Why Benny Mac was a better pick than Cyril...

[kp83]

I know so many Saints (and Hawks) fans who keep saying that if we had got Cyril instead of Benny Mac we would have won a premiership in the last 2 years. Well, I've never believed this and now I'm even more of that belief. The reason being that Cyril, while brilliant, is injury prone. Multiple hamstrings and now a calf, which really is more of an older players injury are not good signs. And if you analyse the injuries he's had recently a bit deeper, it would show that he seems to get them after playing a game at Etihad the week before. Given that we play so many games there per year, I am convinced that he would have suffered from even more injuries than he has if he were a Saint.
Now I can't prove this and never will be able to but to the argument of "put him in the '09 or '10 granny and we would have won", I would say that he probably wouldn't have been available due to injury, or if he was he would have been underdone.
On the filp side, Benny has developed very well and is now easily our #1 ruckman. Imagine our team right now without him, really we would be relying on Kosi and Blake to ruck and getting smashed every week in the hitouts and lacking that around the ground prescence that Benny gives us.
Anyway, that's only my opinion and I could be wrong. I guess we'll never know...

[saint75]

If I was at the selection table, I would still pick Ben McEvoy hands down every time. Cyril plays 3-4 blistering games a year. The rest of the time he is injured or just a good AFL player. Fast talented mid fielders tend to be easier to source (or cover) than Key Position Players.

Interesting that Cyril was having his hamstrings worked on heavily during yesterdays game. Just cannot seem to get them right after their numerous injuries.

Macca has been absolutely fantastic this year. Gardiner and King have done wonders with him. His work around the ground has been fantastic this year. Can't think of many games this year where he has had his colours lowered.

[goodie]

No contest. We would be so screwed without Big Ben right now, he was and is exactly who we need.

[Junction Oval]

Benny for me too.

[Dan Warna]

top ruckmen are about as common as effective long term small forwards.

Milne spoken off as the best small forward since KB, thats impressive words.

[meher baba]

Big Ben is good for us, but the idea that we wouldn't have done better with Rioli is laughable. Think what his pace and unpredictability would have done for us!

We weren't looking for a player like Rioli and therefore weren't ever going to get him. Fair enough, and McEvoy looks like being exactly what we were looking for: perhaps better.

But Rioli is a superstar of the game: worth several Big Bens, I'm afraid.

[GrumpyOne]

Easy.... we had small forwards.... we needed rucks.

[Dan Warna]

Big Ben is good for us, but the idea that we wouldn't have done better with Rioli is laughable. Think what his pace and unpredictability would have done for us!

We weren't looking for a player like Rioli and therefore weren't ever going to get him. Fair enough, and McEvoy looks like being exactly what we were looking for: perhaps better.

But Rioli is a superstar of the game: worth several Big Bens, I'm afraid.

I would argue that Stephen Milne is better than Cyril Rioli and there wouldn't be room in the team for both of them.

[desertsaint]

rioli must be the most overrated player in the afl.
his best warrants the hype, but over a full season there are many, many players you'd have before him. if we were offered a swap - rioli for ben - we'd laugh it off.

[BigMart]

Rioli

Clearly the most overrated player in the game......a superstar that is no better than eddy betts, certainly has not produced the output of schnieder or milne....

Statistically he is no more than a handy player....as we speak, nathan brown just called rioli the best smal fwd over the last 4 years.....ffs

Rioli
15 disposals
1.2 goals
Schnieder
14 disposals
1.2 goals
Milne
12 disposals
2.1 goals
Stevie johnson
17.4 disposals
2.1 goals
Betts
12 disposals
1.5 goals
Lecras
13 disposals
2.4 goals

Plus didak, blair, ballantyne

Rioli is hugely overrated by everyone.....as long was as a player


He aint no superstar....

[Armoooo]

I often wonder how many people watch entire hawthorn games and not just the highlights. THe bloke very rarely strings a whole game together. From memory I wanted us to pick cyril going into the season but now I'm glad to admit that I was wrong. Ben will be a 250 plus gamer and captain our club. Rioli will always be overrated.

[SainterK]

If I compare the two, I notice a coach who nurtures young bodies, compared to a coach who didn't.

How many games Cyril missed through his hamstrings?

I love that he won't be rushed with them, Jack Steven is also great proof of this, eased him into it this year given his body (TOG) and reaping the rewards of sustained form.

[plugger66]

Ben is better for us now but lets be honest, Cyril certainly couldnt have been worse than Ben in the 2 close GF's because Ben didnt play and Cyril could have certainly been worth a goal or two which may have won us one or maybe 2 GF's. If it is about who would be better for us I would say Cyril because it isnt as if we win many GF's. Anyway it is hinsight crap. Ben is going to be a great ruckman.

