Why Benny Mac was a better pick than Cyril...

[Dr Spaceman]

No opinion either way on Rioli. But I will say that if some of Milne's goals of recent years -- like the one at the start of the third quarter last night -- had been kicked by Rioli, they would have hyped as the goal of the year.

Well it's not Milney's fault that he's undelicious

[saintly]

Big Ben is good for us, but the idea that we wouldn't have done better with Rioli is laughable. Think what his pace and unpredictability would have done for us!

We weren't looking for a player like Rioli and therefore weren't ever going to get him. Fair enough, and McEvoy looks like being exactly what we were looking for: perhaps better.

But Rioli is a superstar of the game: worth several Big Bens, I'm afraid.

agree Rioli will be a star, and worht more then Ben.

we needed a ruckman at theat time.

in the next year or two we will need small forwards

[MCG-Unit]

Would still take McEvoy over Rioli any day - and I've not always agreed with their draft picks.
Rioli is way overrated IMO, does a few flashy things then goes missing sometimes

[kosifantutti23]

heard a footy commentator say this morning that hawthorn's hopes for the premiership rest squarely on rioli's shoulders.....no-one's going to say that about ben...well not this year anyway.......i hope ben goes on to star....and captain the saints.....but is he in the same league as rioli..???...no....not at the moment

Probably because nobody rates us as a premiership contender. Our hopes do actually rest on the shoulders of our only ruckman.

[Armoooo]

I think a lot of people have been fooled by the commentators in this thread.

Cyril Rioli gets an uncontested handball and the commentators blow their load, McEvoy takes a pack mark from an opposition kick and it barely gets a mention... hell even Luke Darcy and several others have stated that he needs to work on his marking... considering he is currently the third best contested mark in the league I'm not sure how much more he can improve.

Ben McEvoy is a quality ruckman who will continue to improve, he is a great pack mark and he is fantastic around the ground, he is the ruckman that we have been crying out for for the best part of a decade. Cyril Rioli is just another indigenous small forward who is vastly overrated because he can pull off something fancy every now and again.

If we had drafted Cyril Rioli we would be having guys like Koschitzke, Blake and possibly even Gilbert competing in the ruck for us... Cyril would either be on the injury list or getting cold in the forward line because the ball sure as hell wouldn't be going down there.

Ben McEvoy also brings a level of leadership that Cyril will never provide, Ben is our captain in waiting and he has a professional attitude that is up there will Lenny and Roo. Cyril was the petulant child that refused to speak to any other club other than Essendon in the lead up to the draft.

How would you have felt if Cyril just ran out his contract with us and then demanded to go to Essendon.

Put yourself in our recruiters position, we have two ruckmen, both on the wrong side of 30. We have 2 quality small forwards, one 24 and the other 28 (estimates?). What do you consider to be the higher priority, the second best ruckman in the draft who has a great attitude and leadership qualities or the small forward who has basically said he doesn't want anything to do with your club.[/url]

[Spinner]

^ How'd you hear that essendon stuff??

[dalboy]

When we recruited Ben and ignored Rioli I did not understand it, as I had read where the Saints were interested in Cyril. However it is now obvious that we made the right choice, but we need to pick up a Cyril type too, as Milney wont last forever.

There's no reason Milney cant last forever!!

[The Linton Street Flash]

Cyril said...

[Hurricane]

I would take a workhourse over a show pony any day of the week

BANG BANG

[mad saint guy]

I think people are getting a bit carried away with the Cyril bashing here. On total value I agree that McEvoy will most likely give us more value over 12 or so years than Cyril, but that's not to say that both aren't very good players, it's mainly because a gun ruckman who matures quite early is incredibly hard to find. Commentators do blow their loads whenever Rioli goes near the footy but that's because he does do some genuinely brilliant stuff and can have a huge influence in a game of footy through 12 or so touches. He also has some off games and spends a bit of time on the injury list.

Keep in mind that Cyril was a key player in all 25 games of the premiership team in his first year of footy. I don't think Hawthorn will ever end up kicking themselves for selecting him at pick 13.

[Armoooo]

Keep in mind that Cyril was a key player in all 25 games of the premiership team in his first year of footy. I don't think Hawthorn will ever end up kicking themselves for selecting him at pick 13.

Fantastic point, even though I think that McEvoy is already the better player and the difference will continue to grow I think Hawthorn made the right decision for themselves.

As for the Essendon stuff about Cyril I heard him speak about it on sports tonight while he was doing the Kokoda trail with the Hawks in his first pre-season. It has also been covered in a couple of articles. He made it no secret Essendon was where he wanted to go and the bombers thought they would be able to take him with a later pick because of it.

[gringo]

Probably like comparing a sports car with a truck, each one suits it's task. Ben Mc glynn was pretty handy and got marched off possibly because of Squirrel Rioli who then seems injured more than he plays. He could be another x man the way he's going, more time sitting out each season than on the park. We had that many shitty retread ruckman we had to actually start developing some. That said I'd still like Zac Clarke or Bellchambers if they're available. They would be pretty handy back up rucks.

[kosifantutti23]

Keep in mind that Cyril was a key player in all 25 games of the premiership team in his first year of footy.

