wow you are going to slice 10 out 38 and expect miracles....
Blake, good solid utility, one of the top GOPs of the competition.
Eddy, finished already? looks ok?
end of the year we will probably cut and cut relatively hard
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Big Mac is twenty one and with any luck has a decade of good footy left in him. Roo hopefully will play another 5 years. Kosi may not make more than 1 or 2 more.defacto wrote: Johnson and Stanley would be safe as houses you would think. Given they are big blokes we are developing to replace our aging spine.
IMO Johnson is not tall or good enough to develop into a KPP, and Stanley simply will not be good enough. Walsh has far more potential than either of these two.
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
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mad saint guy
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Gardiner
Baker
Heyne
Cahill
McQualter
Johnson
That's my guess. It's not my preference, but that's what I think will happen. Two make way for rookie promotions and four draft picks. Stanley, Smith and Blake will be under some pressure but I think they've all got enough upside to stay. The fact that Johnson is mature aged and in good form yet not getting games suggests he's not part of thr plan.
Baker
Heyne
Cahill
McQualter
Johnson
That's my guess. It's not my preference, but that's what I think will happen. Two make way for rookie promotions and four draft picks. Stanley, Smith and Blake will be under some pressure but I think they've all got enough upside to stay. The fact that Johnson is mature aged and in good form yet not getting games suggests he's not part of thr plan.
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Saintersss
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Not the year to do the big cleanout.
Reasons being that it is a weakish draft, a comprosied draft due to GWS and the Saints probably have one more shot at a top four position next year.
Cleanout should probably be done next year where the draft is no longer compromised, it's a stong draft and the core of the current team will just about be done.
Reasons being that it is a weakish draft, a comprosied draft due to GWS and the Saints probably have one more shot at a top four position next year.
Cleanout should probably be done next year where the draft is no longer compromised, it's a stong draft and the core of the current team will just about be done.
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bigcarl
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Re: end of the year we will probably cut and cut relatively
Nope, that is what Ross actually said.
he also said it again today on SEN
and his quote was in the papers today
May be trying to fire the whole list up for a big finish to the season.
Yes, we'll cut, that's the nature of the competition. But I hope we do it judiciously and wisely.
Blake, for example, has another good year in him IMO. Very good, versatile, experienced clubman over nearly a decade and you've got to ask, would we get the same output from a kid?
No sense in throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Ross has been criticised for his loyalty to certain players, Raph or Zac for example.
Is this a weakness or is the stability it gives the club one of his great strengths?
People tend to produce their best when they feel secure, but it is a two-edged sword as competition for places is also important. So it is a delicate balancing act.
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gringo
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I think he is firing up his team. Otherwise he is having a go at Pelchen's role to clean up the list by trying to get the fans pissed about losing guys he rates. GT thought he wouldn't cope with the control being removed from list management. Most of us would think that 4 or 5 guys are gone or borderline and I can't imagine more than that unless we really drop our bundle in the finals.
agreed.Saintersss wrote:Not the year to do the big cleanout.
Reasons being that it is a weakish draft, a comprosied draft due to GWS and the Saints probably have one more shot at a top four position next year.
Cleanout should probably be done next year where the draft is no longer compromised, it's a stong draft and the core of the current team will just about be done.
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InkerSaint
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Whatever "control" Pelchen has was negotiated with Lyon on his entry into the role. Pelchen is there to support the coaching team, and Lyon isn't the Machiavellian type.gringo wrote:I think he is firing up his team. Otherwise he is having a go at Pelchen's role to clean up the list by trying to get the fans pissed about losing guys he rates. GT thought he wouldn't cope with the control being removed from list management. Most of us would think that 4 or 5 guys are gone or borderline and I can't imagine more than that unless we really drop our bundle in the finals.
How many did we cut last year? I think it was 4.
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To the top
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Those with question marks due to age are Baker, Gardiner, Blake, Hayes and Milne.
Those who I would suspect Lyon's comments are directed to are those who are playing for their careers over the last month of the AFL/ VFL competition being Geary, Gamble, Lynch, McQualter, Walsh, Eddy, Heyne and Archer.
Bear in mind that the coaching panel also sees training performances and that, past that, Sandringham have only a couple of weeks to go so many of these players will not have an on-ground opportunity to impress - plus the performances of Sandringham, whilst blighted by injury accross our younger players, are ordinary at best.
What none on here seem to quote is the other side of what Lyon said - that the club have every expectation that Sippos, Cripps and Ledger will feature consistently at AFL level next season.