[BigMart]

He would have been at sandy doing his apprentiship....whilst schnieds and milney were the small fwds......or he would have been used as a defensive fwd....maybe turned into a dour runwith role player....

[plugger66]

He would have been at sandy doing his apprentiship....whilst schnieds and milney were the small fwds......or he would have been used as a defensive fwd....maybe turned into a dour runwith role player....

Thats the spirit. Consistant. Always taking pot shots.

[Thinline]

Easy.... we had small forwards.... we needed rucks.

Absolutely.

It's a pretty inane argument, as it always is with hindsight draft selecting.

[goodie]

That was also the year we picked up Schneider and Dempster. Whether or not you think Rioli is better than Schneider, he's not better than the pair.

For anyone who hasn't read Emma Quayle's The Draft (you should), our selections were influenced by trading. We could've gone one of two ways:

1. Draft Big Ben and trade our second round pick for Schneider & Dempster
2. Draft Jack Grimes and Dawson Simpson

Grimes is great, but has only managed 32 games in four seasons. Simpson's still something of an unknown quality, jostling with some pretty decent competition at Geelong.

Either way, Rioli wasn't on our radar. I'd say it worked out for the best.

[borderbarry]

When we recruited Ben and ignored Rioli I did not understand it, as I had read where the Saints were interested in Cyril. However it is now obvious that we made the right choice, but we need to pick up a Cyril type too, as Milney wont last forever.

[saintdooley]

whoever agrees is on drugs.

[stinger]

rioli must be the most overrated player in the afl.
his best warrants the hype, but over a full season there are many, many players you'd have before him. if we were offered a swap - rioli for ben - we'd laugh it off.

heard a footy commentator say this morning that hawthorn's hopes for the premiership rest squarely on rioli's shoulders.....no-one's going to say that about ben...well not this year anyway.......i hope ben goes on to star....and captain the saints.....but is he in the same league as rioli..???...no....not at the moment

[Dan Warna]

rioli must be the most overrated player in the afl.
his best warrants the hype, but over a full season there are many, many players you'd have before him. if we were offered a swap - rioli for ben - we'd laugh it off.

heard a footy commentator say this morning that hawthorn's hopes for the premiership rest squarely on rioli's shoulders.....no-one's going to say that about ben...well not this year anyway.......i hope ben goes on to star....and captain the saints.....but is he in the same league as rioli..???...no....not at the moment

well given riolo's form, you could say the same about schneider for the saints...

[Waltzing St Kilda]

No opinion either way on Rioli. But I will say that if some of Milne's goals of recent years -- like the one at the start of the third quarter last night -- had been kicked by Rioli, they would have hyped as the goal of the year.

[desertsaint]

rioli must be the most overrated player in the afl.
his best warrants the hype, but over a full season there are many, many players you'd have before him. if we were offered a swap - rioli for ben - we'd laugh it off.

heard a footy commentator say this morning that hawthorn's hopes for the premiership rest squarely on rioli's shoulders.....no-one's going to say that about ben...well not this year anyway.......i hope ben goes on to star....and captain the saints.....but is he in the same league as rioli..???...no....not at the moment

that's the type of media hype typical of rioli. i would read it as - if rioli plays to his utmost potential in every final, as opposed to his general inconsistency, they have a chance.
would agree ben isn't quite in his league yet, but as you say - at the moment. over their careers i reckon mac will have him covered.

[Dan Warna]

No opinion either way on Rioli. But I will say that if some of Milne's goals of recent years -- like the one at the start of the third quarter last night -- had been kicked by Rioli, they would have hyped as the goal of the year.

I think great players set a standard by which they themselves are judged.

Lockett and Dunstall rarely got brownlow votes or media votes for kicking 8/9/10/11/12 goals

OTHER full forwards used to get 1,2 or 3 votes for kicking 5s and 6s.

Robert Harvey/greg Williams would get 30 possession and it would be discussed as an ordinary game by them. Other midfielders who got 25 possessions would be raved about.

What Milne does is consistency, he's scored at least one goal in 4/5s of every game he's played in. Its actually quite rare that he goes a game without at least 1 goal.

Go back through his highlights reel and its a pretty stunning collection and comparable with any other player.

Sadly for him, he just keeps on contributing between 35 and 60 every year for a decade and doesn't do 1 year of 60 goals intermingled with 8 years of rubbish, hence doesn't stand out from the crowd.

Phil Matera suffered from this, an outstanding player as well, that any time he scored less than 3 goals was considered a win for the defensive team.

[spert]

Looks like Hawthorn should trade off Rioli as he is such an ordinary player!