Really?

Averaged less than 1 goal and 14 disposals per game. What exactly did he do? Jason Gram kicked almost as many goals in 2008.

[Spinner]

Keep in mind that Cyril was a key player in all 25 games of the premiership team in his first year of footy.

Really?

Averaged less than 1 goal and 14 disposals per game. What exactly did he do? Jason Gram kicked almost as many goals in 2008.

First year player and filled a gap for them year one.

Rioli is miles ahead of McEvoy. Like it or not. Yes McEvoy is improving, yes we need him quite significantly at the moment.

Rioli is a gun in the competition. Those that don't rate him that highly don't watch him enough.

[meher baba]

Some of the posts on this thread give me a fit of the giggles. I'd love to see some of you guys among a bunch of neutrals at the pub trying to sustain the argument that Rioli does a few flashy things now and then, but is basically way overrated when compared to a genuinely top notch player like............Ben McEvoy

[Armoooo]

Some of the posts on this thread give me a fit of the giggles. I'd love to see some of you guys among a bunch of neutrals at the pub trying to sustain the argument that Rioli does a few flashy things now and then, but is basically way overrated when compared to a genuinely top notch player like............Ben McEvoy

I wouldn't just make this arguement about Ben McEvoy, I would make the same claims with Shane Mumford, Todd Goldstein and a couple of others too.

A quality ruck is far more important than a flashy small forward...

Anybody that questions how good Big Mac is needs to go and watch he last quarter from the first time we played North this season.

McEvoy has been a match winner this season.

[Spinner]

Some of the posts on this thread give me a fit of the giggles. I'd love to see some of you guys among a bunch of neutrals at the pub trying to sustain the argument that Rioli does a few flashy things now and then, but is basically way overrated when compared to a genuinely top notch player like............Ben McEvoy

I wouldn't just make this arguement about Ben McEvoy, I would make the same claims with Shane Mumford, Todd Goldstein and a couple of others too.

A quality ruck is far more important than a flashy small forward...

Anybody that questions how good Big Mac is needs to go and watch he last quarter from the first time we played North this season.

McEvoy has been a match winner this season.

Rioli has been a match winner for four years.

[Spinner]

Some of the posts on this thread give me a fit of the giggles. I'd love to see some of you guys among a bunch of neutrals at the pub trying to sustain the argument that Rioli does a few flashy things now and then, but is basically way overrated when compared to a genuinely top notch player like............Ben McEvoy

Correct.



Although Armooo I do agree wholeheartedly that the ruck is the moat influential position on the ground.

Has always believed it. It allows good midfields to become elite. It's a key ingredient. It's one on one, dominating the position is one thing. Preventing your team from being dominated in the ruck is just as beneficial.


But at the end of the day. Rioli in a heartbeat. At this stage. High hopes for McEvoy. Will be class.

[Armoooo]

Fair enough Spinner, although I disagree about just how much of a match winner Rioli has been in that time, out of interest if we were to have done a mid-season trade after round 8 of McEvoy for Rioli, do you believe that we would have made the finals?

Because IMHO we would have ended up bottom 4.

[kosifantutti23]

Keep in mind that Cyril was a key player in all 25 games of the premiership team in his first year of footy.

Really?

Averaged less than 1 goal and 14 disposals per game. What exactly did he do? Jason Gram kicked almost as many goals in 2008.

First year player and filled a gap for them year one.

Yes he filled a gap for them year 1 but you can't justify the statement that he was a key player in all 25 games based on 24 goals and less than 14 disposals per game.

[Spinner]

Keep in mind that Cyril was a key player in all 25 games of the premiership team in his first year of footy.

Really?

Averaged less than 1 goal and 14 disposals per game. What exactly did he do? Jason Gram kicked almost as many goals in 2008.

First year player and filled a gap for them year one.

Yes he filled a gap for them year 1 but you can't justify the statement that he was a key player in all 25 games based on 24 goals and less than 14 disposals per game.

I would suggest his input that year was ten times what they expected.

He had a key impact.

Watch some of his season instead of drawing out figures four years later.

[Eastern]

Big Ben is good for us, but the idea that we wouldn't have done better with Rioli is laughable. Think what his pace and unpredictability would have done for us!

We weren't looking for a player like Rioli and therefore weren't ever going to get him. Fair enough, and McEvoy looks like being exactly what we were looking for: perhaps better.

But Rioli is a superstar of the game: worth several Big Bens, I'm afraid.

agree Rioli will be a star, and worht more then Ben.

we needed a ruckman at theat time.

in the next year or two we will need small forwards

Cripps? Ledger? Stephen? The way the game is going small forwards also need to be midfielders and midfielders also need to be small forwards. Small forwards like Milney are a once in a generation !!

[PJ]

Can't really make comparisons between these 2 and it's pointless really.

[noreason41]

IMO, indigenous players (big generalisation; tend to get hyped up a lot more (Rioli, Tambling, Garlett, Betts, Davis, Davey, Wells etc) for the few standout things they can do in what would be an otherwise average performance.

[desertsaint]

just curious - as of now, would anyone take a straight swap - ben for cyril?
i wouldn't even consider it.