So, from our current 22, 3 have to go to make way for them.
Plus we have the recovering Hayes and Gwilt.
And I would be pleading with Gardiner to give one last effort in support of the still emerging McEvoy and the developing Stanley who may not evolve as a ruckman anyway because his only rucking credential currently is his height.
Stanley could play anywhere but ruck.
So, if you put Gardiner in, there are 6 changes accross 22 players in 2012.
That is a nearly 30% change in personnel.
And that is massive.
So, who goes?
Those continuing to mention the likes of Koschitzke, Clarke and Gram have rocks in their heads.
Plus, as I have said before, we are about forming our next spine at VFL level - which may survive Archer if his desire is there and will survive the likes of Cahill, Stanley and Johnson.
For example, Cahill, at 20, has a mid-fielder's weight on 192cm - and has had injury this year and that will be taken into consideration along with his desire.
He needs another 10kg to play the role he will be looked at to play over the next 2/3 years and onwards.
All of these type considerations will go into the assessments.
Those who I would suspect Lyon's comments are directed to are those who are playing for their careers over the last month of the AFL/ VFL competition being Geary, Gamble, Lynch, McQualter, Walsh, Eddy, Heyne and Archer.
Bear in mind that the coaching panel also sees training performances and that, past that, Sandringham have only a couple of weeks to go so many of these players will not have an on-ground opportunity to impress - plus the performances of Sandringham, whilst blighted by injury accross our younger players, are ordinary at best.
What none on here seem to quote is the other side of what Lyon said - that the club have every expectation that Sippos, Cripps and Ledger will feature consistently at AFL level next season.
So, from our current 22, 3 have to go to make way for them.
Plus we have the recovering Hayes and Gwilt.
And I would be pleading with Gardiner to give one last effort in support of the still emerging McEvoy and the developing Stanley who may not evolve as a ruckman anyway because his only rucking credential currently is his height.
Stanley could play anywhere but ruck.
So, if you put Gardiner in, there are 6 changes accross 22 players in 2012.
That is a nearly 30% change in personnel.
And that is massive.
So, who goes?
Those continuing to mention the likes of Koschitzke, Clarke and Gram have rocks in their heads.
Plus, as I have said before, we are about forming our next spine at VFL level - which may survive Archer if his desire is there and will survive the likes of Cahill, Stanley and Johnson.
For example, Cahill, at 20, has a mid-fielder's weight on 192cm - and has had injury this year and that will be taken into consideration along with his desire.
He needs another 10kg to play the role he will be looked at to play over the next 2/3 years and onwards.
All of these type considerations will go into the assessments.
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desertsaint
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need gardiner next year - hopefully the long lay off will freshen him for 2012. will play a support role for ben, on and off field.
blake is clearly good enough to go again, and if we're genuinely aimng for 2012 we want him available. if someone goes past him during the year all the better, but we still have him for depth.
baker - hard one to call. back up if dempster gets injured? could still be a handy backup and seems to be a clubman that lifts morale.
eddy, cahill, mini, heyne, stanley, smith, johnson - don't look like offering the same across the board as the three stalwarts above.
blake is clearly good enough to go again, and if we're genuinely aimng for 2012 we want him available. if someone goes past him during the year all the better, but we still have him for depth.
baker - hard one to call. back up if dempster gets injured? could still be a handy backup and seems to be a clubman that lifts morale.
eddy, cahill, mini, heyne, stanley, smith, johnson - don't look like offering the same across the board as the three stalwarts above.
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
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InkerSaint
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You'd think the criteria are under 25, over 192cm and already showing some promise.
Mitch Clark is the ideal candidate, but when you consider the likelihood that we'll be aggressive in the draft I can't see how we'd get a trade over the line.
Jesse White is apparently on the outer at Sydney, and if they think going to a new club will help get his development back on track he'd have to be a strong chance.
Other than that I think it's a long shot, and I doubt it will happen this year. They may end up relying on Kosi for a late revival plus a Johnson or Walsh to emerge.
Mitch Clark is the ideal candidate, but when you consider the likelihood that we'll be aggressive in the draft I can't see how we'd get a trade over the line.
Jesse White is apparently on the outer at Sydney, and if they think going to a new club will help get his development back on track he'd have to be a strong chance.
Other than that I think it's a long shot, and I doubt it will happen this year. They may end up relying on Kosi for a late revival plus a Johnson or Walsh to emerge.