel the same as me, not that you took the time to talk to any.
Look Mr Connolly, if you want to complain, complain to the club directly, but abusing your position as a feature writer for a leading media outlet to whine, hoping that the public would support you and then being brazen enough to link that to lapsed memberships is in very poor taste. We expect better from you in the future.
PS: I have copied this email to the St Kilda Football Club, to assure them of my actual reasons for not signing up in 2011 and that I approve of their media restrictions. Keep it in-house please, St Kilda!
Just My Opinion
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Reading that letter, I just noticed all the typos. Bloody hell. Gotta use Spell Check next time I write to anyone, especially a journalist. Nothing makes someone's point less valid than shoddy spelling or grammar.
Just My Opinion
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rohan, you are an arsehole and you certainly don't speak for me...all you pricks are interested in is the story..not what harm you f****** journos do along the way......no wonder the players don't want to talk to your kind....so f*** off....
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
BJ for 3aw and looked more interested in getting home for his scoff than what was being said by the player, looking around and holding the microphone as if its the worst job on earth instead of the best! 
( God help me)
